kb6jra

jwall, welcome to the forum.

After reading what you've posted and taking your tone and emotion I'd suggest taking the advice of It's Me and "Just Leave".

By taking the position that the SM needs to go, or change his ways for that matter, you and others have obviously caused him to dig in his heels. We can all be stubborn, I'm no exception, and if given no room to wiggle, I will push back or at least hold my ground. This is what's popped out at me with what you've posted about your current SM. No finger pointing, that's just human nature.

Scouting is PHUN, never forget that, and when you stop having PHUN, you're not going to get the true message from the program. Neither is your son. No matter how much you try to hide your issues with these other adults, the kids are not blind and know what's going on. Find a troop you're happy with, make the move and begin to love Scouting again. Don't feel alone either, this is really more common than we like to think.

Good luck

Wow, great idea, I'm stealing it officially.

My council is in So Cal and I've been asked to chair a Council Committee directing our 2010 celebration efforts. The "big party" for the 100th anniversay is supposed to happen in February of 2010, with festivities culminating in the 2010 Jambo. This idea of a Rose Parade float would be awesome. I would bet we could get many volunteers to help decorate. San Gabriel Valley Council would be the home turf of this event.

Maybe have some youth who've been awarded Heroism or Valor medals ride it, wow there's a ton of potential. Great idea troutmaster!

As for the band, I doubt Nat'l would pay for any part of that, it's just not the way things are done IMO. I think ASM915 has it right, paying for a Nat'l band's travel would be much cheaper than prime time advertising, however good PR folks can get all the exposure you're willing to handle for a price as well.

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if I am doubling someones info or suggestions.

My troop is primarily a backpacking troop. Whether we hike for 1 mile or 10, the basics are always covered. Food is planned, purchased, prepared and packed by the scouts.

That sounds easy, but it takes a good year or so for them to get to that point. We will allow a campout where hamburger helper is the main course, but that patrol will not be able to use that crutch for the next outing. Instant oatmeal is a wonderful thing and we support it, but we also love to show them what our homemade version of instant oatmeal is and how good it tastes.

First campout they car camp and learn what we do. A patrol of more experienced scouts helps set thier camp up, shows them how to cook, clean and play. Gives them pointers on how to hike which includes trail etiquite, leave no trace, and trail safety (big one for us). We teach rudimentary orienteering right off the bat, and then we teach "how to get lost" from day one.

Before the second campout, the boys and thier parents get to go shopping for thier food, after they've planned a menu that has been approved by the SPL and the SM. They then head over to my home, I have a very large kitchen, and I demonstrate, with some help from other troop members, how to prepare the food, how to dehydrate in my oven, how to pack each meal to minimize trash and waste, etc.

For the third outing, the parents help the boys to shop and to prepare/package the food.

We also have a meal system or menu system, where they can easily fill out a form to get the proper amounts of food for each person for each day of camping, this also translates into a pretty comprehensive shopping list. We don't believe in re-inventing the wheel here. There are tons of books on backpaking food and nutrition, and we've compiled this info into guidelines for the boys to use. I can email a copy of what we do if you're interested, just pm me.

We give the patrols a "cook book" loaded with nice meals that meet our nutritional needs. We also have a library of the books on back packing meals that they can experiment with. Sometimes we have a competition at a troop meeting where the patrols get to cook against each other with a new or secret recipe. It's a lot of fun, and usually edible (although there have been some exceptions).

By the time the boys are old and strong enough to go on a week long HA trip, they've almost mastered back country cooking and menu planning. "One less thing..." as Forest Gump would say.

I haven't heard anyone discuss the merits of the BSA's new move to make all incoming AOL earning Webelos instant Tenderfoot Scouts. What do you see as pros and cons to this new policy?

LOL, Eamonn, you're killin me...

I was asked to do this at a pack meeting. I was visiting as an FOS presenter, along with another SM from a troop taking some boys. Very awkward to say the least. I was in what I would consider a very full uniform, but what my troop considers proper uniforming and what the other SM's troop does has nothing to do with what the CM and his pack consider full or proper uniform.

That was the only time it happened and I hope it doesn't happen again.

Once an Arrowman, always an Arrowman. All that is required is current registration in the BSA and current dues with the lodge.

For the sake of argument, if you were a member of a LFL group, and you wanted to be active in your lodge, then you would need to register either with a unit or at large with the district in order to be elegible as a memeber of the chapter/lodge. After that it's all about paying your lodge dues and get to serving.

What to look for eh?

This is what I told my WII parents before we started the hunt.

As far as a parent goes, look for the following:

1. Trained leaders (plural). very important, if the leaders are trained they are sold on the program and have invested in your son's future in Scouting. Make sure there are enough of them to get the job done WITHOUT YOU. Nobody should join a unit and be expected to thrust into a top job right away, assimilation takes time.

2. Financial solvency. Don't jump onto a sinking ship, I did this once and did not enjoy it. Your son won't enjoy it either.

3. Patrol Method in use. Boy Run, Boy Led. If you don't see this, RUN!. You've had a Webelos in your home for 2 years, that's quite enough time. Now get him into Scouts, not Webelos III.

4. Inclusive youth and adults. The culture of a troop will show itself the first time you visit. Are the adults inclusive, or do they want you to drop and run and leaving the driving to them. Are the youth inclusive of the new boys? Your son will be able to tell you from day 1 whether or not he liked the new unit. First impressions are important and will stick with a kid for a long time.

5. Active in the outdoors. What is the outdoor program like for this unit? How often do they camp? Do they go to Summer Camp every year? do they have any high adventure program? do they attend Camporees and other council/district events? Look for a unit that is active in all of these areas, offering a diverse program for your boy.

6. Active in the Council/District. Is the unit acitive in the council and or District. Do they support the DE or DD, either by being represented on the District Committee or by providing leadership to District or Council events? This is important as well. The job is easier if we all take a piece of the workload. A strong District Committee means an awesome program for the units in it.

most of all, does your son like the troop? Has he made any comments negatively like "Those boys were mean to us, they don't want us little kids joining the troop". Warning signs here, happenend to us, that's why we ended up in the troop we're in. My son told me he felt welcome in our troop and wanted to join it. It fit all of my other criteria, so joined it we did and never regretted the decision.

Visit at least 3 units, you can get a short list from your DE or UC. You can join as a full den into a patrol, or you can all go individually. Both have thier pros and cons. Good luck and happy hunting.

When BSA changed the training continuum at the turn of the Century, they moved outdoor leader skills to job specific and appropriate levels, that is to say, Cub Leaders needs in the area of outdoor leadership skills are different than Boy Scout Leaders needs, Venturing Leaders needs, etc...

Wood Badge today is a viable, effective adult leadership traning course, intensive in it's approach and application, that helps All Leaders in Scouting understand Team Building and it's phases, Communications and it's importance, and the Values, Mission and Vision of the Boy Scouts of America. There are a few other things tossed in there as well, but that's the gist.

We use the Patrol method during the course because...quite frankly it works. It's been working for nearly 100 years, and will continue to work well beyond our years to come. It's not a way to segregate the Boy Scout program folks from the Cub Scouters, from the Venturers, it just works to promote team building and leadership.

I laugh every time I hear or read the comments that the old course is better than the new course, the new course is better than the old...give me a break. Who are we trying to impress here. Why is it so important to break down what we don't have or won't accept. It's silly really.

Why is it required to have taken the WB21C in order to serve on staff? The course has changed, and to a degree that if you haven't been exposed to it, you'll need to be immersed in it before you can properly teach it. That's all, no mention of "your course wasn't good enough" or "those beads mean nothing". Just that if you're going to be an effective trainer, you should at a minimum be familiar with the content, and attending the course is a pretty effective way of becoming familiar IMHO.

What about the changes coming in the next year or two. What about when we get rid of Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing, and move on to EDGE? That's actually a big change in the team building paradigm.

And what about those beads you (me) all hold so dear? Did you know that within the next year that Adult NYLT staffers will be awarded a 3rd bead if they've been through WB previously? Will that cause some of us 3 and 4 beaders to give them the 'ol heave ho?

Change is innevitable, and we train our new leaders to accept it and use it to your advantage. I just wish we would take our own advice from time to time and embrace change as a gift.

oh, and SMeagle819, IMHO you would enjoy Wood Badge, you would have much to offer the course and it would have much to offer you. It's really up to you if you would like to listen to the "stuck up folks" regarding what Wood Badge means, it is a mark of distinction individually, not collectivly. The ticket you write is yours alone, and only you can work it. I would recommend you take the course and work your ticket. I know you won't regret it.

We make 'em pay up front 2 weeks in advance, no refunds w/o reasonable excuse and notice.

I've got one kid that does this often enough that I summed up his "failures to appear" to his father one night and what it had cost him. That ended his excuses for a time. He's still a flake unfortunately, and probably will be for the rest of his life, I just cannot seem to get accross to him that he's responsible or needs to try and be responsible for his commitments.

#45 Distinguished Eagle Scout? thought there was a knot for this as well...

Wow, this reminds me of a Spanish language Novella...it's got all the twist and turns, just no commercials.

I just read this whole thread and found it very entertaining at least. I'm saddened at the thougth of having to sue a BSA Council of what seems to be an expected entitlement. I'm sure there's much more to this whole magilla, I just can't imagine the drama in Florida...

Nic,

I counted my Tiger leader year because I had registered as the Tiger Coach, then Tom Sawyered it to one of the moms...pretty slick move actually. I think the only way they have of verifying the veteran tenure is paid registerd years, and since Tiger parernts are not required to register per se, they're not on the books. I'm not sure whether I agree with that or not, since I'm not adversly affected by it, but I can understand the dilema of the registrar on this.

It means you'll need to suck up that one year and "make it up" later down the road. Look at it this way, at least you'll probably have fun doing it...

Merry Christmas

Get well soon Jambo

I personally don't mind paying my own way, but we don't charge the full course fee, only what is necessary to provide meals and such to the participants. the Participants pay the full fee that includes all materials and the licensing fees. Everyone pays for thier own pictures and other personal items and consumables. Our staff fees last year were $100 / staffer for the course and pre-course.

Our participants fees were $235 (if paid by the 30 day mark)

For Recruiting, our last course, and probably this next one I'm on will follow this model.

Assign recruiting assignments to each staffer, and require them to personally recruit at least two participants. We all attend Roundtables, trainings, and other various events in our districts and councils. We're asked to "spread the word" about our two courses and try and fill them both. last year our Spring staff filled our course, had a long waiting list and 1/2 filled the Fall course. Both courses ended up being full w/ the fall course having 44 of the 48 actually show up, Spring had 48/48 show up to camp. That was a great turnout.

Each staffer is assigned at least two potential participants from the earliest time. We're buddied up with the participants, in fact we're called the Wood Badge Buddies, and we call them, email them and contact them to get them used to us and answer all of thier questions. Most questions are centered around the tickets, but we give them general info as well. We also make sure they're caught up on thier payments, we remind them that at the 30 day mark before course if we have participants that are not fully paid and fully paid persons on the waiting list, they get swapped. We had 48 paid participants at 30 days. Our Fall course experienced the same.

We send representatives to all functions and develope a list of those interested in attending, and we send invites to those that completed recently leader specific courses.

Good luck and have fun on course.

not mine

California Inland Empire Council (CIEC)

At least not as a council. Each district has more autonomy than they probably need, so who knows what other districts are requiring.

Typically you count the time registered in units for the Veterans award. Since "active" is a nebulous term, and back in the day cub scouts NEVER did any cubbing in the summer, registration is the only constant.

working on my 30 year pin myself.

This question came up at our recent Venture Crew meeting. One of the VP's was not attending or doing his job. The crew asked to replace his in his job. I asked that they communicate their issues with this person and ask him to step up or step back, it was his move to make as I saw it. He chose to step back and let someone else take a crack at it.

A few years ago we had an SPL in the troop that did a horrible job, and as far as we could tell it was purposefully done that way to insight the adults and his parents. He'd show up to the meetings with a hooded sweatshirt on, leave the hood up, with earphones in his ears, the earphones were connected to his cell phone, he was talking to his "friends" during the meeting when he was supposed to be leading. He was asked several times to step up to the plate. He just never did. When we made a move to remove him, that's when his parents came forward to defend him, blaming his attitude and problems on us adult leaders instead of what ever the real issues were.

Since this was the first time we'd had an issue like this, the PLC decided they'd take on the responsibility and would ask the scout to step down if it ever happened again. Not likely it would happen in their time, but nice that they see a problem and want to take care of it.

Yearly Training is a minimum I would think.

I've staffed our area's SM/ASM Specific for the last 4 years. We've held it 2 times a year since then and we've always filled our course. I say area because originally it was a council-wide training event, now it's considered a district wide event. We still fill it twice a year.

My District offers Cub Leader specific every other month from September through May. They get 20 people on average every course. Council has a High Adventure Team training program that repeats at a minimum every year; usually courses are offered twice yearly. NLE, YPT, SA/SSD, Fast start, Dist Com training..all available online.

In my district and council there really is not a good excuse against mandatory training, at least the frequency of training offered can't be used as one.

Congrats!

Everyone looks good in beads!

Matt

WE4-51-2-03

I used to be a Bear...

I''ve received the DAM and know what that recognition means to me, and have submitted a nomination for a husband/wife team last year. Both were accepted and I was asked to make the presentation. As often as I need to get up in front of groups, I was so nervous...I hated it honestly.

I was very pleased that my nominees were accepted on my recommendation. It''s humbling to think that my opinion would have been worth so much, but apparantly it was...

This year I''m on the selection committee for the DAM. We have 6 to give out, hopeing to give out all 6. Giving recognition is a wonderful thing.

Congrats Slouchhat,

Starting a new unit, regardless of where you are in the world, is a big enterprise. Good luck and have fun, or as we spell it in our district, PHUN!

By the way, love the blog, too bad I can''t read it...LOL

Would anyone consider this thread as being officially hijacked?

Me too!

By the way, Global warming probably is a fact, not absolutely sure, but I don''t always agree as to the real cause, whether it be green house gasses or part of a natural cycle of climate change. For the fiction reader in us all, great book by Michael Crichton - State of Fear. I recommend it to both sides of the argument...

I thought I could edit my last post, but apparantly not...

I wanted to add to those really against the idea, almost every other organization that serves youth REQUIRES training of some level. Take AYSO for example, probably close in size to BSA, they require each coach to attend a mandatory 2 day training EVERY YEAR or they don''t coach. I''ve been told that its a once is enough kinda training, but they require it of all adults, every year, end of story.

Little League requires training sessions of their adults EVERY YEAR. Pop Warner, City wide basketball..all require training, why are we so different? I think it''s a decent policy if administered correctly. We have expecatations of our youth for Rank advancement, there ought to be some expectations of the adults as well...

Our troop doesn''t own a single tent, we require boys under rank of first class to tarp camp. We provide the tarps. In the past the troop tents have always been torn, broken, etc and required maintenance and lots of money to keep working. Now with tarps, the boys enjoy camping just as much, learn a great skill (creating a shelter with minimal materials) and have a very good appreciation for tents once they''re allowed to have one in the troop. We encourage families to give tents as gifts to those boys that reach 1st class or higher.

Downside, none of the tents are the same, but that''s ok, the only time that comes up is when we''re at camporee. Our troop looks weird next to one that car camps all the time and has troop issued equipment. Our kids get a kick out of it.