kb6jra

Probably a local tradition, which is A-OK in my book. I love local traditions. I staffed for the first time last spring and our local tradition is that every staff member give a gift to each other. We ended up walking away with a LOT of mementos. I'm already working on my gift for next year.

Why is it a Marlin Spike knife? Easy splicing? I'm curious.

CRW, the problem with events of the troop and lodge intersecting is easy. The OA asks each member to honor his commitment to his unit first, lodge second. The OA enhances the Unit's program, it doesn't take away from it.

I hope your son finds an amicable solution to this. He should at least try for dispensation for him and the others affected by the lack of communications.

Regarding keeping the election a secret. It's a wonderful thing to see the face of a boy that is honored without warning. Since your son makes all of the outings, and the call-out was to happen at an outing, the SM was probably just excited to see the look on the boys faces when they were tapped out.

If he's only 14 I wouldn't sweat it too much if the extraordinary plans fall through. Next year just be prepared with the ordeal dates in advance, as stated earlier it's public info usually on the council's calendar.

Good luck

Welcome Tommy, plop down, join in and have fun.

Matt

I used to be a Bear...

WE4-51-2-03

1. Troop stuff. Meetings, full field uniform w/ pants, switchbacks, or shorts (mostly shorts), thorlo socks, hiking boots, beads, leather belt and buckle (wb). Camp in activity "b" only, travel in field uniform. No troop hat, prefer wide brimmed straw to protect from sun. Have troop jacket, nylon green w/ troop logo. Have Jackshirt as well, usually too heavy for So Cal.

2. District/council. Full uniform as above, for formal events have nicer uniform (own 4). When at WB functions, wear WB necker with collar turned under (to honor those that came before us).

3. Venturing, new crew still can't make up it's mind about what uniform they want, so I'm i a holding pattern.

4. OA. Full uniform, sash and necklace.

Used to have the knee socks w/ garters and tabs...still do actually. I have extradinarliy humongous calves, so they worked well for me. I use the thorlo hikers now, no need to wear knee socks.

Good luck and have fun, One of the things that really stuck in my mind this last course I was on.

One of my patrol members, he was a Beaver after all, read in the equipment list that he needed a "camp chair". He thought this meant a "backpacking chair" and brought a very small, very uncomfortable tripod arrangement. That lasted about 2 hours. I loaned him my chair (padded directors chair from Costco) and he enjoyed the rest of the first weekend.

I brought 2 chairs. 1 for my tent/cabin and one for classes. That beats hauling a chair around everywhere, believe me. The stadium seat is an excellent idea, especially for campfires and gatherings in an amphitheater setting. Flag making material might not be on your list, but you should be prepared. Cup or mug for coffee and water during presentations. 1Q Nalgene works well too, but sometimes a cup is needed.

John's correct, for Eagle, the boy must have a POR, so you should prioritize these.

In our unit, which isn't that awfully big, each boy First Class or higher are assigned a POR by the SPL and must carry out his responsibilies or risk being fired by the SPL.

I have only had to use the service project option a couple of times, once when a young man transfered into my troop and was ready to advance. We do a couple of service projects for our CO every year, and we do a couple for our host (church) as well. I asked him to head up one of these and gave him the authority to get it done. He did a wonderful job. We did a cleanup day for the church that hosts us, and they're not our CO. We refurbished their playground and weeded their flower beds for Easter Sunday. They were very happy to have the help.

I'm with OGE, seems a sneeky yet great way to get attendance at campouts.

Oddly, I can understand the SM and his rule here. While Fred is probably correct, it's unenforceable at it's core and the "adding requirements" umbrella argument can be used to discount it. It's worth remembering that the Scoutmaster has set this as his preference for program, which is his discression.

In my business I have to deal with government regulators and know the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) that applies to my industry. I also have to make sure my employees follow these regulations, and I find that if they don't understand the underlying reasoning for them, they are more likely to do an end arround or take short cuts. I make it a priority to "educate" them on the how's, why's and when's that forced the regulation in the first place. This has empowered them to make the right choices and not circumvent the rules .

I would say that if your Scoutmaster took the time to let all of his ASMs see his vision and understand his need for this policy, then you'd probably have a better appreciation for it IMO. Now that doesn't make it all better of course, but at least you'll understand why it's a policy. Personally I'll take time whenever a boy asks, that's part of my job as I see it. I'll also allow other ASM's to take that responsibility if they've sat in on a few with me and understand what I'm trying to accomplish with the SMC. We have CoHs about every quarter, so toward the end of the cycle, the boys get real busy getting req's signed off and scheduling SMCs and BoRs. Sometimes makes for a wild and wooly couple of weeks.

JeffD, from the last post, sounds like you're doing the work of the Cubmaster. When I was cubmaster I took pride in the ceremonies and making each boy feel special and proud of what he had accomplished. That was my job month after month.

As for the fundraising, we had a budget for awards of about $300 a month (we loved patches of all kinds), so we set our fundraising goals accordingly. We sold popcorn, candy, wrapping paper...We had "drawings" at our blue and gold for donated items like movie tickets, dinners, gift certs from local stores...we had a Father Son cake bake every year and auctioned off the cakes at the end. That always made some coin. We never had an opt out, we just hyped the fundraisers so all the kids wanted to participate. If the kids wanted to participate, the parents wouldn't be able to "opt out".

When I was a scout, one of our Asst. Scoutmasters died while active. We all attended the funeral in our uniforms and sat together. His son's (our troop mates) appreciated the support from us.

In my opinion, I would consider it an honor to have uniformed members of an organization that I undoubtedly loved represented at my funeral. I can think of no honor more befitting a Scout or Scouter than that.

What I heard you say was...

I think Cubmaster Randy payed attention in the Communications presentation at Wood Badge! LOL

Regarding quality of training, you'll find that even within councils, different districts have different approaches.

My council is pretty big, 9 districts serving 40,000 youth. Each district is responsible for developing it's own training teams. They tried unsuccessfully in the past few years in having two districts team up and share training resources. Seems there's just too much rivalry.

I'm proud of the way our district approaches training, very professionally and expectations of the presenters and trainers is very high. Other districts don't have that same commitment and it definitely shows in the quality of their programs and the leadership they produce.

I realize that training is not the whole answer, especially in this situation, but if the training is delivered effectively and consistently, it would put everyone in this situation on a level playing Field and give everyone the foundation they need to develop their Pack Program to it's fullest. Positions and roles would be defined and all would understand his or her place in the mix.

Now with that being stated, if this pack wanted to get fully trained, it could happen in one night with a team of 5 trainers and a few hours time. We've done it that way before. Or your council or district should have one Cub leader basic training at least every couple of months from the time school starts through the blue and gold season.

Nice Blog Stevejb,

I work it like the PGAC, kinda rolls it up into a nice square ball? Back in the day the Personal Growth Agreement Confrence (circa 1970's) helped the scouts set goals relating to scouting and to other areas of their life. We do this for every scout at every sm confrence and make notes in the margin of their Scout Handbook. By the time they get to Eagle, we review thier stated goals, laugh at the early ones, puff up our chests at the goals met and all this helps the scout develop his statement of ambitions and life's purpose.

Beyond that we review the project, merit badges, PORs held, leadership lessons learned, outings, summer camp, high adventure trips, living the oath, law and outdoor code from now on, and then we talk about giving back, which is probably my most important message to the new Eagle. Giving back is an obligation that they should not take lightly. I'm lucky, I don't have many Eagles that leave the troop as soon as they get the medal pinned to their chest.

Ever thought of a back pack trip in the Eastern Sierra (Southern California)?

Our troop takes a High Adventure back packing trip there every year, we fit the trip to the capability of the scouts going. It's a great time and one of the most beautiful parts of the world IMHO.

There is a Boy Scout Camp that runs what they call "Sierra Expedition". They do a good job from what I hear. Check out their website http://www.sierraexpeditions.org/

It's a part of Western Los Angeles County Council's Camp Whitsett.

Variety is the spice of life. I hope you pick some place spectacular.

Howdy Eagle Pete,

I think you're right about the CM being present at every outing and activity. I find it odd that the CM would cut out early from a Pack Meeting. Seems to me that she's showing what not to do to the boys and their parents. I was given an award once, they called it the Iron Man award. Got it from the den leaders of the Pack. Without trying I managed to attend every Pack Meeting, Outing, and Activity for 3 years straight, so they gave me this award. It was a lot of fun.

You have every right to feel frustrated and perturbed. But be careful venting to the current CM, she may want you to take her place, doesn't sound like she's too committed to the job at any rate.

Good luck

Welcome to the forum and Congrats on taking on the job of Pack CC. Below are my thoughts.

I think that what Scoutldr said is about what you need to push - Training for all adult leaders. By what you've posted, it sounds like your CM is not trained unfortunately. If your committee feels the same way you do, then you should consider making training a priority in your Pack. If you do choose to make it a priority, then you should take it upon yourselves (collectively as a Pack) to ALL get trained. Pack training can take as little as 2.5 - 3 hours total and is well worth the investment of time.

Do you hold regular committee meetings? Does the CM attend? If not, why? You and he should be working hand in hand to lead the Pack in the right direction, you may need to make a friend of him and get him to understand your communication needs, as well as you understanding his.

Regarding the Pack Meeting, that's the CM's bailywick. That's part of the Program and Program is what the CM's job is all about. I wouldn't take it upon myself to make changes for him in this arena, but I would offer help and advice in a friendly format.

Warning: Personal Story! I was a CM for 3.5 years while my son was a cub and I loved it. I worked every month on some new fun stuff and didn't repeat myself very often. I even got to help out at den meetings once a year (big deal for the little kids, having the CM show up to their den meeting). Now I took over the Pack from a CM that was not very imaginative. He tried but he was a bit boring. When I took the job I wasn't much better because I'd only seen what he'd done. Took some training and had a very supportive and creative den leader give me ideas and resources. We worked together very well, people thought we were married because we were always together at the meetings. My wife and her husband thought that it was pretty funny too, and played it at every turn. At any rate, we had great Pack meetings, activities and outings.

Pack Committee Chair is a position that has a lot of responsibility, but you should not be the hardest worker in your Committee. Quite the opposite, you should have all the bases covered by others. Delegate and recruit active participating committee members from your parents. Get the new parents involved asap and keep fresh blood flowing into your committee.

Good luck, and remember if you're in a real bind, get some help from your Commissioner staff. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

"I suspect defense of this suit will cost more than what the grants would have been.

Beavah"

That's the point usually, isn't it. Most anti-scout organizations will file suit for just that purpose, even knowing that they do not have a solid case. Happened to my old Council. ACLU filed suit because they received a public grant. Sued them and caused them to spend twice the amount on legal fees, then dropped the suit. Scum in my opinion, absolute scum (the ACLU, not the Council).

The last two I held were very informal affairs. I asked the young man over for tea or soda and a talk. We reviewed his paperwork, his application, and his records one last time. We sat in the den and talked for an hour or so, reminiscing on old outings, summer camps, etc. Talked about future commitment, what's next, how he will fit in to the troop when he IS an Eagle...

When we were done I asked for his book and signed the SM confrence part. "Did we just have a Confrence?" "Sure did, and you're ready for the EBoR with no problem".

Wish I had time to do all my SM confrences like that...sigh

Welcome Troop 20 Scout. I hope you find this forum useful and informative. The rest of us sure do. Congratulations on becoming 1st Class. I hope Star is just around the corner.

Yep, that's one of them ManyIrons. Thanks.

They're having a great time, one of the kids contacted the outside world so the parents shared with us the message. "having a lot of fun, will talk soon."

LOL, I chimed in "tell my son to step in front of a camera to get photographic evidence that he's there".

The Crew was planning a reunion for next year before they left, I hope that comes to fruition. I can't wait to hear the stories.

"I see that 'Kbjra', was most likely trained by our latest national guide lines, "How to run a Troop ", which seems not to be very successful, the way I have observed it "

It's working for me?

Opens up an intersting point, but the "new" thinking that moves away from forced discovery to full disclosure of expectations is more to my management style and liking, so it fits me better than the "old" thinking did. In any event, new or old, I think the PLC is a tried and true method that has changed very little, as evidenced by SM handbooks dating back to the wee early days of the BSA. I have a friend that owns quite a collection, and we use them for training to show people, now matter how much things change, they are always the same.

YIS

"Think, Think a Thong,

Think it simple

Think it strong

Don't worry if its not good enough for anyone else to see

Just think, think a thong

(Kiddie Chorus)

La, La, lalala, la la la la lala, la la la la la "

Now that there is funny, I don't care who you are!

I would say it really depends on your circumstances.

Our troop tries to have a PLC for 15 min before each meeting, 5 min after and for 45 min - 1 hour each month DURING a meeting. (troop busy planning an outing, PL's and SPL, etc. planning next month)

The problem we've had in the past is adding an additional night, or an additional hour before a meeting. Seems everyone is running in too many different directions. Mostly the parents, so transportation is an issue at younger ages. The reality is that if the boys want it, it will somehow, someway happen.

They are most effective when the youth buy into the idea. At that point you can have them figure out when they want them and for how long all the while trying to make yourself available .

As for the who, SM is the advisor to the leader, the SPL, it's his meeting. He should have all PL's, perhaps his ASPL's, the TG's, Troop Instructors, Quartermaster if needed and the Scribe to keep evidence..:0) ASM Patrol Advisors may want to sit in as observers to keep their own notes so they can "advise" the PL's when they have an assignment due. The SPL can invite anyone to the PLC, youth or adult, or limit participation, with the exception of the SM.

An opening and closing during a PLC is not necessary unless they are practicing for the meeting IMO, The PLC is a committee meeting essentially for the boys as leaders to use to facilitate the program they run. If you have it before or after a regular troop meeting, you'll have time to have an opening or closing there. The real idea behind it is to have the SPL chair the meeting how he sees fit, and with consultation from the SM. If the SM is willing to let the SPL run his meeting in that fashion, that's really their call.

donomiser,

First item, I'd say that's just fine. Scouting is scouting no matter what city you're in. He can get things signed off at other place, but remember at your sm confrence you can see if he actually learned anything without retesting...

Second item, I'd have to say to him "stay with your patrol" and get him to visit his relative instead of stay with him. The patrol method relies on the team model and sleeping together, eating together and competing together is all part of that model and method.

Good luck

Lisabob,

Some kids don't have any experience in finishing, just starting. Some adults are like that, too. They don't understand what a great pleasure you get from finishing something until it really happens to them. A sense of accomplishment is learned, it's not an instinct after all.

Try helping his finish off a couple of the easy ones just to give him a taste. Get those MB's awarded and maybe he'll take the hint and get going on his own.

oddly enough this sounds a bit familiar. Had this happen to a TG on the last course from my old Council. turns out he could send all the email in the world, but getting it back was an issue. Most of the return email was weeded out by the spam filter of his email program and he didn't even know it. It was unfortunate and caused a lot of ruffled feathers until he figured it out.

Try and have another scouter get ahold of your TG. Could be the same problem. If it's not and he's just ignoring you, at least you'll get him to notice your attempts at contacting him and you don't have to "go over his head". I'm always one for giving people the benefit of the doubt, if at all possible. You're not at a critical time yet, so don't get too frustrated, just remember that there are probably 20 other staffers from your course you can turn to if need be.

Good luck and work that ticket.