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Thank you dan. ManyIrons, (love that name) My son is in one of 4 Venture Crews from the US attending, One of two from the Western Region. They're in Wadi subcamp and I hope having a good time. That's cool about your son's unit leading the procession. My son's Crew was chosen to "play" with Prince William during opening ceremonies (games, drums, etc.) and they were given front row seats to whatever else happened that day. They continue to get interviewed, filmed and have photos taken of members of their crew, although I have yet to see one of my son...I wonder if he actually got on the plane come to think of it...

They're in Venturing uniforms and White Stetson hats, the only one of the 4 crews who picked the Stetson as "official" wear. I've been able to download a few dozen photos of his crew, not to mention the videos and stuff. Quite a cool deal if I do say so. I wish I could have gone, but $5G's is a lot of dough, and as long as only one of us could go, I'm glad it was him.

I talked to my scouts last night, giving them the info on Scouting Sunrise this morning, I hope they took it to heart, I know I did.

BTW, thanks for the links, those are great.

Grats Ea,

Wow, I've never thought of it but I've got 12 great neices and nephews...dang I'm old. ha!

"I know when I was young(er) I would have been out protesting this with my pants around my ankles wearing a speedo in front of the state building just to make a point!"

I guess we can be thankful you're not "younger" eh? lol

"If Ed Mori wants to parade down the street in a thong, so be it..."

Wow, that's wrong on so many levels...lol

In most places it's just a bit of the waist band of the underwear that shows now a days, but I've seen those yoots that have to crab walk to keep their pants from completely falling off. They do look absolutely ridiculous, but I think they do have a right to look absolutely ridiculous if they want. I'm glad that my fashion sense left me with denim jeans, t-shirts and white track shoes.

As a Scoutmaster, I've had to wiggle around the schedules of high school sports coaches and music teachers, even AYSO coaches and Little League coaches. As an example I've had boys that were never able to join the OA, year after year being voted in only to be told that if they went to Ordeal and not band practice, soccer practice, whatever, they'd be drummed out of the corps and left hangin. I don't think any of them would give me the slightest reciprocity with my program, even though I think scouting holds more value than any of those others.

Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing. Sportsmanship is something you practice on someone else's field, etc.

I have no love for punitive extra curricular school activities...sorry.

As an addition, I would ask your Unit commissioner and District Commissioner and maybe even your Council Commissioner to sit in on this "no confidince board". That's what they get paid (big wink) to do.

Be prepared with information on job descriptions of the Unit Committee Chair position and the other jobs as well. Bring ammo to the war to present in your favor, something that shows your opinions are not just to piss off the committee members, but actual program in print through BSA publications, etc.

I had a sticky situation in my unit with some kids that misbehaved badly at summer camp while I was at the 2005 Jamboree. I asked the Council Commissioner, a friend, to help figure it out as a 3rd party. Worked out pretty well, that's why I'm suggesting it. You don't want to be in the position of chairing a meeting that is an attack on you if you can get away with it. Also, when the meeting comes about, insist that the Parlimentary Procedures are used. I may have a simplified copy of what we used, it really helps difuse contencious meetings and makes everyone get to the point and move on. A meeting like that can get nasty and nose dive into the darkest depths of the human emotional band. Parlimentary procedures limit debate to 5 min per person only and then asks for the questions (or vote) and you're done with it. If you need a copy, let me know and I'll email it to you.

Talk to your SM, COR, IH, UC, DC, etc. and good luck.

So there are others as well...good to hear I'm not alone in the world anymore.

Some years ago I had 3 kids in 2 different schools with 3 different schedules. The School District we were in was on a year round schedule, which in my opinion just sucks. Each kid was on a different "track" and it took almost an act of congress to get that changed. The only thicker beauracracy than a school is the fed IMO.

My wife and I got to the point where we just scheduled vacations when we wanted to go, since the School District refused to publish the calendar more than a week before school started. 9 times out of 10 it was during school, but we just had given up on the whole messed up experience. We'd get the school work ahead of time and have it finished when we got back. The school didn't like it because when the children were not in class, they did not get paid for having them there.

Oh well, I'm glad I'm past all that. I ended up moving to an area who's school districts have traditional calendars, except where Spring Break is concerned, they've got that all messed up, just like your area.

The real fun part is when you've got something scheduled for summer and the kids still can't participate because: 1.) Kid A has marching band, and the band director insists that all band members work all summer long, 5 days a week, sometimes through the evenings, to get ready for band season. If they miss a single practice, they're immediately demoted and thier grade suffers when school resumes. 2.) Kid B is a member of the water polo team and they have training 50 out of 52 weeks a year, miss one day and you get tossed off the team and loose your first born.

Had this screw up troop outing and High Adventure trips all too often in the past. I wish the demi-gods of High School would get a life.

Good luck.

Our troop policy is this,

If there are conflicting OA and Council/District functions, the troop is best served if both are functions are represented by the troop. Allowances should be made for OA functions as these are supposed to be our finest members, members of the honor society of Scouting.

OA and Council/District conflicts are a regular occurance in our Council (40K youth, 11 districts, bazillion sq miles). There are only so many weekends available in a year, and something's gotta give.

IMHO if the boys that attended the OA event had delegated their responsibilities of the SFF drive to other scouts before hand, then all is well and they've done what they should have. If they left you in a lurch though, I'd have some issue with it, since the OA is meant to enhance the unit and not detract from it.

Well, my son is at the World Jamboree, celebrating the 100th anniversary of WOSM. 100 years ago today Baden-Powell blew the Kudu horn on Brown Sea Island to start what has become the largest youth based program in the world.

This is a very exciting time to be a Scout.

LodgeChief is correct. If the SM certified that the youth was eligible and placed his name on the ballot, only the SM can remove it, or essentially de-certify the scout. The chapter election team doesn't have that authority.

There should be another election held to make amends IMHO. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

"Wow, that's a 'glass half-full' outlook isn't it?"

I love it when a plan comes together!

LOL! I love this game.

Packsaddle, this has been a great thread. After all that has been posted here, I would say that you're facing an old school view of what Scout Spirit is and you're probably not going to change your Scoutmaster's mind on that subject anytime soon. That is a debate that has raged for the ages and even though Nat'l has made it's understanding of what constitutes Scout Spirit very clear and in human readable language, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

As stated before, you should support the Scoutmaster publicly, and consult in private. There should be no division between the adult leadership viewed by the troop or the committee, this will bite you in the kiester later down the road. Private consultation my mean having a cup of coffee some night, or a malted beverage, whatever your hearts desire, but make it a conversation not a confrontation.

If your Scoutmasters view of Scout Spirit for the rank of Eagle is built around the project only, then you may need more malted beverages to help him see that the project isn't everything, it's only a piece of the whole puzzle that makes the Eagle.

Quite a tight rope you're on. Advocate for the scout, and publicly support the Scoutmaster and his decisions. All in a day's work, eh?

Good luck

Wow, this is amazing.

I just came from my Rotary meeting. One of our club members is the Little League District Commissioner or something to that affect. At any rate, he's the main dude for two or three cities around here. He mentioned today that one of the leagues he's in charge of is telling him they're short $20,000 in their accounts. Holy Moly, that's ridiculous.

It made me think...I hear all the time about Bowling leagues being victims of embezzlement, little league snack bars, things like that, but I've really got to say that I'm not aware of an issue with Scouting units. Either we're better at keeping it quiet or it doesn't happen. My opinion leans to the latter.

Just thought it was interesting.

Regarding the control of the checking account. My troop has $18K in the bank with more on the way, we're building our own Scouthouse and need the bux. We wanted to ensure there were extra controls to safeguard the monies, but every bank we talked to said the same thing.

If we wanted 2 signatures on checks, that was ok with them, but they would only check one of them and not both, not their job apparently.

2 signatures is a unit decision and the unit must demonstrate fiduciary responsibility and stewardship for it's own sake. Double up on the info exchange. We have the bank statements mailed to another member of the committee who is asked to open it and read it before handing it to the CC or Treasurer at the next meeting/Committee meeting. Just a small amount of oversight, but worth the minor amount of trouble.

I think there is some magic, unspoken creedo that Scoutmasters have. We want to "save them all" and give scouting to the widest swath of boys we can. Unfortunately that means we have to put up with these attack helicopters from time to time. Recently I've had my share. My little troop increased in size by 30%. I had boys from 4 different Packs, along with their parents, join our troop. What a job, getting all of them indoctrinated. I had two separate parents start the second guessing/attack helicopter move. I got a bit frustrated at first, but realized they hadn't been properly trained and therefore had no real idea of why the troop was being run the way it was.

I was able to talk one father into taking training, including Wood Badge. Boy did that ever change him. The second fater/wife combo declared that they had been trained enough and knew more about EVERYTHING than anyone else. Constant pressure does indeed work, several months of nudging "you should take training", "wouldn't training have helped in this situation", "well, my training tells me...", "At Woodbadge, we teach...". They're both signed up in the fall. My life is going to get much better.

Back to your original question. My CC, my ASM's, my wife, my Commish, my DE...they're all my backup and the sounding board I use to vent my frustrations and concerns. Of course, a good ADULT ONLY Weekend is good therapy and a nice break from time to time. My self, I prefer Vegas...ha!

LOL, that's funny, Our troop colors are purple and neon lime green. Kids picked that out 18 years ago based on the region's wine grape crops. The boys don't appreciate the color purple as I think they should.

I like that, thanks for the great idea. I hoope I get to use it. The boys weren't resistant to the idea of females in the unit, just not as excited as I'd hoped in the beginning.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Well, I had my first real information meeting with my soon to be crew and their parents.

Before all this happend, I was mentioning I'd be traveling with a top notch Venturing guru during Memorial Day Weekend. He was a great resource and gave me tons of advice and information. He also gave me some food for thought. He's been an advisor since 1991 and asked if I would be interested in taking over his crew (no bodies, just history, memories and insight), as he want's to back out and focus on region stuff. Interesting proposal and very tempting. His crew is in another city and council, but I'm sure that could all be worked out to our benefit.

At any rate, I took the question to the boys. Without hesitation they gave it a thumbs down. They want their own crew, same number as the troop. Sorry friend, I'll figure out some way to tell you about it later.

The boys, their parents and I talked about the crew and getting the ball rolling. I gave them each a pile if information on the advancement program, the list of specialties or focuses, and promo material to share with friends. I explained the role of the adults in the crew and the crew structure, meetings, outings, and uniforming.

I asked them to consider inviting young ladies to join us, and I wanted them to ask their scouting and non scouting friends to join us as well. I gave them the charge to perpetuate their crew, keep it going and growing, and include as many youth as possible. They all seemed positive to this info and advice.

We have our first official meeting set. They decided it was to be at my house, in my pool, while eating hot wings...

Why not. I hope they want to have fun with this...I sure do.

Since the age issue is a sticking point, I would suggest that you stay active in your lodge and unit, and make yourself available to the activities chairman in your district to help with camporees, daycamps, etc. Act as a staffer for various trainings for youth (NYLT, etc).

Most District positions are filled with men and women who by avocation or experience have something to bring to the table. Your experience in scouting is invaluable and should be welcomed in the activities committee. I doubt any DE or DC would begrudge you being an active participant due to your age, as long as your registration was at the unit level.

In our council currently we have a young man of 21 as our NYLT course director. He's been through the course and staffed it for the last 7 years, so he's got a good grasp. His Program Director will be 19 by the end of June. He's got a similar story. Their course is expected to be one for the books.

There is a place for you in the grand scheme of things, while most positions will not be "official" your service is of value and I'm sure it would be certainly welcomed. Keep up the good work and thanks for contributing - giving back.

I'm interested in a Co-ed crew. My son is attending the World Jamboree with a Co-ed crew. He's really loving the experience so far. Regarding the depleting of the troop. I can see that happening and I'm trying to formulate a way to prevent that. I've not had my sit down and get it done session yet with the parents and the kids. I've got a Troop Guide presentation from the WB course I was just on. My friend and I were in charge of the Venturing section of the project, and quite coincidentally it's exactly the visual I need to talk about this program. Wooda thunk it.

At any rate, I had a chance to drive from So. Cal to Utah and back with a man that some say "invented" Venturing. He's a great guy and I got to pick his brain 6 hours each direction. Now I've got to set up the meet between me and the parents, then with the boys. Should be in the next week or so.

Wow, thanks for the list. What a great resource.

I'm going to work with them to form the crew, get it out there to thier friends and hopefully get some young ladies involved as well. I saw some Venturers this last weekend on our Wood Badge course, they were attending a training for the weekend.

In the middle of this post, just talked to a friend that's big into Venturing, he and I will be riding together this weekend to a scouting event in Utah. I'll pick his brain for a couple hundred miles at any rate. Love carpooling.

Thanks, and yes the advise helps. I've got a great rapport with the youth that are starting the crew, they're all like sons to me already, so that's easy. I've ordered the venturing leader manual from our local scout shop, it should be in soon. I've gotten a ton of info from my DE with regards to recruiting and preparing for a new crew. She even gave me a charter application.

Thank you for the "focus" part, I wasn't exactly sure about this. We've got a few crews around that are very diverse. One does Red Cross training as a basis or focus, the other two do high adventure. One of them is very extreme, they went to Machu Pichu last summer, no telling where they're going this year. I know all 3 advisers and some of the crew members, so that's a great resource.

I'll put that question to the crew from the beginning. Other than the Red Cross ers and the High Adventure ers, what other focuses are there for Crews? This is interesting.

Thanks for your input.

My troop is charted to one of our local Rotary clubs. I was a member of the unit for 3 years before I got to know any of the Rotarians. Now I are one. They invited me to attend a meeting to report on the troop. At that meeting they asked if I'd be interested in membership. I was and I did join a month later. I get to work on the youth programs Rotary has and love every minute.

Since my joining the group and becoming active, the Rotary Club has increased thier support of the unit, and has included the unit in thier plans for service and fund raising. It's really paying off for the troop and for me.

Personally I would encourage the symbiotic relationship that John in KC espouses.

I was talking to my older boys the other night. I've been having a lot of "hand holding" sessions with them lately, trying to get them to give more to the unit, be bigger, better, more appropriate leaders. I've got a group of young men that are 16 and 17 years old (7) and one 15 year old. All of the 17 year olds, and most of the 16 year olds are visibly disheveled at the end of the 90 minute meeting. I seem to remember being in their shoes when I was that age, completely done with younger kids, and unbelieving that I was ever that age.

I brought up the prospect of starting a Venturing Crew, a group outside the confines of the troop, and that they could set their own agenda, uniforming standards, focus, etc. I can't believe what a great response I got from them. All but the 15 year old were ready to sign up that night, their parents are emailing me and calling me wanting to know more and how they can help, they haven't seen their son so excited in Scouting since the day they joined the troop.

So apparently I'm going to be chartering a new Venturing Crew in the next couple of weeks. God help me. My sanity has already been called into question.

If any of you have any advice, I'd sure love to read it. What were/are your experiences with starting a new crew. How hands off can I be as an Advisor.

Thanks

I like all of the above posts, I think there's some good stuff there. This is my take, in addition to, or to expand on the above,

A good SM should be able to...

-relate well to the boys and adults. When you're the Scoutmaster, you are (in the mind of most) the head cheese and the most informed. You're relied upon to mentor to the youth and to the adults.

-example. Live the program, be the program. An adaptation from "Happy Gilmore" but a good SM needs to exude Scouting ideals in all that he/she does, and make it seem second nature.

-team building. Recognize the different team building models be able to apply the appropriate leadership styles as needed.

-organization. Goes without saying, needs to be organized and prepared.

-available. Should be available to the troop, youth and adult, whenever they need him/her. Be the main resource.

-appropriate. Be appropriate in actions, deeds, words, dress, timeliness...be the example of appropriateness to the troop.

-current and relevant. Should be current with the goings on within the troop, district, council, etc. Should be current in training, and up to date with current thinking on methods. Should be relevant to the program and up on all of the latest things boys like to do. eg. I love to snow ski, have been doing so for 30+ years, but today the boys want to snow board...I've got no clue, so I have to at least learn the lingo and understand the basics.

-involved. Should be involved in the lives of the boys to the extent possible. Attend games and competitions, performances when you can. Connect to the boys in your unit like family, see them grow.

-authority. Sort of ties alot of these together, but a SM must be the authority on all things scouting, and must have the confidence to act as THE authority of the unit, even in the face of hyperactive parents, uncontrolled boys, scout leaders outside of the unit...

I, like many of you, had the experience of becoming a Scoutmaster at 21. Got a call from my Scoutmaster, who was then the District Chairman. He told me of a troop, 2nd oldest in our area, in danger of folding. Good parents, just no experience and clue on how to run a troop.

I took the troop over and kept it going for 5 years. I was asked to take SM training at Philmont that year by my SE. I had 1 weeks vacation at work, so why not use it for training. Maybe that's where my current affliction started...hmm...

It was easy at first, lots of parental help, but it didn't take too long for things to go sideways. All members quit, parents left for another church, and had to start over. Eventually what I ended up with was a great groop of inner city kids and NO parents. Well there was this one parent that came to the meetings drunk an I spent most of my time keeping him away from his oldest son, whom he loved to verbally abuse, but that's another story.

I never had issues with older parents questioning my authority, ability or whatever. It just never came up. Probably because they didn't want to have to do the work themselves, who knows. The only people that seemed to take issue with my age were other scout leaders, particularly the Commissioner Corp at the time. That was unfortunate, but to my knowledge inclusiveness wasn't a prime component of any trainings given during the late 70's, early 80's.

At any rate, if you have a young Scoutmaster that is 21-25, and you give him/her lot's of support with trained ASM's, a good working committee, there's no reason why the program wouldn't be successful, IMO anyway.

Welcome to the forum, thanks for posting.

Congrats on making the commitment to attend Wood Badge. You'll never regret this decision.

I had an ASM that attended this spring. He decided to ask his employer if they had any interest in helping with the $$ or the time off. They ended up paying for the course in full and comping his time off as essential training. Apparantly they've sent others in their organization to similar trainings for 10X the cost, so they got off cheap with Wood Badge.

If that's not available to your future SM, then I would say if the Committee feels strongly about funding his training, then they should do so. The committee's job is to help facilitate the program the SM delivers. WB training fits into that description pretty well.

Have fun on course and work those tickets.