jpstodwftexas

ScoutNut wrote: And, just a side note, "ultimately" the "Owners of The Charter Equipment", and all Scout equipment, is your local BSA Council.

Really

Does the Local council pay registration fees on Troop Trailers? Do They Pay Property Taxes on the "Scout Huts"

If They Own it all then They Need to maintain it..

We need new Batteries for the Troop Lanterns they should provide since it is their Lanterns

Oh and the trailer which is their's needs a new inspection and registration and tires

The Ownership belongs to whom ever paid for it..

Responsibility lies with whom ever is using it at the time.

Personally I hate using "Community" property because If it breaks I replace it usually with a lot better and a lot new item.

Going By what your saying then the Council has the right to come take anything they want when they want because it belongs to them..New Troop no problem go shopping and stock them up from existing troop supplies.. A tent here and a Stove there..oh and maybe that other troop's cots.. they have 40 but only have 20 boys registered now so they don't need them

I Volunteered , I was not Trapped..

I may be rare as a leader..I have no kids, I just missed Scouting and I wanted to give back to scouting...I regret leaving Scouting for almost 30 years. I always made excuses as to why My Jobs would not allow me time to be involved

Personally I advanced from Tiger to Wolf Den Leader because I already know the Scouts and their Family Member. No since in passing them off to an un-familar leader.

Scouting is a program just like a sport..a Good Team does not change Leadership every year..

If they raise the Money..They earn the right to choice what Equipment they Purchase...That is how our Troop Worked. If we wanted a particular item we earned it. When We wanted a New Dutch oven we went out and raised the Money and bought how many and which brand we wanted..We donated a lot of Great items to the Troop. And we were fully aware that items were not personal since we solicited the Funds as Boy Scout. Every Penny Left Over went into General funds.

If the Funds come from a General Unsolicited Donation or Charter Organization Funds then Committee Decides what Equipment is purchased..after all they Ultimately are the Owners of The Charter Equipment.

Like already Mentioned..Discuss Ground Rules on Behavior when the Large Tents are used..Lights out..Food in Tents etc..Failure to follow the Rules will disallow the Use of Large Tents.

Myself I think Scouts are getting weak when it comes to Camping..

I grew up scouting and sleeping in Wall and Baker Tents..No Floors...No Zippers..Bed Roll on Ground no cot. When Everyone Started buying their own light weight 2 Man tents I continued to use a Canvas Tent..I am looking for one for my personal Tent now..either that or one of the Carport Type with Side Walls..a Nice 10x20 Wall tent is over $500 a Carport is about $200..

Netting and Bug Sprays is what you need for Camping not Zippers

How Many Scouts are in Each Patrol?

Some Tents are designed for 6-8 People or more...But I honestly can say that very few are comfortable with gear for More than 4. If you look at the Sleeping Arrangements on Paper there is never any room for gear.

Short of getting a Military General Purpose Tent which are huge I doubt you could find a Tent Comfortable for More than 4 with Gear.

They will need room for Gear..Moving around..

But If they can all get along I see no problem with it.

Chuck Boxes are easily designed if you have any skills.

I am Kinda OCD when it comes to My Camp Chuckbox..I want everything where I want it not where someone else thought it should go. I may want to have 4 loafs of bread instead of just two. My Spice Collection tends to be more than just salt and pepper containers. I tend to have about 20 everyday spices on Hand every trip. And I like to bake from scratch so no Box cake mixes for me, I need room for Sugar, Flour, Baking soda, Baking Powder, not to mention things like cream of tartar, corn starch, brown sugar, powder sugar..etc..

And since I host and cook a lot of times I also keep enough plates, cups, bowls and various utensils on hand for at least 20.

Problem with someone else's plans is that they won't fit your equipment.

I use Cast Iron..No flimsy aluminum pots for Me..

Campfire cooking for me..No Campstoves

Yea Yea I know Old school...but seeing as I don't go backwoods Camping or Long Range Recon Patrols and at our local Scout camp we drive down to Camp site and Unload..I don't need a 40 mule team to get it there..And I live in Texas where pick-up trucks are the Normal around here...

Wow a lot said without saying much

missed that topic

Do ya think someone in Scouting HQ is getting carried away

Who knows??

I requested more details

Who What When Where and Why?

Lets see if we get more details before we start Whipping the Poor Children with wet noodles

and what rule did they Violate?

Is there a Rule Against Wagons?

Anyone Know the Full Details of the project before ya start making accusations?

A Terrible Tragedy

Honestly I doubt to many actual scouts read the Magazines any more..

Hate to say it but they rather be doing stuff online..

I know my Pack rechartered everyone and made it Mandatory to Sign up for Boys life even if they did not want it. Several Parents questioned why the need 4 Copies of Boy's Life when their Kids just share and save then money.

The Real reason so the Pack could get a 100% Boy's Life ribbon for the Flag Again

Cubtrail Wrote

""This is one of the beautiful things about an online system. The case that texas provided doesn't ever happen. Instead, this is what happens:""

What Exactly Happened in My Case..

Tiger Cub Scouts earned beads..Colored in their Paws..Reported to Me with Parents. I acknowledged the Beads Earned..I turned in Each Scout's Total beads..

Advancement/Awards person who uses an Electronic Tracker tells me in order for Beads to be awarded they had to have a Specific total for each elective before Beads could be awarded..Which is Not How the Official Tiger Cub Book does it. So None of My Tiger Cub scouts Were Credited as Earning any Tracking Beads their Tiger Year.

So in my case since a Committee position wants to use a Paid for service, everyone else is being forced to also. Otherwise We do not get awards.

Now don't get me wrong I believe that electronics can be an excellent tool, it can't be the only tool used.

Also There needs to be something New About each program to make it different or Better than whats already there. I am looking for something as a Back up to Pen and Paper and I was interested in What Makes this Program easier and Better to use

Kids are usually afraid of admitting wrong doing

why because there is usually some sort of punishment

Why admit you did something wrong and get punished when you can deny it and get away with it..

Adults can supervise and still let the Boys accomplish their goal..without being overshadowing and authoritive...

We cooked our meals ...adults sat around and Watched

We Pitched or Baker Tents...adults sat around and Watched

We Built our fires.. adults sat around and watched

We Watched them cook a desert for themselves in a Dutch oven...We watched and Learned we added Dutch Oven cooking to our Camp out routine

We watched and Wondered why they Lashed together a Rack by their Baker tent and we said man that is Smart.. and when they lashed together tables to eat at we started doing the same

things..

We were never told by Adults we had to do anything. They Lead by Example..

If anything New Fangled Equipment is destroying Traditional Scouting...

Light Weight Pop Up Tents instead of Canvas Heavy tent like Baker and Wall Tents

Portable Canvas Chairs, Canvas Portable Tables instead of Lashing camp furniture

The Art of cooking on fire instead of Heating on a Stove

Before anyone Starts saying we were a Backpacking Troop..well I am Glad You were able to because If we wanted to Hike any distance we had to Hike on Paved Roads..We had to Make Laps around the Camps..I was not interested in making 30 Laps around Camp to Hike 5 Miles..

When we wanted to go Hiking we went to Philmont.

I was a Scout in the 1970's and 1980's

rldavis wrote "but what about a set time at evening campfires for all patrols to meet with the adults for stories and bonding?"

Absolutely

I guess being in a scout troop that usually had less than 8 scout at a Time makes for a different perspective than most people on here who's troops seemed to number in the Hundreds of Scouts..but our leaders were always around watching and Advising us, not telling us. We always welcomed their expertise. Of course I am the type of Scouter who enjoys listening and Learning. Our Camp fire talks went on for hours. We loved to Listen to the Stories of the adults from Military to Scouting Experiences

One of My Scout Masters was Allen Kent Johnston, a member also of Red River Renegades and Author of Buckskins-blades-and Biscuits. Learned a lot about camping and cooking from him.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/buckskins-blades-and-biscuits-allen-kent-johnston/1102323508?ean=9780888393630

We never expected our Adults to camp 300 feet away...mainly because our camps were never big enough to allow that and Our Adults never ruled with an Iron Fist..

Adults who distanced themselves open themselves up to more trouble..Isolating yourself from the scouts leads to potential disasters...So say Scouts were horse playing and one gets hurt. They all are afraid to tell because they will get punished..Monday Morning a Parent calls Council office and complains because her son comes home from camp with a Broke Ankle...your screwed .. You have no knowledge of it being broken and you rendered no Medical treatment

However if you had all had a Dinner retreat together you might have noticed the Scout either missing or favoring the Ankle..You could have looked at it and sought medical attention

since they Have progressed to Wolf..

I just want to give them what they earned as Tiger

Tiger Cub Book has 50 Electives...There is only One place in the Book to Sign off on Each one.....Each Elective Can be earned multiple Time..There is Not 100 places or more to sign off on each..So I can go Back and Tally the Count

Remember that One Yellow Tracking Bead is awarded for each group of TEN Electives the Tiger Cub completes.

Scoutnut Wrote ""What do you base the number of Elective beads/arrows your Cubs receive on?""

At the Back of the Book is a Page with Paws that once they complete an Elective that they color in a paw and the Book instructs them that once they color in a row of paws(10)they Tell their Leader..It does not require a detailed list of what each elective was done to color a paw to earn electives.

Scoutnut wrote ""What do you base the number of Elective beads/arrows your Cubs receive on?

Do you just arbitrarily decide this Cub will get this many Elective beads/arrows, while this other Cub gets a different amount? ""

So when a parent came to me and Said and Showed me their Scout's Tiger Cub Book with a Row Of Paws colored in that their Scout had Earned a Yellow Tracking Bead...I trusted that the Parent is also Honest and trustworthy..they earned a Yellow Track Bead and awarded 0r attempted to Award it..

I would assume that apparently that the Programs Track each Yellow Track Bead by Specific Electives..So Say for Example

Scout A

Yellow Track Bead 1= Electives(5,6,12,12,13,1,48,1,3,50 AWARDED)

Yellow Track Bead 2= Electives(5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5, AWARDED)

Yellow Track Bead 3= Electives(9,10,3,5,2,14, NOT AWARDED)

or Do they Just Total the Number of Electives such as

Scout A

Yellow Track Bead 1 = 10 Total electives Awarded

Yellow Track Bead 2 = 10 Total Electives Awarded

Yellow Track Bead 3 = 6 Total Electives Not Awarded

Do you walk up to a Tiger Scout and Ask them to tell your each 10 Electives for Each bead and If they Can not tell you how many times they did each elective they Did not earn a Tracking Bead.

Scenario A

Electronic Tiger Leader with Electronic Program in Hand

Tiger Cub with Book in Hand and Parent by His Side

Tiger: mister Leader I earned a Yellow Tracking Bead (Hands Book to Leader)

Electronic Leader: I see you colored in a Paw, did you do 10 Electives to Earn it?

Tiger: Yes Sir

Electronic Leader: Name each one?

Parent: What do you mean, Book says do an elective and Color a Paw and he earned a Yellow Tracking Bead

Electronic Leader: Well I need a Detailed List for My Program or I can not Award it..Go Back and get a List and I will in put it and then the the Advancement Chair and they Award it later.

Scenario B

Old Fashioned Tiger Leader with Pen and Paper

Tiger Cub with Book in Hand and parent by his side

Tiger: Mister Leader I earned a Yellow Tracking Bead (Hands Book to Leader)

Pen and Paper Leader: I see you colored in a Paw, did you do 10 Electives to Earn it?

Tiger: Yes Sir

Electronic Leader: Congrats you earned a Yellow Tracking Bead. I will tell the Advancement Chair and get it awarded.

What exactly is the selling point of a Program which you must pay yearly for?

Is there really that Much Change to the cub scout program that you have to have a Program updated daily weekly monthly or yearly..just to add New Boys at a huge Expense..

Can the Unit Advancement Chair not already Update The Records online for advancement..

I had an issue with Tiger Beads for My Tigers because apparently the program they used required each bead to be broken down by every elective..where as the Book said for each paw do any elective and Color the Paw when Complete get a Bead...No record had to be kept explaining detailed elective count

Facebook is free for Most of What The programs do..

Once again I never said they are Authorizing I said they are looking into it and Will make the Decision.

They Can Rule that that the Website Announcement is official and Do no further Research

or they Can ask for clarification and do a little research and get a First Hand answer

Sometimes A Challenge is better than blindly Following

As already pointed out Not every time their ruling have been correct..It is better to be Challenged than just blindly follow

It is My Understanding that the Youth are Responsible for the Rulings and that "Stole From the Official OA SITE"

National Leadership

The national chief and vice chief are youth Arrowmen elected to one-year terms by the section chiefs attending the annual national OA planning meeting. They serve as members of the national Order of the Arrow committee, providing youth involvement in decisions affecting national OA policy. They serve as the presiding officers for national OA events, and are advised by the adult national Order of the Arrow chairman and the professional OA team leader. In addition, each year the national chairman appoints approximately 50 Arrowmen to serve on the national Order of the Arrow committee to oversee the OA program.

Yet it seems that An Adult Made the Decision and nobody has the Authority to Change it..

What good is any Leadership if only one Adult Runs the Show

Why would It be Necessary to Change Meeting information..

Simple: Location Changes, Speaker Change or Cancel. event Time Changes..or Cancellation

How Much Is Cubtrail after free trial?

I prefer pants..

even in the 100*F Temperature we get here in North Texas..

just a Matter of preference

our favorite 3 Word Phrases immediately Followed by some form of Disaster (Usually Me getting Hurt)

Fellow Scout "Bet you Can't"

Me: "Yes I can"

Fellow Scout "I Dare You"

Me: "Okay I will"

usually Followed By

Scout Master: "Get the Kit" (referring to the First Aide Kit)

For food, for raiment,

For life, for opportunities

For friends and this fellowship,

We thank Thee, O Lord. Amen.

No what I contended was that My Lodge in the 1980's allowed it to be carried or stored on the Belt..which It did...right or wrong...My lodge allowed it and went so far as showing us specifically how to Fold it and to place it on the Right side so we all carried it the Same..maybe they should have had better internet back then

I said I would get a New Edition of the OA Handbook and see what it said about wearing, storing, carrying (or what ever you want to call it) on the Belt...and I did and I posted what it says in the OA Handbook..Nothing in the OA HandBook says it can't

I contended that not every OA member sees or reads the OA WEBSITE AND BLURP ABOUT having the Sash on the Belt and I contend that if the Ruling has been made it should be Made in the Handbook not just some Obscure BLURP..

Yea I said the Handbook was provide free and Someone polite reminded me that it is not free because we actually PAY A FEE to attend Ordeal..big whoopie...It is Not Like they say "Hey Welcome To OA...Go to Council Office and Buy your LODGE FLAP, SASH, and OA HANDBOOK..Oh and get Internet and Read this website because It is really all that Maters, It Trumps the Rule Book"

The Dominate Poster have been rude in their replies and Me and Others are expected to Bow Down to their Wishes.

I posted the Stupid Link to the Photograph as an Example of What Clearly the Handbook was eluding to as not the proper way to Wear the Sash..Arrow Pointed Down over the Left Shoulder.. I never Bolstered as Was put that it gave credence to being allowed to carry the SASH on the Belt..

and PS..My Lodge Council is looking into the Sash Placement and will make their decision and I will abide by it...Until then I will just drag it along in the Dirt or carry a Briefcase to place it in out of sight..or most likely leave it at home since when representing OA I will be wearing Regalia and won't need a Sash to be Identified as OA...Hey I can not find the OA Members for All the Guys Dressed Like NATIVE AMERICANS

Yall have a Very Pleasant Day now