John-in-KC

Brent, What do you propose for a Venturer, where that's his primary registration, who earns Eagle, whose Crew does not have a Class A level uniform? Jamboree is also an incredibly expensive experience.

OGE: That makes sense. If you've had some form of pedagogical training along the way, it's a re-plow of the ground. Got it.

Everything Nike said... And keep asking those little, but important tasks, until one day you're ready to set the hook

TCD: You may not need York again, but what about the new leader who hasn't been there, done it, and gotten 20 different Scouting T-shirts yet? Roundtable also serves as a tool to impart Scoutings values, aims and methods to newer adult leaders... Not everyone has 10 years of experience in a Cub Pack. Not everyone has learned the basics of administering the advancement program in a Troop. The model Pack meeting provides both the visual and the hand-on methods of learning for newer Scouters. Using the EDGE buzzword (BINGO!!) it's Explain and Demonstrate. Folks, I'm going to throw out one other thing RT should be, and it's thanks to a good friend I believe this: It should be ONE STOP SHOPPING for the unit serving Scouter. He needs to talk with the DE? He's there. He wants to talk with his Commish? She's there. He needs a goood idea for an outing from the Camping Chair? He's there too. Our District offers, over and above the standard curriculum, YP, TIS, MBC, and ELSP review 10 months out of 12 (we take July off, and August is traditionally a reunion night). KISMIF, but something for everyone helps too

My answer is: It depends. Years ago, EagleSon was J-staff for district day camp. That was a 40 man-hour experience for him. He was in middle school at the time, he needed a summer community service project as part of the coming school year. He was also in confirmation at the time, and needed 30 community service hours as part of Pastor's curriculum there. 10 hours went to the school, 30 hours to the parish. For generating the ethic of service to others (part of that Character Aim of Scouting), a kid willing to do a full week of day camp as J-staff is learning. Now, Ordeal workday for OA as unit service hours for Star? I've got deeper problem. That's the matter of using the same hours twice. Cubs? Do your best. I'd like to see more Den and Pack service activities, to show the kids collectively that groups get things done.

My answer is: It depends. Years ago, EagleSon was J-staff for district day camp. That was a 40 man-hour experience for him. He was in middle school at the time, he needed a summer community service project as part of the coming school year. He was also in confirmation at the time, and needed 30 community service hours as part of Pastor's curriculum there. 10 hours went to the school, 30 hours to the parish. For generating the ethic of service to others (part of that Character Aim of Scouting), a kid willing to do a full week of day camp as J-staff is learning. Now, Ordeal workday for OA as unit service hours for Star? I've got deeper problem. That's the matter of using the same hours twice. Cubs? Do your best. I'd like to see more Den and Pack service activities, to show the kids collectively that groups get things done.

hotair: "HORSEHOCKEY!!!" -- Colonel Sherman T Potter Explain. Demonstrate. Guide. Enable. This is not much more than Instructional Systems Development, or as the Army says, Systems Approach to Training. Talk the trainee through it Walk the trainee through it Supervise the trainee through it Support the trainee as he takes the skill and appropriates it for his own. No, this is absolutely nothing new. I was using a methodology akin to this as a platform instructor at the Field Artillery School a quarter-century ago.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

DING DONG The Beret is Dead!!! The Beret is Dead!!! The Beret is Dead!!!

Be careful of what you ask for, you might just get it... Lots of people asked for, nay, demanded guidance, about advancement. The National Council is obliging them. As my sainted mom more than once said "If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question..." Ed... As long as I've been on here, I've never doubted that you believe in the uniform ... but you were emphasizing the lack of existence of a requirement. Thanks for confirming that

Training records continues to be the No. 1 issue, and we are working very hard to resolve that problem It's real simple: Another module of ScoutNet needs to be accessible to volunteers: TRAINING. Of course, MyScouting should be able to dump that portion of ScoutNet applicable to the individual Scouter to his desktop as a pdf. What am I thinking? The National Council IT shop can't even have its staff keep pages current. Sorry about thinking in common sense terms, folks.

There is an initiative on to have 100% of direct contact leaders fully trained. In fact, there's a class at PTC this summer for District/Council trainers on how to plan and program training in support of this initiative. My Council last year required all SM/CM/Adv/Coach fully trained. This year, it will be all direct contact leaders. A leader will not be permitted to recharter for a direct contact position without training. I thought the National rollout was recharters during 2011.

In the Army, we do not salute indoors, unless - Reporting to a Commanding Officer - Exiting the Commander's office after a formal visit - The Commander takes his/her leave from the classroom or conference room. When I see the Kabuki theater of a Scout/Scouter returning to the salute and then lowering it after holding his arm up for the Oath/Law when the ceremonial leader says "Two," I want to throw up. Drop the arm immediately to the side. Oh ... and to the son of a gun who challenged me for rendering Honors to the Nation in Scout uniform, vice the Scout salute (not here at Scouter, ) , I simply say read the amendments to the Flag Code enacted on President Bush's watch. The definition of a Veteran: Any man or woman in the United States who swore the Oath of Enlistment/Office, then wrote a blank check to the United States of America, with a value up to and including his or her life in defense of the Nation.

This is my final post in this thread. It is time, and past time, to let this thread go "below the fold." To the regulars: Look at our behavior online here. We have criticized and ridiculed the OP, Ms Summer. Ask yourself: Would you come back and tell the end of the story if you had been treated this way? She owes us nothing at all. This is not a fee for service. We do the best we can with the resources we have. We make judgment calls on how to support a Scout, Scouter, or parent. This one may or may not have been a bad call. I'm almost certain, though, we will never know. To Ms Summer, I simply say I hope your son learned and grew through the appeal process, whether he was awarded Eagle or not. Godspeed.

Indeed, Happy Birthday! (Should we put this in Issues and Politics so Merlyn can rain on the parade ) NOT Happy Birthday to BSA and Boy Scouting, Cubs day is coming ...

We have several volunteers in our council who have it. I am not one of them.

I'll agree, Lodge 489, that Urraca, and Lover's Leap are authorized trails for PTC attendees. I just got another message from the PTC fan page on FB. The groups which can go to the backcountry in Philmont vans do so from the specific content of their conference. It's not a general feature offered to all conferences; it seems to support a training need.

Oops. I wasn't responding to emb. I was responding to Lodge 489. Of course, with the new standard national physical form, any over 40 like me has to get a Philmont spec exam, period. I was also responding to the matter of the trails. Now, family members are a different story. Under escort of their staff, they get to do a lot of things. EagleSon did the Mountain Trek while I was at Philmont the first time. The second time I was there, in 2008, he was a camp staffer in our council; having done the "Ambassadors of Music" European tour as his HS graduation present, he wanted to work. Of course, our Council Camp Staff Scholarship program is a tremendous incentive I tooled him and I a belt that summer. I received an answer, by way of the PTC fan page at facebook: John, there are a couple of reasons that PTC attendees are not allowed on the trek trails in the summer. Philmont backcountry training and heath and safety issues are big ones, but one of the most important is to keep the "wilderness" special for the Scouts on the trail. If a bunch of adult day hikers are in the way (and sucking all of the oxygen out of the air!) it can ruin the experience for Scouts. If you want to experience the Philmont trails via PTC - attend one of the September conferences! Autumn Adventure and Kanik are also options if you do not have two weeks for a trek.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Lodge 489, If the staff let you enter Philmont trek area as a PTC attendee, that is a substantial policy change. As I recall, in 2008, Brian Gray (who was then still the PTC Director) at opening show, this was his one "Please don't" request of conferees and staff. If a Scouter met trail qualifications, there were three (??) trails, including the Urraca, that were designated for PTC hiking. I remember one attendee behind me, having done the conference only physical, being told he could not hike, he did not have the Philmont Trek physical. I'll go to the FB pages on Philmont and ask...

To quote Colonel Sherman T Potter: Horsehockey. This is really pretty simple: To my young Brothers, if the ethic of Cheerful Service is forefront in your mind, wear your Arrow. If the ethic of learning is forefront, wear your MB sash. If you're an old fart like me, I'm wearing my National Lutheran Association on Scouting polo, and letting the youth members get recognized.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123439540 It was a two part story... First, Marcos Nava (I gather a Professional at National) talked about the Hispanic initiative Then, Audie Cornish talked with Eagle Scout Jon Heder, the star of Napoleon Dynamite. Finally, as transition to a book interview between Scott Simon and former Treasury Secretary Paulson, Ms Cornish noted Mr Paulson is also an Eagle Scout.

Hi, Burning, Stosh got to the heart of it. Enjoy your son as he continues to grow to adulthood.

What a bloody mess. 10% of the year gone, and no requirements. KISS, National. Roll out the requirements now. Do the pretty stuff later. You are the ones artificially restricting the badge to a one year life cycle.

Honestly, I think Unami Lodge came up with a simple solution to this issues long ago - Brotherhood members have a temp patch with the lodge totem and a red border, it services as a reminder to their heightened commitment to service. Again, like all else I've said here, this is just my opinion, but the Vigil Honor should have no special device, patch, flap, ect, save the sash alone. If a special insignia is required to identify a Vigil Honor member, the honor may have been bestowed in error. That last sentence is perhaps the single sagest comment I've seen since I joined this web-board. ICS/IFAW/YIS.

WHAT URBAN LEGEND OGE? That was how Mr Weiss handled business in my Troop in 1968-69!!! You screwed up with axe or knife, you got a corner cut. 4 corner cuts, you earned your Totin' Chip all over again. I only got one corner cut, a friend did get to re-earn his Chip.

Longhorns are gonna whoop the Sooners in basketball anyway, just like the Tigers whupped up on the Stillwater Aggies.