Stosh

New scout patrols are adult-led? Why? If the Webelos program was set up to do a bit of Cubbing, but heavier emphasis on T2FC, then the boys when they start the Boy Scout level are ready to begin taking on real leadership. NSP's should be run by the boys themselves. Why postpone leadership development by having adults interfere? To a certain extent the Webelos boys along with T2FC should have active denners guided by a DC to begin the early stages of leadership. By the time they reach Boy Scouts they should have their T2FC done and are now looking forward to putting it fully into practice, especially Webelos denners. The DC becomes TG and the transition is smooth, easy and without adults to interfere. Stosh

qwazse, Does it have to be just Outdoor Ethics? A Scout is Clean. Okay, maybe that applies to keeping their rooms clean, too. Maybe leaving the bathroom nice for the next guy, helping mom with household chores, keeping your tent organized so you know where your necker is, leaving the scout meeting room organized and cleaned up, etc. Maybe we ought to title it: "Leaving an area, indoor as well as outdoor, as nice as one found it" Ethic (LAAIAWAOANAOFI). After we instill the concept in the boys, then we'll shorten it up to LNT. Stosh

Beavah might be on the right track. Who says that the youth one organizes has to be a registered scout in order to have fun. Why not start out the kids using BSA materials, organize a group, follow YPT, etc. and get the gals going. Then when they are old enough, register them and just keep on going. I don't think there is anything wrong or sacrilegious that says gals can't be doing guy stuff. Heck, the feminists are always hounding the guys to do gal stuff. I'm sure there are going to be some restrictions, but with parental permission and involvement, it could be something quite beneficial to the gals. Stosh

Basement, don't just wait, go ask them what they want to do, then help them make it happen. Stosh

What's wrong with a scout practicing LNT in an urban area? It's an attitude one has for wherever they are. Stosh

Tampa! That was my first thought when I read the thread title! One could also do different educational programs for the community, i.e. Smoke/Carbon Monoxide promotion/awareness, Fire Extinguisher promotion/awareness, Medical bracelet awareness. They could also do safety checks of public buildings, panic bar exits, exit lights all working, power outage emergency light check, door blockages, etc. Provide literature to neighborhoods on Tornado awareness, Storm/Blizzard awareness, Medical emergency phone numbers, 9-1-1, medical doctor, clergy, etc. for elderly, or maybe marking homes who have small children, elderly and/or pets in a fire emergency. Auto/traveler's medical and bad weather kit lists. There are many ideas like these that would fit into the project arena without being in a drill where insurance might be a problem. Going door-to-door in a neighborhood and ask people if they have certain items ready in an emergency, i.e. water, radio, food cache, medicines handy, first aid kits, flashlights, alarms all with good batteries, etc. If they don't, it might get the homeowners thinking about such things. Kind of like a safety fair, but instead of having people come to a certain location, the scouts fan out and go to the people. Could work either way. Maybe a scout safety booth at the local craft fair or sporting event. Stosh

I would like to see a different focus on BSA with the different aged boys. Starting with Webelos, 2 years of T2FC training so that when the come into Boy Scouts they can actually camp. Sure they do the Cubby things at the same time but also take on the Boy Scout things for real. They wear the tan shirt, many of the pins are parallel to T2FC requirements watered down a bit, and by the time they finish Webelos they are ready for Boy Scouts. Webelos denners are the training ground for PL/APL's. This way they are spending time getting ready for the next level instead of viewing the end of Cubs as a graduation and ending of something. 3-4 years of Boy Scouts focused on taking the outdoor skills to the next level. Getting good at fire, not just playing with it. Cooking well at outings, building things and having fun learning new things with a strong emphasis on leadership/team building skills. Really having the chance to take on canoeing on short weekend trips, doing rock climbing on walls or short cliffs, learning the basics. Doing biking and hiking incorporated with camping. Take on first aid training so that it can be done for real in the field. The 14-18 year old scouts are then the high adventure/Venturing/Venture patrol boys. They have the outdoor skills, the leadership, and now the opportunity to put it to the real test. The ages are rather arbitrary, but the development sequence needs to be built in to show that the boy who starts his Eagle Project has the skills to actually do it right. This is the age where everything they have done up to this point is going to be put to the real test. This is not the years where the boys go to summer camp for the umpteenth time, but instead are looking at BWCA, Jamborees, Sea Base and Philmont! I for one would have a difficult time quiting, just when I have reached a certain level and have a whole new world of opportunity going to be missed if I quit. But what happens if I get to a certain level and the only thing on the horizon is the same-old, same-old. Just a thought.... Stosh

I had a small troop and having all the POR's was rather dumb to say the least. So in order to fulfill the requirement of 6 months of POR, the boys didn't wear any patches and the positions rolled around among them. This campout one boy comes forwards, organizes it, his buddy lines up the gear, someone else needing to do a menu/serve as patrol cook, takes on that responsibility, someone else turns in the reservation and lines up adult drivers, etc. The next campout, another boy steps up to organize it, his buddy lines up the gear, etc. etc. etc. Someone who so desires, takes on the popcorn sales/fund drive and works on that for 6 months, someone else organizes a service project (learning as a test trial for an Eagle Project), yet another boy finds a summer camp, registers everyone, lines up their MB's, goes to the Committee and submits a bill for the registration fee and has them send it in, etc. At the end of 6 months, when a boy moves up in rank, he simply identifies all the work he has done since his last advancement. At the SMC it is reviewed and organized so the boy can go into the BOR and brag about all the stuff he has taken on over the past several months to serve the troop in POR position(s). I don't think it is adding or subtracting from the requirement of serving in a POR position if it entails multiple POR's. Surely there are many cases that can be made that certain POR's do NOT have 6 months of work surrounding them and those positions are easily attained on a popularity vote or buddy assignments from their buddy being elected as an SPL. Too often I hear so-and-so wore the patch and didn't do the work. What if the work of SPL was being done on a rotation basis by 3 boys? The rest of the 6 months, they might have done part-time work as a Scribe and did Bugling on the side. The next guy did SPL for an activity, but also did some Historian work to fill up the time his buddy was SPL, and then served as Chaplain's Aide for a few minutes at each flag ceremony by offering a devotion or prayer. And yet another boy served as SPL for summer camp because he organized it. But was also a DC with the local Pack in his "spare" time. The practice of the BOR asking the boys what they did for POR requirement was eventually curtailed to just a few minutes, because the boys could kill off the whole BOR time just telling the Board all the stuff they did since their last advancement. Be careful with this approach because parents with boys who don't do anything in the troop will find their boy woefully lacking when it comes time for their BOR's. It can be very embarrassing for their boy to admit they didn't do anything towards the POR requirement. As I mentioned in earlier posts, I was removed as SM from this troop because I expected too much leadership and youth responsibility from the boys. Parents with boys who didn't work took up arms and that was the end of that, and me. Stosh

A lot of fanfare has the potential of embarrassing the boy. If it were me, I would treat him like every other ADL you have. Make sure he is treated as such all the time. If the leaders meet, he meets. If the leaders get phone calls, he gets phone calls. Think of him as a smaller real adult. He will appreciate it more than any accolades you can come up with. Give him the same expectations you would any ADL. If your ADL's get training, he gets training, etc. etc. etc. Stosh

Without Eagle Scout possibilities for college and business resumes, a lot of scouts would not be in the program. If that drops out of the program, so will many of the boys. National will never go for that. Stosh

He needs to be more involved with the den program prep. He will have all the answers prior to the meeting and then he can help the other boys. He'll have more attention from mom and he can then channel his energy into more constructive use of time. I'm thinking a little "sibling" jealousy going on with mom giving attention to the other boys. Instead of being left out, get him involved. Stosh

I always lost boys to adult-led, troop-method troops after the cross-overs. Some of this was parent oriented, still expecting cub type of program, some from the boys who didn't want to do any of the work, only come and participate in a program, not really run it themselves. After I left, both the local troops became adult-led, troop-method and so it solved the membership problem for the troop. Stosh

I have never asked the parents, but as part of my troop orientation, every scout gets the "abuse" lecture. If anyone is bullying, or making you uncomfortable in any way, tell someone. If it's another scout, tell me, if it's me tell your parents, if it's your parents, etc. If all else fails, the boys are instructed to call 9-1-1. I've never had a problem that couldn't be resolved with this process. With or without YPT, the system works. And I was foisted on my own petard. The boys complained to their parents that I was expecting too much leadership out of them and giving them too much responsibility and they didn't want to do the work, and so I have moved on at the directive of the CO who fielded the calls. So, did I talk with the parents? Nope, they had a secret meeting with the CO, CC, DE, ASM and Committee to which I was not invited. The CC came out of the meeting and told me their decision. I was in the middle of teaching the boys the Hillcourt patrol-method instructional material. Stosh

LOL! There's always wiggle room when it comes to flag ceremonies. The only thing that can't be wiggled is the respect requirement. The color guard (yes, with real weapons) of our local reenactor group was asked to do the opening and closing colors for a band concert of Civil War music. It was at a band shell in the city park but it had 2 inside aisles instead of one center, only wide enough for 2 people at best. Remember, Civil War flags, because of their need to be seen, are measured in feet, not inches. Hand held, they drape almost to the ground and the pole is very long and in a stiff wind almost impossible to carry. We had a National Flag, a Regimental Flag and the Company Flag. The conductor for the concert wanted the flags displayed front and center for the concert. It was a bit windy and I informed him that if we did that, the audience would never see the performers. We took them off to the side. Still it was very impressive. We marched in with drum and fife and the fifer was not playing TO THE COLORS or the National Anthem, he played Yankee Doodle. The outside right aisle had myself (first sergeant) and one armed guard. The inside right aisle had the National and one armed guard, the inside left had the Regimental colors and an armed guard and the outside left aisle had the Company flag and armed guard. The drummer and fifer came in behind the National Flag. It was really kinda neat to see, especially with the wind a bit gusty. Unfortunately a lot of people don't realize it but when a group of soldiers step off on the march the command is FORWARD, MARCH. However, when accompanied by musicians, the command to step off is MUSICIANS, BEAT OFF. One other thing to remember that the Civil War military protocol for the flags when the soldiers reached their destination did not put flags in holders (they would touch the ground). Instead their were all furled and laid across stacked rifles. On Memorial Day at our cemetery, that is how the flags are "displayed" at the GAR Lot DURING the ceremony. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

TO THE COLOR(S) was a French bugle call for infantry use on the parade field. In the early 1800's General Winfield Scott translated the French manuals to English and adopted it for use with the US Army. Scott's Manual was used throughout the Mexican War. Just prior to the Civil War a new/revised version was written by Hardie from West Point. Both those manuals were used throughout the Civil War, Hardie's was renamed Casey's because Hardie went south and joined the CSA and so when the Federals used the manual, they didn't want a traitor's name on the manual. TO THE COLOR(S) is an infantry call, never used by the navy, cavalry or artillery. Those branches did not need a call to muster the men to a parade field. The color guard/flag detail does not salute. They were unarmed and the command was to present arms (weapons) to the color(s). They only stand at attention and recite the Pledge. This was the norm when the first US Flag Code came out, all males were not to salute, just stand at attention. If a scout is holding the flag, just hold with both hands and stand quiet. If they ran the flag up a lanyard, stand at the base of the pole at attention, looking at the flag. For scouts, Woapalanne is correct. None of the scouts are armed so it is a flag detail and the commands should reflect this. I have never heard of the tradition of the National Anthem being used in place of TO THE COLOR(S). The National Anthem is never used to present the color(s) any more than Scout Sign is part of a flag detail ceremony. Both those traditions are civilian additions. No problem, works nicely to lengthen the ceremony. God Bless America could also be used. I have a problem with the horizontal display of the Flag in that it is explicitly expressed as not acceptable. A small flag held high and flying free by one scout is my preference every time. I do not accept the use of the shoulder patch as the focus of a flag ceremony either. It, too, is not appropriate according to the US Flag Code. As far as CSA flags during the Civil War, the CSA National Flag WAS used extensively as a battlefield marker throughout the war!! The battle flags were the secondary colors like the Federals used state flags as the secondary colors. The Stars and Bars is NOT the Rebel flag we know of today. The Stars and Bars looked a lot like the US Flag but had only three stripes (bars). Red on top and bottom and white in the middle. It, too, had a blue union with 13 stars. On the battlefield it was often confused with the US Flag so they adopted the 2nd National Flag which was the "Sterling" Banner. It had a square union consisting of the St. Andrew's cross with 13 stars (similar to the Rebel flag but was square. The rest of the flag was all white. This however, caused problems in that it was often mistaken as a flag of truce. The 3rd National flag, which came out late in the war was the Sterling Banner with a wide red stripe running up and down on the fly end of the flag. Secondary flags varied a lot, South Carolina had the Bonnie Blue flag, Army of Northern Virginia had the only "Rebel Flag", and the rest of the units used either state flags or one they made up from scratch. Most of the St. Andrew's cross flags were square, not rectangular like Rebel flag is portrayed today. The Confederate Union Jack (gunboats/ships) were rectangular like the ANV Rebel flag. The modern Rebel flag represented only the Army of Northern Virginia during the war (Lee's command). An interesting bit of trivia for all.... When Georgia got in trouble a few years back for having the "Rebel Flag" on their state flag, the people got all up in arms and demanded they change it. Ignorance is bliss because the State of George adopted a new state flag. It has a blue union, with 3 wide stripes on it. Red on top and bottom and white in the middle. They put a symbol of columns in the union instead of the 13 stars of the "Stars and Bars"! So they in fact traded out the unofficial battle flag of Northern Virginia for the CSA National Flag and 99% of the population was now satisfied. Go figure! One has to understand a little history and tradition so as not to jump out of the fry pan into the fire. I would suggest for a flag detail of Cub Scouts. Line them up and instruct them where they are to stand after they march in. Then say PRESENT THE COLORS. The boys respectfully walk in to their assigned places for the ceremony. When done, RETURN TO POST and they come back to their original spot to be dismissed. It should be simple enough for even the Tigers to figure out and be part of the ceremony when it's their turn. Mom or dad getting a picture of junior bringing in the flag is not a sign of disrespect, but one of great pride for the honor given to their boy. This should not be discouraged in anyway. Stosh

The big disconnect in this process happened over the past 150 years. During the Civil War, the last war fought with flags on the field, the commands were very clear and precise and military only. Battlefield tactics required the visual communication of the flag on the field, supplemented by the bugle to signal regimental commands to the officers of the companies and the drummer boys, re-translated those commands to the company soldiers. This is how the commanders relayed commands to the thousands of soldiers all over the field without the use of today's radios. Communication between armies was done by signal flags. The national flag was a military asset only. Civilians did not possess flags. Except on the battlefield where flags were carried, the only other flags displayed were on military and government garrisons/buildings/ships. With the onset of WWI, flags were discontinued on the battlefield because in the trenches one did not need them and one didn't want to advertise to the enemy just who it was they were up against. After WWI the use of the flag was becoming only garrison/government buildings/ships only. Congress introduced in the early 1920's the US Flag Code so that civilians could display the flag on private property and use them for ceremonial purposes other than the military. Since that time the US Flag Code has undergone a lot of changes and being disconnected from the military, the traditions diverged. Bits and pieces of each went back and forth, but were and are not synchronized. Folding the flag in a triangle is military, not civilian. There is no flag folding procedure prescribed for civilians. Flags on coffins is not a military-only practice and any US citizen can have a flag draped coffin, that is prescribed in the civilian US Flag Code. One can see an occasion "difference" and may think that something is "wrong", but not necessarily so. I do believe that an indoor ceremony, US military personnel stand at attention, do not salute, nor say the Pledge. Originally the placement of one's hand over the heart was for women and children only. Men only stood at attention. If they had a hat on, which they wouldn't in a building, they would take it off and place the hat over their heart, not hand. If they were outside and it was raining, they would only lift their hats a couple of inches over their heads and hold it there. When women and children were saying the pledge they would place their hand over their heart and say, "I pledge allegiance to the flag" and at that point extend their hands, palm up, towards the flag for the rest of the Pledge. Obviously this gesture was reminiscent of the Nazi salute (palm down), so it was discontinued during WWII. The use of military commands during civilian ceremonies is purely discretionary. One can use any command they want because there is nothing expected in the civilian US Flag Code. Parades and display is definitely prescribed, but not ceremonies for a color guard. Knowing the history of this whole process, I would recommend that whatever "tradition" a group adopts for a flag ceremony, it be within the guidelines of the US Flag Code and done respectfully. Such ceremonies can vary tremendously and still not be "wrong", just different. Whatever "commands" one gives need only be understandable to the people needing to know. Now military personnel may smile when a command is given that brings to mind something else for them, but normally they don't mind as long as it is respectful. For example, RETREAT, MARCH means to march backwards, not turn around and march forward. And to add a little flame to this post... Military and governmental uniforms can have the flag flying "backwards" on the right sleeve. Civilians aren't supposed to have the flag displayed in any way that isn't hanging and flying free, a symbol of the freedom we all share. So, in fact, the BSA uniform is not in compliance with the US Flag Code. The one practice that irks me is the horizontal display of the flag over the athletic field. The flag needs to be upright and free not displayed reminiscent of laying on the ground even if it "technically" isn't touching it. Symbolically it represents laying on the ground to me. At one point there was quite an uproar in the US Postal Service who put a flag on the US postage stamp and then desecrated it by canceling the postage with an ink stamp. Of course that was back in the day when the Flag was held in a lot higher esteem than it is today. Stosh

Wood smoke is not toxic. Forest fighters breathe this smoke all the time and have no ill-effects unless in HUGE quantities. However, urban firefighters wear full breathing apparatus because they know the burning of plastics, nylon carpets, led based paint, etc. etc. etc. will put them down in a matter of minutes. Also keep it mind exactly what it is the boys are throwing into the fires. Just because it isn't plastic it's not harmful. Natural rope and twine is saturated with insecticides and herbicides that are released in the smoke. Stick with just wood in the campfires! Stosh

Okay RALLY commands. To protect a column of soldiers marching down a road, one company from each regiment would send out skirmishers, a thin line of protection around the marching column so as to not have the enemy surprise the group while it was not in battlefield formation. One company walked single file on each side and a third company spread out in the front. If a column was attached on any of these fronts it would sound the alarm and offer up a bit of defense until the marching army could form up in battleline ready to face the enemy. These skirmishers were lightly armed and had minimal defense against a major attack. If the attack was very sudden, i.e. a unit of cavalry, they would RALLY BY FOURS which meant the men would form a small square of 4 soldiers each facing in the 4 directions. That way they had a bit of protection in all for directions. If they had enough time they RALLY ON THE RESERVES. 1/3 of the company was held in reserve to replace men knocked out of action in a skirmish fight, at that command they would run back to the protection of the reserves and fall in on each flank forming a semi-circle of defense. If the battleline was ready to take on the enemy the command RALLY ON THE BATTALION was given. That means the skirmishers are to beat feet to either end of the battalion and get out of their way so the battleline could fire at the enemy. They would reform behind the battalion and then come back on line at the command of the battalion leader. In the midst of a battle a company captain in order to regroup his company that may have had to retreat when a battle line was broken would take the identifier flag and call out to his men to rally on the flag so as to regroup his company back into a formation suitable for fighting in the style of combat at that time. The command was not official, but practical when the disheartened men saw their leader with the flag calling them back into the fight. Also in a major disruption of the battleline, the company captains would rally their men back into formation by rallying on the colors which meant they were to find their unit flag and get back to it so they could get back into the fight. In a mass melee, men could be spread out all over the place, but with only a few flags in the area, they would know which direction to start out in to find their friends. The flags were the tallest thing on the field and in the midst of battle confusion would be the only thing visible to the soldier that would enable him to get back to his unit and reform. This flag communication was important and thus very important for the flag to remain visible in the battle. To capture an enemy flag was to insure that enemy unit a low probability of reforming. To lose your flag or to have it "go down" and not be seen silences all visual communication for that unit. That is why it was so important to have 10-12 men specifically designated to insure that flag stayed upright and in the unit's possession. The color company was responsible for protecting the color guard and keeping them in the proper place on the field during the confusion of the battle. Rally 'round the flag, was not an official command, but it was used to heroically call the men to form up when running away seemed like the best option at the time. To the Color(s) was never a battlefield command. It was only used to call the men out of camps for parade to to the parade ground or for morning/evening flag ceremonies while in garrison. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

Hmmm..... Maybe that's why they call the group a Colors Guard. When a real (not ceremonial) color guard was last used, only one flag was necessary, so the term color guard was adopted. A historical color is one flag. Multiple flags are colors This problem is also seen in the use of the word pants/trousers. One pair of pants? When did anyone ever purchase only one pant? If I have only one foot I might get by with buying only one in a pair of shoes, but for modesty reasons, I've always bought both pants. But one has a pant leg and could have a single pant pocket as well. Aren't cha glad ya got though English? I would hate to have to learn it as a second language. When a color guard was last used on a battlefield, it was necessary to have only one flag, either the national flag or a unit designation flag, normally a regimental/state flag or maybe a battle flag like the Army of Northern Virginia flag, (i.e. "rebel" flag) They did not need both but could have them both on the field. 8th Wisconsin Infantry also carried a bald eagle named Old Abe as part of it's color guard. In today's world it would be similar to a garrison (camp) ceremony with the raising of the flag. Troops show up with their troop flag, but no national. Each troop would be identified with a color and it doesn't "compete" with the national flag to be raised. And for all the purists out there whenever there are three flags in the modern color guard, the American flag goes out front, NOT on the right end of the line of multiple flags. The bugle call TO THE COLORS was a battalion call to all different regiments in the field (non-garrison) to form up for parade, not raise a flag. Each regiment had it's own flag and so when the call went out in a camp it was for multiple regiments to form up all at the same time around their regimental color(s) for morning and/or evening parade. A battalion was 3-4 regiments, thus color would be plural because the 3-4 regiments would be forming up around 3-4 colors The correct command to the bugler by the adjutant to form the regiment with only one flag was TO THE COLOR. With a bugle call there is no such thing as singular/plural. In a battlefield color guard, the national flag could be on either side as long as it was out there marking right of center in the regiment. Tradition and history are often at odds with each other. For example Taps was originally played on the drum, not the bugle. That's why it's called ... wait for it.... TAPS. Regimental bugler would play LIGHTS OUT followed by soft tapping on each of the company drums by the drummer. Butterfield changed this military protocol with a new tradition eventually replacing military protocol. Raising and lowering of flags was a garrison duty. Armies in the field never raised or lowered flags. TO THE COLOR(S) meant the men were to start marching out of camp to the parade ground, the color company being the first on the line in the "middle" of the regiment on the left end of the color company. It is amazing how many of our modern traditions have taken over in the re-write of history. Remember, modern traditions have their roots tracing back to a certain practice which may or may not have anything to do with what's being done today, i.e. taps on a bugle. Also there is a major disconnect between Civilian US Flag Code, modern military flag protocol and historical military flag protocol. Boy Scouts should be using the Civilian US Flag Code. Stosh

A flag ceremony normally tries to emulate the military in many ways. It doesn't have to, it is a civilian ceremony. Whatever words one uses is okay. For those who prefer a sense of "military" to the instructions/commands, it is COLOR GUARD, FALL IN (they should know that they automatically fall in at attention) The caller may have the people rise, take off their hats, etc. but it is not necessary in that this will happen anyway as the flag passes. FORWARD MARCH (to move towards flag pole or flag stands) HALT (in front of the flags, as a group) PRESENT THE COLOR (or Colors if there is more than one flag) Put on lanyard and rise or place in in stands. RETURN TO POST (or just POST) Color guard reforms in front of flags where they were first halted. Do your Pledge, etc. For the Pledge you may wish to say SCOUTS SALUTE, which is traditional, but the military command would be PRESENT ARMS. After the Pledge, it is traditionally TWO, but SHOULDER ARMS would be military. COLOR GUARD, ABOUT FACE FORWARD MARCH HALT DISMISSED One does not need to say Color Guard before each command. The two commands that it is used is at the beginning of entrance and exit commands so the CG knows they're to pay attention. Fall In indicates the color guard is at ATTENTION, and they maintain ATTENTION throughout the ceremony until the command DISMISSED is given. This series of commands avoid the retreat issue and the dismissal is after the work of the CG is finished. But as I said at the beginning, it is a civilian ceremony, there is no wrong way to do it if a sense of respect for the flag is maintained. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

I don't want to pack in full bottles, nor do I want to pack out the garbage, thus the powdered Gatorade is my preference. If I'm doing serious backpacking, I repackage everything, leaving as much packaging at home. Anything in plastic is transferred over to wax-paper/paper so it can be burned and not packed out. Large zip-lock bags keeps everything dry. When I'm done the only thing I have to pack out is the zip-lock bags. As a Civil War reenactor, I learned to roll blank paper cartridges with gunpowder to use on the field during the battle. Well, take that one step further, roll wax paper and fill with Gatorade and you have a quick one cup serving. Individual oatmeal, cream of wheat, instant potatoes, etc. also do well in these "cartridges". A bit of water and you're good to go. Toss everything in the fire when you're done. One could experiment with different sized dowels to make packaging a bit bigger than the .5" diameter CW round. A 1" dowel would be about as big as I would want to go and keep the integrity of the packaging. Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

Jack 'em up with sugar and head 'em on out! Sounds like a Camporee theme. I normally just rely on water, but when I do reenacting wearing a heavy wool uniform in the middle of summer, I do rely on powdered Gatorade to bounce me back faster than just water. I don't, however, use the plastic bottles (LNT) and burning them in the fire isn't a feasible option due to the toxic fumes of burning plastic. It doesn't take much more than a cup to get me back on my feet, but the sugar rush of drinking this stuff the whole weekend is beyond my tolerance level. Stosh

Nope, Bush's fault runs through Washington. In the Midwest, it's got Chicago, so it much be Obama's fault. Which neither is as bad as California's Regan's fault. Stosh

The best scout I have ever had in any of the troops is in college now. At first he was a major pill to say the least. He did a 180 turn around, Eagled, served as 4th ASM at the 2010 Jambo. Spoke at the Golden Eagle banquet last year, served as the assistant program director for the high adventure program at a boy-led, patrol-method summer camp and has now moved on to college. He's joined ROTC and one day wishes to be a fighter pilot. Any troop that turns down this man's application because he's only 19 years old is a total fool. Each application needs to be carefully checked out, but age should not be one of the criteria by which a person is accepted/rejected. It was a very sad day when I bid him adieu as he went off to college and his last words to me was he was excited about joining a new troop in his college town so he could stay active in BSA. These kinds of young men serve every year at BSA summer camps all over the country, yet when it comes to the everyday work of a local troop, somehow that automatically disqualifies them because they are too young? Doesn't make any sense to me. Stosh

Unless the CC and SM are on the same page, it isn't going to work. The troop I used to serve as SM went from boy-led to adult-led in a heartbeat. The parents waited until a new inexperienced CC took over the committee, rose up, took over the committee and had me ousted. I was in the middle of teaching the Harcourt training when they came out of their meeting and dismissed me. The reason for my dismissal, the boys were expected to do too much leadership. End of story. Stosh