hotdesk

I do think that the Scoutmaster should be fit enough to deliver an active outdoor program. He should be able (physically) to participate in most of the troop programs. This includes hiking, climbing, canoeing, caving, backpacking, etc. The Scoutmaster should be enjoying this activities with the troop's membership in order to get to know more about the scouts. HOWEVER, Assistant Scoutmasters should be able to have a knowledge of some of the activities and a willingness to participate in those activities. If they are fit enough to a simple car campout and can provide useful information and help then so be it. Committee Members and Officers don't need to and shouldn't be expected to meet any physical fit requirements. If they are willing to work behind the scenes and care for equipment, make reservations, produce a newsletter, etc. then let them do it.

1) I see some possible safety concerns as far as the dinner goes. The first would be that scouts are forced to be around adults that are drinking. They are subject to those that may not be able to handle their alchol. I as a parent would be VERY CONCERNED about this. 2) It sounds like your CO may be a VFW or American Legion??? You also said that you do not have a COR? The first thing that I would do is have a Parent's meeting. Feel free to invite the Scoutmaster and Committee Chairman. Make it very clear that the parents are incharge of the meeting and that it is to address concerns. Then make sure that all the parents get a chance to share their concerns and get on the same page. Next, I would nominate one of the parents (hopefully a business person or long time scouter)to approach the head of the organization and find out when or if a replacement was named. If not I would ask that a person be named. If the head of the organization is against this I would find out who the District Exective or District Director is and contact them to discuss the appointment of the COR with the head of the organization. The next step would be to sit down with the COR and let him or her know of the parent's concerns. Then wait and see if things change (give it a couple of months). If things do not change I would request that a meeting be set with the COR, SM, CC, UC, and a couple of parents (that would represent all of the parents). Here all the concerns can be readdressed and solutions can be developed as a group. IT IS A LONG PROCESS. Your Scoutmaster is unlikely to change his ideas and plans. However, it is important that the Scoutmaster and Committee Chairman do the following: 1) Follow the guidelines in the Guidelines to Safe Scouting. First and foremost should be the safety of the scouts. 2) Keep updated in training. Know that there are to be at least 3 members on the Committee and that they should have clear job descriptions. As with money Boy Scouts does heavily suggest that at least two signers be on all accounts. Usually this people would be the Committee Chairman, Treasurer, and/or Chartered Organization Rep. 3)Be willing to delegate power to the other Committee Members and the Program "power" to the Patrol Leader's Council. 4)Follow the Boy Scout Program.

Stosh, in our troop the Patrol Leader just needs to call his patrol. He doesn't need them to remember or inform their parents of anything. As a scout is trustoworthy all we ask is that the Patrol Leader call the Senior Patrol after he called his entire patrol. The "phone tree" is started by the Scoutmaster who calls the Senior Patrol Leader who calls the Patrol Leaders who calls their patrol and at the end the PLs call the SPL. The Patrol Leader's Council is the group that developed and passed this. If the boys want to hold themselves to that then let it be. Also if a troop has to lean on multiple ways for communication then so be it. The OA Advisors and Officers Handbook informs them that if a scout only: Hears Something they remember it 10% of the time See something they remember it 20% of the time See and hear something they remember it 65% of the time See, hear, and have it in writing they remember it 80% of time It further tells us that in order to successfully promote an activity its members should involve a combination of newsletters & website, calendar distribution, special fliers, OA Troop Reps, and phone calls before activities. Today many of our scouting Quality or Centinenal Awards depend on a precentage of members participating in activities and in an increase of members. Different parents and scouts prefer different methods of communicating. In order to meet our requirements for these awards we need to communicate with each of them and then have them remember in order to have the precentages for these requirements.

During my last term as Senior Patrol Leader (2005 before I aged out) my dad was the Scoutmaster. Between the two of us the committee and parents expected that we produce a monthly newsletter, upkeep a website, have Patrol Leader's call their Patrols, make weekly announcements at meetings, and send emails to all scouts, scouters, and parents. It was at that point that I recruited 1 parent to do the newsletter, 1 parent to upkeep the website, have the Scoutmaster appoint an Assistant to send emails, and started to expect that the Patrol Leaders do the most important part of their job (communicate with members). At that point we decided that Patrol Leaders would need to communicate with their members (phone calls) or they would not have actively served in their position.

It's not ALL kids. There are kids that lack common courtesy. They don't understand that they are responsible for their thoughts and actions. They would much rather verball harrass another scout, leave a mess for others to clean, or talk loudly when a leader is leading a meeting. HOWEVER, in my experience, for each one of those scouts, there are at least 5 more that not only clean up after themselves and are respectful to not only themselves but others AND encourage those that lack courtesy to do better. That is why I have stayed in scouting. Watching scouts grow over time in their vaules, morals, and believes and becoming more comfortable around adults is very impressive. Do not only look at the bad, the kids that lack courtesy, but consider those that go above and beyond as well.

The Scoutmaster Handbook explains to a Scoutmaster that patrols can do Patrol Activities without adult support. HOWEVER, it does let him know if that he is not comfortable with the planning and detail process that he may either suggest to the patrol that they do better or that they find 2 adults.

Beavah I'm in charge of Family Life at the district MB College starting on Saturday. With all the requirements that tell a scout to Show, Discuss, and Explain to the Conselor how would you apply your second method to that badge?

1) I would require that all scouts serve as a Patrol Leader or Senior Patrol Leader. Scouting is to teach scouts about leadership and adult interaction. A Scout can currently earn the rank of Eagle by only holding the position of Historian. What does Historian teach us about leadership? Serving as PL or SPL would allow a scout to have more adult interaction then he gets with any other aspect. Also I understand that not all scouts are going to be good leaders. However, being a leader would help a scout become a better team player and follower by showing him what's involved with leading a group. 2) I would also change the ranks of Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters. I would suggest that a. no mothers serve in either rank and b. that they be adults whose sons have aged out or don't have sons in the program. I have been on many trips where parents want to serve as parents for their sons regardless of their troop position. I have seen mothers want to be mothers for all the scouts during the campout. This teaches the scouts nothing during the campout other than "mom" or mom and dad will be there to bail us out regardless.

So after discussing the importance of having a Senior Patrol Leader again as a troop and letting them know of the two options if we don't have an elected Senior Patrol Leader (1) we will cancel troop campouts because there will be no boy leader to plan the program or (2) the Patrol Leaders---3---will serve two month terms as Senior Patrol Leader and pulling a few of our scouts to the side we finally got one, our current ASPL, to run for the position of SPL. With our older scouts we created a High Adventure Patrol for them. The PLC has placed 2 guidelines on this patrol (1) they take more initive in planning the High Adventure activities and (2) they either plan 4 of their own activities during the year or add components for their patrol to our troop activities. The older scouts were more than receptive to the idea.

Merit Badges shouldn't be the focus of a Summer Camp. The focus of Summer Camp should be to get your scouts outdoors for the entire week. To teach them the basics of Boy Scouts (things like leadership, working as a team, and surviving without Mom and Dad around). Today we have turned Summer Camps into Merit Badge factories, instead of the great scouting classroom that it should be. Another thing is that maybe your scouts picked this camp because it has a really neat waterfront or swimming pool. Maybe it has a big open field that scouts can go play football, wiffleball, or some other field sport. But to answer your question the Summer Camps that I have been to and the one that I have staffed at always have their Merit Badge listing established well before hand. Usually it doesn't change much year to year. They utilize the waterfront, pools, buildings, and other resources the camp has itself and then hires staff accordingly.

From what I'm reading the main suggestion is to let the position not be filled and have a few meetings and outings cancelled. After this happens, if the scouts really want a troop, they will welcome the opportunity to serve. I'm not sure I really like this idea though. There needs to be a better way to encourage scouts to serve in leadership positions than this. Sure BW mentioned a constant culture of leadership. I think and I hope that this is the way that our troop is treating this topic. Maybe an outsider actually seeing the troop in action may have to tell me differently. Again I like jblakes suggestions, but in our troop not only is the Senior Patrol Leader a top leadership position it is also a ceremonial position. The Senior Patrol Leader is the one that represents our troop in front of our Chartered Organization on Scout Sunday. He is the only the MCs the Court of Honors. He is the one that again represents the troop at Eagle Court of Honors (which we should have several during the next 6 months). Our troop is also pretty good at District Klondikes. He is the only that leads the troop in the opening ceremony. These ceremonial things go along with his responsiblities of leading the Annual Troop Planning Conference, planning the PLC meetings and leading them, leading the meetings, delegating responsiblites for outings, and doing those types of things. Venididi mentioned that """Another thought - perhaps scouts have met their leadership requirements in past offices, and, having met the requirement for their own advancement, are satisfied because they are focused on their own needs and not the needs of their patrol and troop?"""" It seems to me that this may be another issue that we are experiencing. How to we correct this issue?

The scouts are the ones that lead in our troop. They have an annual troop planning conference, plan the program for outings and meetings, carry out Court of Honors, and do the instructions during meetings. They have a monthly PLC meeting where the SPL develops the agenda and they plan all the events for the upcoming month. All scouts that serve as PLC leaders (ASPL, PLs, TG, Scribe, and JASM) give reports to the PLC to update them on their position and any problems they are having. The PLC then discusses ways to corret these problems. The adults make themselves available for guidance and direction. They don't step in to run things and those that do are pulled to the side to make sure that boys are given the chance to lead. The reason that this discussion was held in front of the whole troop is that we have had this problem (which has increased) ongoing for the last two years. This time no one at all is interested (which we've had private discussions with scouts that we would like to see in the position). During the last two years we have only had 1 person interested at each election. We decided to discuss this issue has a troop to see what responses we could get for scouts not being interested. As far as running a smooth troop I'm not sure if that is our concern. Our concern is that there aren't scouts interested in serving in the positions of SPL (and two that I didn't mention eariler) ASPL and Troop Guide. JBlake47 mentioned that there will be olders scouts that know the routine and will take over when the see the need. We do have 1 scout that has continued to serve the troop during the last 2 years when we have needed it most. He served as SPL for a year (our guidelines say after two terms you have to take a 1 term break). The only problem is that now he will be leaving the troop at the beginning of summer to attend college. The rest of claimed that they are to busy to serve, and while the do attend, no longer seem to take ownership in their troop. These are scouts and young men that used to take the ownership. Used to serve as Patrol Leaders, Troop Guides, and Senior Patrol Leaders. You have older scouts that are causing behavior problems because they aren't really leading anything. Is it behavior problems or general frustration on the part of these older boys? It's time for them to take over and prove their skills. If they have been offered the offered the responsibility and full authority to fulfill that responsibility without any adult interference, I think they will take over before the troop suffers too long. As a matter of fact I don't think it will suffer at all. The skills and talent is there in your troop, challenge it. Put the choice in their laps and step back and let them figure it out. They know the routines. I do believe that if they feel responsible for the success of the troop they'll answer accordingly.

Troop 159's elections are coming up in Febraury. Last night the Scoutmaster and myself (Assistant Scoutmaster) discussed this with the scouts. We gave them the names of those that were eligible (based on guidelines established by the PLC). We then asked them who, out of those eligible, would be interested and then asked who would be interested period. The answer that we got was that no one was interested. We have several members that were elected, based on their deservence, into the Order of the Arrow and that are also Star or Life Scouts. We have scouts that have served as ASPL, PLs, TG, and some that have pervious experience as SPL (however some of these scouts are now those that are causing behavorial issues within the troop). The Scoutmaster expressed to the scouts that one of the roles of Boy Scouting is to teach leadership. I expressed my thoughts that if the job of Patrol Leader is done correctly that it was a far harder position than that of Senior Patrol Leader. Still no one was interested in serving. The answer that no one is interested in serving was not a surprise to me. In our area we have several county, city, and township elections that have 1 or fewer candidates running for these positions. I have also read national reports that an attitude of "I don't care" is really sweeping the nation and causing problems. However, how do we encourage these scouts to serve in leadership positions?

1. The CO DOES NOT select the Unit Leader, that process is usually left to the Unit Committee. The Unit Committee puts together their list of candidates. It then interviews their top candidate. IF the top candidate is willing to do the job and the interview committee feels comfortable with that candidate it is usually put in front of the entire committee. AFTER dicussion it's voted upon and, if passed, is forwarded to the CO for their approval. Usually the CO only directly selects the Committee Chairman and Chartered Organization Represenative. It approves the rest of the leaders and volunteers. 2. For teachers and other professionals they are getting paid money. In exchange for money I am going to expect that they meet certain expectations. If the do not meet these expectations then I'm going to consult with them, recommend that they take additional training, and let them know of any additional progess that they need to make. IF they don't make this progress then, since they are being paid to make them, I will ask them to resign or I will fire them. For volunteers I am going to inform them what their position is expected to do. I am going to point them toward the necessary training and ask them to complete the training. I'm then going to let them do their job. If they are holding an office of the committee or serving as a Unit Leader or Assistant Unit Leader they are going to have a lot more room to do their job the way they want and to the capabilties that they have. VERY few people in our area are willing to take these positions. More parents are now willing to only work on small, time ended, projects. Therefore, we're usually stuck with what we have. ALSO since the Unit Leaders, Assistant Unit Leaders, and Committee Officers are not being paid or otherwise compensated (other than the pleasure of working with scouts) I'm usually going to let it go unless they are not specfically following the ideals and methods of Boy Scouts. If they are trying to practice and get people to follow the ideals and methods then I'll be okay with it. I'm not going to replace them simply because they are not prefect. 3. I have used TLT a couple of times as an Assistant Scoutmaster. We train all scouts as leaders (older scouts) and we also train scouts in what can be expected from our leaders and what leader is doing what (newer scouts). It is a training program that gives you the room to add stuff that will be more practicle to your particular unit. It allows for motivational songs and movie clips that match what is discussed. HOWEVER, since I know that not all Scoutmaster's know what to add I'd really to like to see a more detailed plan.

Just because a Scoutmaster CANNOT train a scout leader does not mean that he can't teach or work with the boys. There's a difference on teaching someone how to motivate others to do their job than being motivated to do yours. A Scoutmaster should be respected by the scouts and willing to have fun with the scouts. He should put into practice BSA's methods and ideals and expect that his Assistants and that the Committee know what these methods and ideals are and that the troop is boy lead. A Scoutmaster SHOULD be able to make camping enjoyable for the scouts in the troop. He should know who to inspire kids to be active, live with Scout Spirit, be involved citizens, and much more. HOWEVER, Boy Scouts of America should have a uniformed method for training its youth leaders just as it does for its adult members. BSA should provide the Scoutmaster with detailed information just like it provides Council and District volunteers and Summer Camp staff members detailed information for training adult members. Most training programs (even outside of BSA) have detailed training programs for its trainers to use. Your employer problem has a detailed training program for its Human Resource Department and Managers to use. Why should Boy Scout not have a more detailed training program for it's boy leaders? Just because a Scoutmaster can't properly train a scout to be a leader doesn't mean that he can't inspire scouts to the above listed items.

I have noticed that the new TLT is less scripted and detailed than the old Jr. Leadership Training offered by National. I have noticed that it leaves the Scoutmaster a lot of room to add things to futher points. HOWEVER, national should be offering a more laid out, scripted, and detailed training program. Their training programs should include videos, games, and training cells. I know that the Scoutmaster is responsible for training, but whose to say that the Scoutmaster is good at training? The Scoutmaster may or may not have that is his "tool box". This program is suppose to be boy lead. Nothing else gives middle schoolers the same chance to learn about leadership. IF a Scoutmaster IS NOT good at training we are not providing them with the necessary learning materials other than saying that mistakes will be made and that we will help you after the mistake is made.

I'm reading through these posts and I'm seeing a lot about how National doesn't do this or that. I'm also seeing posts about how the rank advancement has missing holes. IF a scout is well rounded he is doing more than scouts. Scouts are learning about being physical fit in sports (either with schools or outside of school). Scouts are being mentally awake by trying their best at schools. Scouts are doing their duty to God by going to church. Scouts are doing community service at school. They are learning communication skills in clubs like Debate and Speech and in their Speech Classes. Scouting is not the only area of a boy's life charged with teaching and guiding them. They need to work with their families, in their school, and challenge themselves to take on new challenges and obstacles.

The first thing that I see is that units operate according to what their adult leadership wants. If the Committee Chairman and Scoutmaster see the need for an adult lead troop then that's the way it's going to be. If the Committee Chairman and Scoutmaster are willing to work at establishing a boy lead troop than that's the way it will be. Most chartered organizations don't really spend enough time around the unit they charter to see the end result. They simply invite the troop to a couple of their functions (ie; Scout Sunday for Churches). They may also ask that the unit do some community service for them. As long as it gets done they won't care who directed it, the scouts or the adults. National Camp Standards are simply for scout camps to make sure that Council's run them accordingly. As far as advancement standards that's true. Council's require that all advancement be placed on the correct forms so that it can be checked against their records. I would hope that if a troop was going to encourage a scout to advance that they would do it according to BSA policy. I'm not quite sure how youth protection helps create standardization. Youth Protection is full of common sense things that all adult leaders should follow to keep themselves out of trouble. So from my experience troops operate more accordingly to the result of what their Committee Chairman and Scoutmasters want. The adult leadership takes volunteer training and are free to interpuert it as they want to. Even with my district increasing Commisioner visits to units they have not to provide any advice or comments that help us fit BSA Standards.

As I mentioned earlier you have to make sure that the things you ask parents to do are within their whelm of understanding and comfort level. Something I would also note concerning the scout asking if his dad could come is that, diffently if this is a younger scout, maybe there are issues that the scout is not fully aware of. We have 1 scout in our troop who currently refuses to go camping without his dad. He assumes that any campout that he wants to go on his dad will be able to attend and informs the adult leadership of that. However, sometimes dad is actually busy and doesn't have a full weekend to dedicate to a campout or activity.

The troop that I am in is chartered to a church and we still have to fund every dollar. The Crew that I am in is chartered to a VFW, which makes a donation of a few hundred dollars every year. However, remember that there are many expenses for a meeting place. Their is the cost of the custodian that cleans up after your unit, the cost of the electricity that you use, any supplise that you use while using the bathroom, the cost of the water you use, the cost of gas/heat, etc. So next time remember that you could be forced to rent a meeting place to help cover these costs as well.

Since you said "my troop" I'm assuming your a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster... So the first thing I would do would be to make an announcement, at the next Court of Honor, that all parents are expected to attend at least 1 outing a year. This way parents know the expectation, can make plans with work accordingly, and pick the campout that best suits their interest. If your actual problem is adult participation, on a whole, I would pick a responsiblity that doesn't require a lot of time at meetings or outings (Activities Coordinator, Fundraiser Chair, repairing troop equipment, etc.) and specifically ask that parent to complete that task or position. Remind him that a scout is helpful and that parents are good examples for their sons. Remind him again that all parents are expected to participate in your troop.

For a few years now our Patrol Leader's Council and Senior Patrol Leader have had the responsiblity of planning the Court of Honor and carrying it out. However, when I first joined the troop (10 years ago), the troop committee planned the Court of Honor. These Court of Honors turned out to be a more open Committee Meeting (with members making reports to parents) than a ceremony recongizing scouts. But when our troop finally became boy led (6 years ago) we established a Patrol Leader's Council and a new Advancement Chairman was appointed by the Troop Committee (the pervious one became Scoutmaster). The Advancement Coordinator expected the Senior Patrol Leader and Assistant Senior Patrol Leader to help plan the COH and carry it out. When our troop's fourth Scoutmaster, since I had been involved, took over he decided that the job should be open to the entire Patrol Leader's Council so the PLC, Advancement Coordinator, and Scoutmaster all worked together to plan the Court of Honor. This has worked quite well. The COH have became shorter in time (cutting out Committee Reports) and have been more focused. During the Court of Honors the PLC selects a patrol to open and close the cermony, a scout to award the Outstanding Adult Award, a time for the adults to award the Outstanding Scout Award, let the Activities Coordinator recognize those that have attended outings since the last COH, and advancements are presented by the SPL, SM, and Adv. Chr. At the end of the meeting the SPL, SM, and CC all have a moment (called the SPL Moment, SM Moment, and CC Moment) to share their thoughts. They are asked to keep it brief and to the point.

Almost of the positions on the committee or as a Scoutmaster/Assistant are often underappreciated by the parents. Unless they have served in a leadership position, for scouting, they don't quite grasp the number of hours, amount of frustration, and amount of energy spent in our positions. However, it is not because of the parents that we do what we do. Most of the time it's because of the scouts. If you don't enjoy working with them then it's time to leave. If you have fun with the scouts, but not the parents then that's totally expected by most. In our troop we have qualifications to be eligible for troop elections. The Senior Patrol Leader candidates must all be at least Star, have attended at least 50% of the outings during the last two years and 2/3 of the meetings in the last 6 months. They must have also served as a Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, or Patrol Leader. This rewards those that try to do their best in regards to the troop. The attendance rates (for both meetings and outings) does take into account excused absences. Excused absences are when the scout calls his Patrol Leader, before the event, and tells him that he cannot go for x reason. Reasons such as "I don't feel like it" or "It's too cold" are not accepted, but responses like "I have to go to a band contest for school" are.

Our troop has a healthy supply of MB Books. Before Merit Badge Days (offered by our District) and Summer Camp we expect scouts to list the Merit Badges that they are going to work on. The scouts start working on these badges before the MBD or Summer Camp. Our Librarian goes through the lists and pulls the correct number of books from our Library. He puts them in a box that goes to the events. At the events he gives them to the scouts that are going to be using them and, during Summer Camp, collects them back at the end of the day. If we don't have enough of the books he looks at the scout's schedule for those events and creates a rotation list so that the scout's know who needs the book next.

Our troop does have a Chaplians Aide. In our troop he works with the Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster in planning a church service, which we do on Saturday night of each campout. He also helps plan Scout Sunday within the troop. Somebody perviously mentioned that """""There are POR's that I think are great to have if you have the numbers to support them: Troop Guide, OA Troop Rep, Librarian, Den Chiefs, JASM and Instructor."""" In our troop the Troop Guide is one of the most esstential positions. We have a New Scout Patrol. We have a New Scout Assistant Scoutmaster. However, the Troop Guide is more on the level of the new scouts. He knows what to say and how to teach so that the new scouts will understand it. He is one the plans the program for the New Scout Patrol and then works with the Assistant Scoutmaster to make sure it will work and get the scouts to First Class in the First Year.