hotdesk

So I have found these sources for our food so far: coffee: Jewel Express (Jewel-Osco's gas station). I don't know if this is regular or not. I was able to talk to the Store Director because I work there. bread: Panera Bread milk: Dean's Milk and gift cards (smaller amounts) from Jewel-Osco and Wisted's. A few people mentioned that restraunts may donate things. What restraunts would be willing to donate?

SequoiaWDL what did you mean when you said "Even Wal-Mart if you dare"?

As a 20 year old adult leader I agree with Beavah. Ask the Senior Patrol Leader what he thinks should happen. He'll probably give you the answer that you're looking for. I would support removing him from the position of Senior Patrol Leader because this type of thing will have an impact on his creditablity. Also the way our Discipline Plan is setup the committee would be the group to discuss this type of thing. Not because the scout is the Senior Patrol Leader, but because the scout is a scout.

My question for highcountry is where did you find the food distributors numbers and who did you talk to? For eolesen what problems did you have with charging for unsold unreturned tickets? This was brought up by our Troop Committee and was left to my decision (as the Dinner Chairman). Other additional comments: 1. We already have a certified foodservice person to coordinate the kitchen. He will be securing the Health Food Permit. 2. anarchist each family is being asked to donate baking goods for the dinner. we will go ahead and bake the deserts the night before. We don't want them to fall under the "jursidiction" of the Health Department. In order to so we must have them preportioned and wrapped. We also must have a receipe on file. I think that asking the families to do this on their own would be too much. 3. I think clean-up will be easy as we will be having our annual Lock-In afterwards. The scouts will be ready to get to their video games and social bonding after the Spaghetti Dinner. Somethings that have been mentioned that I'll probably try: 1. Publicize it w/ firehouses and police stations and invite them for free 2. post flyers at the local Moose Lodge, Lions Hall, VFW, and Chamber of Commerce 3. Try other sources for food donations. Let me know of anything else that would be helpful.

The comment meant that any tickets that go unsold (by the due date) must be returned to the troop. If they are not returned then the scout must pay for the ticket. We are not asking for a cash donation. The letters for both the silent auction and for food donation requests items or gift certificate donations only.

So I am chairing a Spaghetti Dinner for my troop. I have recruited coordinators for; Ticket Sales, Silent Auction, and Promotion/Advertising. The dinner is December 14. I went to our local grogcery stores to secure donations for food items. I work for one and they were only willing to donate $20. Another donated $10. Super Wal-Mart won't discuss it until at least today (but should I expect much more?). Bread will be donated by Panera Bread. Scouts were issued 10 tickets at the last meeting. The price is $5 for adults, $2 for kids under 10, and $12 for families (size of 3-5). The scouts were encouraged to sell at least the 10 tickets they were issued. We also told the scouts that if they didn't return any unsold tickets that they will have to buy them for $4/ticket. We also made flyers to post in local stores at the last meeting listing a contact number for purchasing tickets. We posted some and still have some to post. We also plan to run press releases into our 2 local papers. My question is what are some keys to conducting a successful Spaghetti Dinner. We haven't done one before (which is why I, an Assistant Scoutmaster, am coordinating it).

The forms that must be filed for rank advancement with Boy Scouts requires signatures of a few committee members verifing that the Scout past his Board of Review. What did your past Scoutmaster do in this regard?

The requirement is activities not outings. In our troop some troop fundraiser (Fair Parking, dinners/breakfasts, water sales, etc), patrol/troop service projects, campouts, day trips (hikes, biking, muesum vists) all count. Anything that the troop or patrol participates in outside of a meeting.

My point is that advancement is a part of scouting, not the prime focus. The program is here to develop overall knowledge, skills, and abilities in leadership, citizenship, and stewardship. Don't get me wrong, when a scout wants to advance we should consider it important, at least for them. In a publication from the Blackhawk Area Council titled "The Scoutmaster II" who was written by a Scoutmaster of 20 years and a member of our Council Executive Board it states that one of the top three reasons 15 year olds left scout was that they were not challenged. Some scouts will find challenge in rank advancement and others will find challenge in the high adventure activities they participate in. And then even some will need challenge in both areas. In the post that this was spun off of there was discussion about rank advancement. I spun this off to help make a point that scouts do not need to reach Eagle in order to be changed by the program. ____________________________ Someone brought up that there was no minimum age requirement for Eagle. That is true. I mentioned that ""1. I don't know how a 14 year old becomes a real Eagle Scout. That means that they reach the summit at or before Freshman year in highschool. Most of these kids would not be mature enough to understand the importance of the rank, much less the importance of the things they learned through experience and Merit Badges. " I understand that there is no minimum age requirement. However, I think that, for the most part, it would hold up that most 14 year old kids wouldn't be mature enough. Wouldn't completly understand the experiences they went through and things they learned. If they do not understand these things when the reach Eagle, are we doing them a disservice? Are we really accomplishing the aims of the program? These aims being moral strenght and character, participating citizenship, and development of physical (well-tuned and healthy), mental (able to think and solve problems), and emotional fitness (self-control, courage, and self-respect). If they understand these aims and grasp them then they are ready at 14. If they are reaching Eagle because we have pushed them or formed an Eagle Mill then we have done them a disservice.

There are a few things that being in Scouts can teach a young man: 1.Working toward a common goal When a patrol meets they are working toward some common goal. In the work place everyone has a common goal that they share. Being in a patrol will help a young man learn how to identify his and others strengths and weaknesses. It will then teach them how to use this strengths and weaknesses. 2.Making Presentations In the work place people are expected to share their results and make presentations. In scouting scouts make presentations. The Senior Patrol Leader presents the annual plan to the committee. Scouts present skills to others. 3.Superversion The higher paying jobs are those of supervisors. Scouting teaches young men how to supversise their peers and encourage them to perform. These are just a few areas that scouting helps young men improve.

Barry: this discussion was not meant to explain the importance of Eagles, simply the importance of the program. The answer to my first question is explained at the end of the post: The most important thing is to get scouts into the program. After that it is about making it fun for each individual scouts and having them reach their personal goals. Each scout will be impacted by the program regardless of their end rank. I guess another question to answer is: Do you have a better experience when you reach your personal goals or when you fail to reach them? My bet is when you reach your personal goals you have a better experience because you feel better about yourself. As adults we need to remember what the scout's goals are for himself. If it is to canoe 50 miles in 2 days then that is the goal we should help him reach. If his goal is to become a more complete scout then we should teach him our scouting skills. Each scout will get what they want out of the program, but we need to be there to help them. ___________ On another note, addressing some of your other concerns: 1. I don't know how a 14 year old becomes a real Eagle Scout. That means that they reach the summit at or before Freshman year in highschool. Most of these kids would not be mature enough to understand the importance of the rank, much less the importance of the things they learned through experience and Merit Badges. Also, how much experience are they going to have? 2. In my troop we stress the importance of skill over the importance of rank advancement. Our scouts that crossed over in March are just now reaching Tenderfoot. They will reach First Class by their First year. However, our goal has been to focus on one skill per month and have compounding review. Scouts are still expected to know the scouting skills. In our area if you know that someone is a scout you expect them to know First Aid and the such. Any advancement after First Class does become personal ambition. If they want to reach Eagle they will. We do have help for them in the roles of Scoutmaster, Assistant Scoutmasters, Advancement Coordinator, Life to Eagle Coordinator, and other adults. 3. Order of the Arrow has lost its lust that it once had. Now days almost all scouts who reach First Class and have camped the requrired 15 nights are elected. Only 1 time in my 10 years with my troop have we not elected someone who was elgible. Order of the Arrow does not drive home the things that it strives to. Those scouts that do talk are not reprimanded. They are simply asked to remain silent. A scout that talks again or again is not removed, but again asked to be silent. I almost think that you could talk the entire time and nothing would happen. The tasks that you are asked to complete are not as complete as the ones you once were. They are now simple things that camp needs done. When you visit back in a year or two it is likely that you won't be able to say "I did that." because many other scouts will have done the same thing. Where's the pride to remain in that?

GernBlansten there is a role for people who work with Advancement. There is diffently a need for an Advancement Coordinator, Life to Eagle Coordinator, and others. I'm sure that in your position you don't get to work with every single scout who has, at one time, registered with your unit. Do you get upset or overly concerened about this? Hopefully not. You're there to help those that are approaching the top of the summit. There to encourage those you just need an extra boost. I'm sure that you know that and therefore aren't upset at the scouts that don't make it to Life or Eagle. Scouting is suppose to fun. It's a game, a game with a purpose.

In the thread that this was spun off of there was a lot of talk about advancement. There was discussion about whose goal should it be, the adults or the scouts? There was discussion about pushing it to hard and causing scouts to loose interest. My question is can you learn and change by simply being in Boy Scouts or do you have to reach Eagle? Something to help us think and answer this question is a simple composition: Out Of 100 Scouts... Of any one hundred boys who become scouts, it must be confessed that thirty will drop out in their first year. Perhaps this may be regarded as a failure, but in later life they will remember that they were in scouting. Of one hundred, only rarely will one ever appear before a juvenile court judge. Twelve of that one hundred will be brought into contact with church and continue to be active members. Six of the one hundred will become elergy. Each of the one hundred will learn something from scouting. Almost all will develop hobbies that will add intrest throughout the rest of their lives. Approximately one-half will serve in the military and in varying degrees profit from their scout training. At least one will use what they learn in souts to save another persons life and many will credit it with saving their own. Two of the one hundred will become Eagle Scouts, and one will later say that he valued his Eagle above his college degree. Many will find their future vocation through merit badge work and scouting contacts. Seventeen of the hundred boyswill later become scout leaders and will give leadership to additional boys. Only one in four boys in America will become Scouts, but of the leaders in the nation in business, religion, and politics, three out of four were scouts. _________ Simply Put: About 5 out of 100 become Eagle Scouts, but all are in some way impacted by Scouts. Before you push a scout who is not advancing ask him what his goals are. If he does not answer "becoming an Eagle Scout" don't be offended. As an adult help him reach his personal goals, not the goals that you have in mind.

Scouts, as students and memembers of other organizations, already have tons of fundraisers where they are expected to sell!!! We as adults overuse fundraisers that sell something, because they are easier for us to coordinate. Scouts use popcorns, elementary school PTOs use wrapping paper, Student Council sells multiple things. We need to think of other things that we can do. Our troop has 2 fundraisers that go into the general troop account. These are 1. cartridge recycling and 2. canopy rentals. The adults seem to organize these two and therefore we are okay with 100% of the proceeds going into the troop's fund. There are other fundraisers that we do where we try to avoid selling simply a product. We do a Spaghett Dinner and Pancake Breakfast. We have sold water during a summer parade. We have tried other things where instead of selling another product that parents don't want we sell items or services that people desire. Those scouts that are active in our outdoor program become active in our fundraisers because they are not required to sell. The simply have to work an hour or two and that's that. Money that was raised during the event goes into their scout accounts.

Whose really requiring the Scoutmaster to push advancement? The requirements for both the Scoutmaster's Key and the Scoutmaster's Award of Merit include rank advancement. They also include earning the Quality Unit Award, which includes rank advancement. We are setting up the leaders to consider advancement. The other place that we push advancement is during recruitment of Webelos. A den is visting two different troops that meet in the same town and during the same time. However, Troop 1: the scouts are all under First Class. It is clear that they are having fun and are bonded and are working on preparing for the next campout. Troop 2: there is a mixed assortment of advancements. There are older scouts who are Eagle. There are new scouts that are under First Class. The rest are mixed inbetween. The meetings are structured (maybe planned by the adults, maybe planned by the scouts). Most of the scouts are having fun, but some seem to be discussing school or other outside activities. Which one are you more likely to join? Troop 1 or Troop 2. Most parents will push their scouts toward Troop 2. They see rank advancement and then they see success.

It is true that the more you improve the program you offer the more your attendance will increase. We have diffently improved our program and outings during the past 10 years that I have been in my troop and I have certainly saw an increase in recruitment and attendance percentage. our troop does not require 100% attendance. We do track attendance to all activities. However, if a scout is going to miss an activity, meeting or other troop function it is expected that they call their Patrol Leader, and, if they cannot get ahold of the PL, then the Senior Patrol Leader. When they call they need to let the leader know why they are missing the function. If they do this it counts as an "excused absence". If they do not they are absent. Our troop also has requirements for scouts when we do elections. The Senior Patrol Leader and Assistant Senior Patrol Leader have to attend 2/3 of the meetings in the past 6 months and 50% of the outings during the past 2 years. Patrol Leader are expected to attend 1/2 of the meetings in the past six months and 50% of the outings during the past 2 years. After they are elected we stress the fact that they cannot really do their job if they are not present. We let them know that they are expected to set the example and tone for everything, including attendance. Therefore, our PLC does not have a attendance issue. They do not want to let us down.

I turned 18 2 years ago. I lead my troop in popcorn sales every year that we participated. I earned "Scout Dollars". The only prize that our troop offered (we didn't work with Trail Ends regarding their incentives, instead kept more of the money) was the Council Prize. The Council prize was based on dollar amounts and at $1300 gave you a choice between a $200 Savings Bond or a free week at camp. From my personal experiences the following holds true 1.Scouts are not motivated to sell popcorn. 2.Most of the sales come from parents when the sell to coworkers 3.Another large part of the sales come from immediate and extended family members. Scouts do not think about calling them on their own. The are encouraged by parents. 4. The final, small, part come from, probably, a single day when scouts hit up a couple of their nearby neighbors. So in our troop we have started to encourage scouts to sell popcorn. We offer incentives during the saling period, besides just "Scout Dollars". They may be for one or more of the following things: 1. Sale popcorn to at least 3 teachers 2. Sale at least $250.00 3. Ask your pastor or the pastor of our Chartered Organization 4. Ask our Chartered Organization Represenative 5. or other simliar things We promise the scouts a prize. One week we'll pick an incentive, guarentee a prize, and the following check it and give them the prize. It gets them to bring their popcorn sheets and therefore popcorn stays on their mind. Most are willing to sell for our incentives. Something else we do before we start selling is talk over how to properly sale (presentations and things to bring) and things not to do. It's an interactive discussion. I don't know if this gets scouts to actually fill their order form (I'm not the troop's popcorn kernal, just the person that offers the incentives). The sales at least have gone up.

There is a difference between a district volunteer and a unit volunteer and even more so when something is printed and distrubted to multiple units. That difference is that district volunteers work under the direction of a paid executive who is constantly trained about the policies and guidelines of Boy Scouts. Unit volunteers work under the direction of a unit committee and, possibly (although for most it seems not likely), the direction of a chartered organization head. I doubt that there are very many who understand all of the laws that govern the IRS, tax collection, and the use of charitable money donations.

The quoted section states that "The funds can also be used for the payment of Scouting related purchases that need to be made for the fulfillment of a Scouting activity. This can be for uniforming, needed equipment, provisions for a trip, and other items. All these expenses must be directly related to the Scouting program." Stated is that it may be used for needed equipment that is needed for the fulfillment of a Scouting activity. A backpack for a hiking trip would be needed equipment to fulfill a scouting activity. A canoe paddle for a canoe trip would be necessary. I know that our district states the same thing as the one that I quoted. Since their is a disagreement I may look for an actual answer tommorow, perhaps actually contacting an IRS personal.

In our unit scouts are given opitions inregards to remaining scout account money: 1)If they transfer---in the next thirty days the Troop Treasurer must have received a letter asking that the monies be transfered to the new unit. Any money in their Scout Account is transferred. 2)If they age out---the money can be transfered from their account into the account of a younger brother. 3) If neither of the above two happen the money is allotted back to the troop''s general account. In regards to the use of Scout Account money for personal equipment and uniforming most Districts and Councils recommend the use of the money for the purpose of such things. In our annual planning conference packet we receive a form that explains how Personal Accounts should be established for the use of outings and equipment. A simple search online can find different Council policies mentioning the use of scout accounts. One district website words it as "The funds in a Scout Account can be used for the payment of registration fees, camping fees, summer camp fees, council activity fees, high adventure fees, Scouting books, etc. All such payments must be for Scouting related activities. The funds can also be used for the payment of Scouting related purchases that need to be made for the fulfillment of a Scouting activity. This can be for uniforming, needed equipment, provisions for a trip, and other items. All these expenses must be directly related to the Scouting program. If the funds are being used for the reimbursement for a Scouting related purchase, this purchase must be approved by the unit committee. This is normally done by presenting an explanation and the purchase receipts at a unit committee meeting. The unit may establish rules that cover commonly occurring expenses such as uniform purchases." Most Councils also make recommendations to each unit regarding "leftover money". The same district states: "Each unit needs to establish clear rules as to what happens when a Scout does not reregister with the unit. The funds, although they are currently allocated to an individual, are the funds of the unit. It is not uncommon that if there are funds left in an account when a Scout does not reregister that this money is held in stasis for a period of time in case the Scout comes back or joins another unit. After this time period, the funds should be deallocated from the individual and transferred to the general unit fund. During the time the funds are in stasis, the funds in the account can be transferred to another Scouting unit. If the unit decides, the funds can still used for Scouting related activities or purchases by the individual under the same rules as other uses or purchases. An inactive Scout Account in can be transferred to another family member in Scouting, or it can be held in stasis for a younger family member that will be joining the unit. The length of time that a terminated account can be held in stasis for an upcoming family member is a unit committee decision. The funds in a Scout Account can never be simply paid out to a Scout or leader that leaves the unit. To do so would be a violation of the designated use of the funds and will get you in trouble with the IRS." The website for the above mentioned district is: http://www.dwcbsa.org/districts/arrowhead/HowTo/ScoutAccounts.html

SPL: "Mr. Scoutmaster Jon hasn''t showed up to a couple of meetings. He''s the Scribe, so Dillon, the Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, did the attendance." In the other scenario''s presented there is only 1 opition. Call the Scribe and find out why he isn''t coming to meetings. When you find out that he''s having difficulty with homework and has had to miss meetings to get some extra tutoring you say okay and invite him back when he has some free time. Meanwhile, your Assistant Senior Patrol Leader continues to track attendance and perhaps even take the offical notes during the Patrol Leader''s Council meeting. Even though the ASPL has been performing the tasks the Scribe stays in his position (and therefore getting credit) simply because you have no procedures for removing him.

" That means when you run into the problems of scouts not performing as you would expect, you either have to learn a different way of counseling and guiding, or you have to lower your expectations. " Why would you lower the expectations? This does not make sense to me. Each position has several responsiblities. My concern is not about getting each responsiblity to meet your expectations, but to get each responsiblity performed. If each responsiblity is not being performed then the position is not being fullfilled. Guidance and direction can only do so much. There comes a time where those in charge need to ask if the position is actually getting done. If not a change needs to be made. As a 15 year old I was released from my first real job. It is something that happens. Perhaps if a scout is asked to leave their position then they will learn that each job has responsiblities that need to perform, if not there are consequences. I feel that if a scout is allowed to not actually fullfill are the responsibilites of their position and get credit that the may learn that medicorcey is okay.

Okay, so the overhelming opinion is that the evaluation is not something that should be supported. How, then, do you get all the scouts you put into positions to actively fullfill their position. Is it something along the lines of if the scouts don''t at first fullfill their position they are not put into a new one until the promise to do better? I hardly believe that everyone else''s troop gets all their scouts to perform their jobs.

As I informed everyone in my pervious post I am an Assistant Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster of our troop gives that Scoutmaster Report that is detailed in the Troop Committee Guidebook: pg. 33 "Reports Scoutmaster (troop progress, actions of patrol leader''s council, disciplinary problems, attendance, monthly outing plans, other troop needs)" According to the Troop Committee Guidebook the "committee interacts with the patrol leader''s council through the Scoutmaster." It does not mention anything about the Senior Patrol Leader. The evaluations are done by the Assistant Senior Patrol Leader. He is responsible for "training and giving direction to the quartermaster,...." I personally feel that this will allow the Assistant Senior Patrol Leader a chance to actually see where the scouts are that he is to provide training and direction to. This will allow him to actually see their responsiblities in writing and then determine in which direction they need to go. I would believe and hope that, as John-in-KC said, "I suspect the reports will become blah blah blah same as last month nothing new stream of conciousness" becomes true. If the Assistant Senior Patrol Leader can report the same thing to the Patrol Leader''s Coucnil then that will mean, under the evaluation process, that all of our positions are being maximized and running efficiently. I know of few troops that can say that everyone from the Senior Patrol Leader down to the Historian is doing exactly what they are suppose to be doing. Our goal is to have the status quo change from not really expecting a whole lot from some positions to expecting everyone to pull their own share. Also if there is additional coaching because of this, why is that bad? Have we as a program come to a point where instead of encouraging and coaching each scout to do something with their position that we simply say I know Johnny won''t do anything so let''s make him Historian? As adults we are suppose to be coaching and allowing our scouts to develope into leaders. If this only last a few months, then it at least it lasted a few months. It will show the Senior Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, and other leaders that they have the power to introduce new guidelines, policies, and important decisions to the troop by going through the Patrol Leader''s Council and then working with the Troop Committee. Our troop has really only been boy led for the last 6 years. The troop committee still has an opinion that all decisions need to be first presented to them. Maybe this lasting will be a small step in changing that opinion.

I don''t know if there is anything scouting related for this requirement online, but I think I might come up with something for our scouts to complete.