gwd-scouter

Hi JMHawkins and welcome to the forum. Cub Scouting is so much fun and I hope you and your son have a good time in the Pack.

In reply to your comment about notices at private schools. When the District Executive (the paid professional in your area) contacts the schools to do recruiting, it is dependent on that school giving its permission. It may be that the school your son attends did not want a recruiting drive done there. I know in my town, we have many private schools - some allow recruiting, some don't. Even some of our public schools do not allow the DE to hand out flyers or conduct a scouting night.

Popcorn. Well, that's a sore subject with a lot of people. The timing of the sale is bad because it comes at the same time of year that children are back in school and most likely trying to sell wrapping paper, fruit, cookie dough, etc. etc. to raise money for PTO, Band, boosters, whatever. Also, the sale comes at the same time that new families are recruited to scouting, so it will seem like "welcome to the Pack, now go sell something." I suppose the Pack could wait a year until asking the new families to participate in raising much needed funds to help the Pack's operations, but I don't think that's a fair solution.

I agree that Pack meetings should not be an hour of adult announcements. On the other hand, if this was the first pack meeting after recruiting a bunch of new parents and boys, the Pack leaders may have thought it was the best method to get out a lot of information all at one time. You note that the 2nd Pack meeting was better. Another thought is that during scout nights at schools, much of the information about the Pack, the Dens, and Cub Scouting is given at that meeting. Since you joined the Pack without this initial meeting, it makes sense that you would be unaware of a lot of things. Even more so that the Pack leadership was unaware of you. Having been a Cubmaster for years, I had school nights and also folks just walking in on meeting nights to register. A pack meeting is a busy time with existing parents and new parents all wanting a piece of the Cubmaster's time. Just a personal observation.

Welcome back to Scouting. From your post it seems you had a great experience in the program as a boy and hopefully your son will also.

"A caring person who doesn't know something, will quickly learn it, a non-caring person will sit for hours in training and walk away with nothing."

We may not always agree on things in this forum, but I agree with you on this one Stosh!

Wow, John, I have to say I've never in my sixteen years of Scouting ever attended a roundtable such as you describe. Talk about the perfect world of Scouting!

Here in my District, where the real world seems to have settled, the same ol' folks come to hear the same ol' announcements. I go because I need to speak to the DE, talk about something with another SM, bounce an idea off another, or just to say hi to the the folks.

We don't get any cookies or prizes either. Sheesh.

edited for typo(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

For the past several years, our fall camporee has been based on scout skills competitions. I've seen the numbers of troops drop off year after year. This year, only four troops attended. Our two patrols were quite proud of themselves that they won several ribbons, even a couple of first place ribbons, in the competitions - especially since that meant they beat the "mega" troop that always wins everything every year. Like another poster mentioned, that particular troop practices all the activity rotations for about a month ahead of time so their patrols are very well prepared for the camporee.

This year, the reason most troops gave for not attending was that another Council close to us was holding a very large event and had invited Troops from our Council to attend as well. That event was the weekend before our District Camporee and the troops just didn't want to do something two weekends in a row.

I have heard from guys in other troops, and a few in ours, that they had become tired of trying to compete against the mega troop. But, after winning a few times this year, I think our guys have had a change of heart.

Still, the scheduling of our District Fall Camporee is always difficult. It is around the same time as our Council OA Fall Fellowship, football takes a lot of the older guys away, marching band takes more with football games every Friday and band competitions on Saturdays. I have often thought that perhaps the competition type camporee could be held in the spring and then a more novel idea used for the fall.

Just time for a little more training, a well worded SM minute, and get back on with the program. No reason to remove the PL for this. I know from experience in a small troop that your PL many times will fill a spot on the duty roster, especially as you indicated he has a special recipe the guys want him to cook. We've come across that from time to time when our troop was only one patrol.

Same thing happened to us on a recent campout. It was the first campout for our newly formed patrols. Last spring we grew from 9 to 22 scouts. Had two new scout patrols for the summer and then turned those new scout patrols into two mixed age patrols by moving in the core group. Patrols were camped a fair distance away from the adults (we could see and hear them), and the PLs were trying out their leadership for the first time on a campout. One group of boys, without their PL's knowledge, decided it would be fun to take a dip in the lake. PL didn't know about it, neither did the SPL or any of the adults, until one boy showed up at the adult site soaking wet.

I summoned the SPL, who called for the PL, who went down to get the guys out of the lake. A teachable moment for the SPL, the PL, the guys, and for me.

I agree that if the SM is considering removing the PL, he ought to consider removing everyone up the chain. The PL wasn't babysitting his guys. Well, the SM wasn't babysitting the PL either. Not going to happen. We are supposed to train the boys and then give them the space to use that training without hovering over them constantly watching their every move. Yep, they will make mistakes, but that is what the "game" is all about.

I joined the forum about a year after becoming Scoutmaster for our at that time dysfunctional troop. I knew it wasn't working, but really had no idea how to turn things around. I had a goal, a vision, the various handbooks, and all the training, but didn't know how to take the small bites out of the big elephant.

Reading the posts on this forum helped me to prioritize those bites. I have always been especially interested in the patrol method posts. Ours was a small troop and was never sure how to go about the boy leadership. In the past, PORs were handed out like candy - everyone over 1st class had a patch - but, there were no clear responsibilities. Reading posts here I realized that not all PORs needed to be filled and we started out with a bare minimum. Since we essentially only had one patrol, we did away with the SPL position - something I learned here. The guys liked the title of SPL, but we really only had a PL.

Another thing I learned here was how important it is to talk to parents of incoming Scouts to help them understand how a Boy Scout Troop operates. This is especially true for Webelos Leaders that are transitioning to Boy Scout Leaders. It takes time for the new leaders and parents to understand that what looks like chaos to them, is boys learning to handle things on their own. Now, I have a meeting just with new parents to answer their questions, ease their concerns. That has really helped.

Now, with 22 scouts, two mixed-aged patrols, and the Awesomeness Patrol of our SPL, ASPL, JASM, and Quartermaster, we have become a functioning Boy Scout Troop and I'm told by many that we are a model of how a Troop should run. Very nice to hear that. Very proud of our guys.

Oh my yes, I've learned a lot over the past five years. I try now to pass on some of that experience. Hopefully, some here find it helpful.

No, a scout may work on a merit badge at any time up until he is 18 years old.

However, some merit badges state that a scout must have knowledge gained from Tenderfoot through 1st class.

For instance, first requirement on first aid merit badge is showing the counselor that the scout has knowledge of first aid from Tenderfoot through First Class.

Pioneering is another example of requirements that a scout know knots, lashings, and first aid from Tenderfoot through 1st Class.

Probably many other examples, but those are the three I know without looking it up.

Uniforms when traveling. Began from experience of guys forgetting to pack their uniform. Wear it to the meeting place and you know you have it. Now, it's just tradition in our troop.

Electronics are OK on long drives to campouts. Once in camp, the boys have been taught that they are there to enjoy nature and each other, not playing a video game or walking around with ear buds. Still having a bit of a problem with the cell phones. I know they can take pictures, but when a scout pulls out his cell I haven't seen him take a picture with it yet.

Poptarts, doughnuts, sodas, candy, etc. for food. We encourage our guys to plan and prepare healthy meals. Not always successful in this. Not much difference really in a breakfast of poptarts or cold candy coated cereal.

Poptarts though are a very handy snack and guys eat them during the day and have nothing for breakfast the next morning. No big problem to me as it has happened before. Just trying to help the guys do work on campouts and not settle for the easy way.

Ramen is OK. Guys usually add something to it, like chopped chicken, ham, or SPAM.

No sodas or candy. Empty calories. Candy has been a problem many times. Well meaning Mom thinking little Johnny Scout may get hungry at camp packs a bunch of candy and snacks for him. Candy wrappers and snack debris in the tent. Ants and other bugs next. Upset stomach and sluggish Johnny Scout in camp. No fun for anyone. One time, we had to take upset stomach Johnny Scout to the emergency room. Parents and Johnny Scout learned a BIG lesson on that one.

Yes, the guys learn on their first campout - no food or drinks in tents. Doesn't stop the smugglers some times, though.

Patrols must cook at least one hot meal on a campout that involves more than just boiling water.

No personal gear in the trailer until Quartermaster's OK. It's his job to make sure everything is stowed in the trailer properly and he takes it very seriously.

If you are seen misusing your knife, you must teach the knife safety part of Totin' Chip to another Scout - even if that Scout has already earned Totin' Chip. Side bonus to this is it helps to reinforce the rules to both the offender and the other Scout. Same goes for misusing an axe or hatchet.

And, lastly, my personal favorite arbitrary rule: The Scouts must always refer to me as "Your ladyship, supreme ruler and benefactor of our happiness."

Yes, 6-year-old Zachary was excited about his "camping tool." More than a spork as someone mentioned here, it did include a knife.

What Zachary didn't know was that his parents should have told him not to take it to school. His parents should have known the school policies.

Overkill on Zachary's punishment? Probably. But, until all the folks here and elsewhere that are upset over this stand up and petition their local school boards to change the zero tolerance policies, the policy against knives et al. is the policy and applies to all.

Congratulations to you and your boys. Was wondering what the ages and skill levels are of the boys in the patrol? Just curious.

From MSNBC: This just in....Sean Hannity's head exploded on air today as he was in the middle of reporting that newly named Nobel Peace Prize winner, President Barack Obama, stated he would give away the prize money.

Loyal viewers watched in horror as Hannity's head began to expand as he announced Obama's intentions to turn half the prize winning over to ACORN, the much beleaguered community organization agency.

FOX News Channel ratings rose exponentially as the reporting continued. Neilson Ratings noted the presence of moderates and even liberals tuning in to Hannity's show, an event never before reported.

After reporting about the ACORN donation of half of the prize funds, Hannity was just beginning his tirade about Mr. Obama donating the other half to the church of his former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright.

At that moment, Hannity's head exploded and Fox News Channel ratings became the highest in the history of television.

The explosion was somewhat obscured as the All American Panel leaped across the desk to flee the scene.

Unconfirmed reports from the Huffington Post quote a bystander as stating, "I couldn't believe it, his skull was hollow - no brains spewed out at all."

Glen Beck, host of his own show on Fox, wiped tears from his eyes and sobbed, "I saw the image of Ronald Reagan rise above Hannity's lifeless body." He went on to say, "While, it may not be true, it could be a Norwegian or Swedish, not sure which, vendetta against my colleague's mockery of the Nobel Committee." "I'll be keeping my eye on that," he declared.

Funeral arrangements are still being made, but rumor has it the Mr. Hannity will be buried next to Michael Jackson. The eulogy will be delivered by Michael Moore and Bill Ayers.

Just one more reason to hate Obama.

Like we really needed one.

Wow, Gern, was that really necessary? He didn't nominate himself for the award, nor did he vote for himself. Blame whomever nominated him. Blame the five guys that voted for him.

Sheesh.

Social Security as an entitlement or as mine? Hmmm. I've always wondered about that. Yep, we've all been paying in, just like we pay in to Medicare. I just wonder if anyone ever figured out how much our current retirees are taking out of both of these programs compared to what they paid in.

So the President is taking heat for taking too long to make a decision about Afghanistan. Taking heat for moving too quickly on healthcare reform.

Obviously he gets support for those measures that appeal to the most Americans. Uh, oh really? Let's see: 50% against the current healthcare reform proposals vs. 47% in favor - so let's scrap that because the majority of Americans don't want it.

On the other hand, 51%, the majority, of Americans say the war in Afghanistan is not worth fighting, but obviously they're all wrong and we can't listen to the majority on that issue.

Interesting.

Pack, BBQ sounds great. I'll email you. No, Obama didn't create the divide, but I think his presence has made it worse. Just my opinion, of course.

Yeah, I just love the statistical spin that goes on during the commentary shows. Hate to say it, but I question the intelligence of some of my coworkers and other acquaintances who propagate that commentary and gleefully admit that they don't bother to listen to the other side of the argument, because, as everyone knows, the other side is lying.

Wow Pack, that is certainly an unusually depressing post from you. I'm afraid that I, too, find my optimism waning a bit. Not so much because of the President himself or the things he's trying to do, but because of the ignorant and hateful rhetoric being displayed by media commentary, politicians, and the American population (both left and right folks, but I've found it particularly alarming to hear some of the vitriol from the right). Whether because people hate him because of who he is or because of what he stands for, I'm sorry that the election of President Obama has driven an even larger wedge into the divide in this country.

Oh, my dear Packsaddle. You're obviously just another of the liberal elite nut job college professors ruining the minds of our youth on campuses across the nation. Shame on you for suggesting that students open their minds.

Don't discourage him. A scout only needs a buddy to visit with the counselor. Buddy can be a friend, a parent, whatever - doesn't have to be a fellow scout.

Yeah, I've been wondering what all the Glen Beck fans think of Beck's statement that McCain would have been a worse President than Obama.

Ah, so THAT's what National Youth Leadership Training really is.

Of course it's part of the President's plan. A national youth corps. A woman I saw on C-SPAN during the big DC protest rally (Tea Party Express, I think) said so.

I don't think this was the committee's decision to make. If the PLC decides to have meetings on three day weekend Mondays and two adult leaders can be there, then that's the way it should be. So what if some guys won't be there because their family takes a short vacation. Guys are missing from meetings all the time. Our guys have decided to have meetings on vacation Mondays and sometimes not. Sometimes they decide that the PLC needs to meet on a holiday Monday, sometimes not. Rather depends on plans they have in the works.

It took years for us to get to this point, Buffalo. In the first year or so of our transition, hit and miss many many times. Seemed like for every great moment we had, we had two dismal failures. For the past two years though, the guys have done tremendously well pulling this troop together and, finally, getting us to a point where we were attractive enough and had a strong enough program to recruit so many new scouts last spring.

The three older guys that remember the old ways of our troop (when they were the young guys) look back every now and then and see how far they've come. They like where they are. These three most senior scouts, now 16-17, have really been terrific. Now, in their last year or two of scouting they are proud to run the show, make no bones about the adults staying out of their way, and help the younger guys coming up to take their places. Yes indeed, these guys want to make sure they leave the troop in good hands.

Hey Barry, I just love this scouting stuff.

Buffalo Skipper - yes, I know that. I was just saying that we've never done a PLC only campout before and I thought it was a good idea.

BrentAllen - no, I don't think I have thicker skin than anyone else. I've just been doing this scouting thing and dealing with adults and boys for a long time. If all of our troop's parents were like this Mom, I would have throw in the towel a long time ago. As it is, she really is the only one in our troop (at least for now) that is not supportive of my attempts to help these guys be the best scouts they can be.

In an interesting twist, this scout was selected by our new SPL to be his ASPL. There were better choices, but the others from which he could have chosen are also in marching band with him and therefore would be gone for the next several months for Friday night camp set up and full weekends for band competitions. So, SPL essentially killed two birds with one stone - difficult scout did not run for patrol leader and hopefully will gain some insight and experience working with the SPL, and has the responsibility of being present those times in the next couple of months when SPL can't be.

I like the idea of a PLC campout. We've always done the training on a Saturday at my home, but a campout would be a better and more fun way to do training.