gwd-scouter

Hal makes a very good point about the motivation of an older boy joining scouts. He's made a decision to do so rather than just crossing over from cubs or because his parents think it's something he should do.

I remember working with the DE on that when I was a Cubmaster. Matched up the roster of Webelos that crossed over from the Pack with the rosters of Troops to find out which boys did not continue on to Boy Scouting. I assume other units were asked to do that too. Yes, it was to find out why we lose so many scouts in the Webelos to Boy Scout transition. Once in a while after I joined the Troop, I would get a call from the DE to find out why scouts were not being rechartered. I gotta say, sometimes he would make me feel guilty when I would simply state the a guy was dropped because he quit - just wasn't interested in scouting.

A couple of years ago, the DE presented a list at roundtable that had all the names and phone numbers of Webelos from throughout the District that did not join a Boy Scout Troop. The list was up for grabs for any Troop to make calls and ask if the boys wanted to join. I suppose there wasn't much success because it hasn't been repeated.

Listen to a woman's suggestion? Funny.

Last week and this week we are having multiple Boards of Review for Tenderfoot for 12 new Scouts. It certainly was lively last week and I expect the same this Monday.

One problem we have is that almost all of the new adults signed up as ASMs. Not a huge problem to have, but I was hoping for more Committee folks. A few of those new ASMs have already taken some training and are eager to finish with Outdoor Leader Skills in the fall. Others haven't done any training yet and don't seem likely to do so. Talked with our Troop Committee Chair and she is going to call all of the new leaders and some other parents as well and ask them personally to take on some of our open Committee positions (especially those that don't seem inclined to do the ASM training). I'm thrilled that she is going to do this. Since our Troop has grown so much we will need some extra folks to do BORs.

We don't have regularly scheduled BORs. When a guy needs one, it usually only takes a week for our Advancement Chair to line up some folks. However, one benefit I see of having regularly scheduled BORs is that it can give a guy a deadline to finish requirements.

new domain name for our troop site:

www.troop313bsa.com

Patrick got two of his friends to join the troop when they were 13 and 14. One had been in Cubs and had a miserable time and took some convincing to get him to join. He worked very hard at the early ranks, mostly because he didn't like that younger boys outranked him. He could be seen on campouts reading his handbook - imagine that! That fellow is turning 16, is Star rank, and leaving this morning with my son to work his second summer at camp. The other was in Cub Scouts for a couple of years and crossed over to a troop. He dropped out after his first summer camp. He is now seventeen, a Life Scout, and starting to plan his Eagle project.

A few weeks ago the 13 year old brother of one of our new scouts joined. He was a bit hesitant at first because he thought he'd be put in one of the new scout patrols. Nope. He was put with the middle school guys patrol. SPL and another scout have been working with him to get him trained on Tenderfoot through First Class requirements. All of our new scouts are going through the first year camper program at camp, but not this boy. He's taking merit badges and is really excited about it - especially shotgun shooting. Fun stuff.

It is possible to get and keep older scouts that join. Just be sure not to treat them like they are 11 years old. Yes, they have to have the training needed for camping and high adventure treks (if your troop does such), but in my observations the older boys have a much easier time learning the ropes (pun intended).

At our Council Exporee last month, one of the District Executives was demonstrating a new popcorn prize - a plastic rifle that shoots mini marshmallows. He was pointing it at young scouts who were trying to catch the marshmallows in their mouths.

The little boy came home one day,

His smile big and bright.

"I want to be a Cub Scout, Mom,

The sign-ups are tonight."

He joined that night and so began

His early Scouting life.

From Tiger Cubs to Webelos,

And finally the Arrow of Light.

The little boy came home one day

And his Mother had no doubt.

That the little boy had grown somehow,

Her son the First Class Scout.

Through the early ranks he flew,

While learning Scouting things.

But, his trail became more difficult,

As he reached for Eagles wings.

The little boys mother came home one day,

but the boy was not about.

She saw a young man in his place,

Her son, the Eagle Scout.

Now hes reached the final peak

His sights set to the sky.

The mother will look with tear-filled eyes,

And watch her Eagle fly.

I wrote this poem for my son who is sitting for his Eagle Board of Review tonight. I'm very proud of him.

What an amazing night last night. All the Tenderfoot guys showed up in full uniform for their Boards of Review. Advancement Chair called in all the adults and we had three boards going on simultaneously. Seven new Tenderfoot Scouts minted last night and three or four more for next week.

Each review board had an experienced person along with two newbies. I heard from each of the experienced scouters that the new folks really did a great job and enjoyed talking with the Scouts. Bodes very well for the future of our now good sized troop.

As far as I knew, the PLC didn't really have a plan for last night. Patrick is a Troop Guide but he was busy sitting for his Eagle SM Conference. So SPL gathered up the guys waiting their turn for a Tenderfoot Board of Review and had them outside doing something. Not sure what, but they were all looking through their handbooks so I suppose he was talking to them about 2nd and 1st class stuff.

Our other Troop Guide, our JASM, and the guys in the Dynamite Patrol had all the other new guys finishing up their Tenderfoot fitness requirements - for those guys that didn't come on Saturday. Practicing some other things too.

Had another new Scout join last night and sign up for summer camp.

What was I doing? Spending my time just talking to parents about summer camp coming up, congratulating guys after their Boards, hanging out having a really good evening.

Fun fun fun.

Meet in the basement and camp in the woods. I remember about ten years ago a fellow scouter expressing that same concern, almost those same words. He was pushing for us to hold the roundtable meetings, or at least the district committee meetings, in a public place such as a restaurant or coffee house. That never happened but what did happen was a bigger push to put things in our local newspapers about what the scouts do. Almost weekly there is a photo and story or short caption about scouts collecting food, scouts doing service projects, Eagle projects, visiting somewhere, etc.

All that helps folks in town know we are here. It still doesn't give them a clear picture of what we do other than helping out the community once in a while.

I wonder though if that hasn't always been the case? Were scouts more visible in decades past? When did the 'helping little old ladies cross the street' image form? We read so many posts about older scouts being embarrassed to wear their uniforms in public because of the perception that scouting is lame. The words used today are different but I remember my brothers being teased about being in scouts in the 60s, and I too suffered some taunts when I was seen in my girl scout dress back then.

And, speaking of Girl Scouts, seems like most people have an image of Girl Scouts as only being an organization that sells cookies. I know in this area that's the only time we ever see the girls.

Yesterday was a beautiful Saturday here in South Carolina. Almost all of our new Scouts have completed all the requirements for Tenderfoot, but some still needed the 30 day retest for fitness. We have a Court of Honor coming up just before we leave for summer camp.

So, we put together a Tenderfoot fitness day yesterday at the church. Any guys that wanted to could come and do their retest. One of the Troop Guides and our SPL were there to work with the new guys. Several ASMs were there along with our Advancement Chair. I was rather surprised at the turn out. Not only did the guys do the fitness retest, but some practiced knots and flag folding.

One guy that just joined our troop a couple of weeks ago is an eighth grader. Very eager to learn, but worried about being treated like the younger new guys. SPL spent the most time with him individually working on the Tenderfoot requirements. Being a bit older, new Scout breezed through the stuff and was very excited about showing me what he learned. We talked for a bit and let him know about another boy in our Troop that joined when he was 13. Talked about how advancement will come if he works hard, but age and maturity will open doors to adventure for him too. Three years later, that now 16 year old is a soon to be Life Scout, been hiking and camping with his buddies without adults, and working his 2nd summer at camp. Mom tells me that older new scout is really excited about scouting now and can't wait for summer camp.

Another new Scout brought along a friend to check us out. Love that peer recruiting.

Figured since we were there, I'd go ahead and do SM Conferences for those that were ready. I really enjoyed that. Lovely day to sit on a bench under a tree and chat with the new guys.

All said they were having a good time in the Troop. All said they liked the patrol they were in and the guys in it. Most mentioned on their own that they thought their Troop Guide was cool. All seemed nervous and few made eye contact with me. By the end of the conference each and every boy was smiling, laughing, and actually looking at me. Yay!

The best part was some of the things the boys said. The guys in the patrol that burnt their breakfast on the last campout all had something to say about that. They made comments about how it was neat that their parents aren't telling them what to do anymore, but it is also hard. The older guys are cool. Some expressed concern that they aren't ready to go on a hike on their own without adults. The senior scouts did just that last spring and I guess the new guys think we're going to turn them loose before they are ready. They were excited about summer camp coming up and other things we're doing this summer. Some asked what else we are doing this year which led to a brief chat about the annual planning meeting. Big eyes and smiles when they learned that THEY get to plan what they do, not the adults.

I was struck by their honesty. In some cases, their answers led me to realize I need to work with one of the Troop Guides a bit more.

If the scout was OK with it, I asked one of our new ASMs to sit in and observe the conference. That way, the new ASM could learn what the conferences were supposed to be about and will be able to help me out in the future. I still like to do the SM conferences myself, but with 24 boys now in the Troop I can see times when I'll have to delegate that responsibility. Yep, most of those new ASMs thought the SM Conference was supposed to be a retest.

A very pleasant day. I've been a bit tired recently and this was just the rejuvenation I needed.

To borrow a phrase, I just love this Scouting Stuff.

We always go to our Council camp. We have very high participation, with guys going back year after year. The guys start out with the first year camper program, then for the next couple of years do merit badges, fun stuff, etc., and then for the first time this year three of our senior scouts (16 and 17 years old) are doing the high adventure program.

I do feel somewhat obligated to the council, but a better reason that I like our council camp is simply that is just an awesome site with terrific programs and wonderful staff. From what I hear from the boys, they think so too. Of course, they have nothing to compare it to since we've never gone anywhere else. A guy could go to our camp for five years without doing anything the same as the years past.

It is not unusual in our troop for a scout to attend camp for four or more summers. We always go the same time - 2nd session in June. Several other troops in our District attend then, too.

No one has ever brought up going to an out of council camp. I don't really know why. It is more expensive to go out of council and our in council camp is very reasonably priced - $185 per scouts, $95 adults.

Elections were held. We now have 23 scouts on the roster and 18 showed up for elections. Three guys eligible. Thought we would have four, but the fourth guy just isn't motivated to finish his remaining first class rank requirement. Oh well, there's always next year for him.

In any case, all three guys were elected and will have their ordeal in a few weeks when we go to summer camp. Really interesting how the vote tallies came in. Of the three, one got 16 votes, one 14 and one 10. If I had to rank the guys eligible, I would have put them in that order.

Every now and then, it's nice to be reminded that young guys for the most part can use and do have good judgment.

Final signatures received on project. Personal Fitness merit badge completed. Paperwork filled out. Eagle SM Conference scheduled for June 1st. District Advancement Chair is lining up some folks to do Patrick's BOR while he's at summer camp since most of the folks attend the same week as our Troop. Patrick will be working there all summer, but is taking the week off our Troop attends so that he can do the high adventure program.

A new Eagle in our Troop, a proud moment as Scoutmaster. Younger son joining older brother as an Eagle - an even greater proud moment for Mom and Dad.

We placed an order for the Troop. Saved on shipping that way. Almost everyone ordered shorts and/or the old style switchbacks. Even got a bunch of merit badge sashes.

Welcome to the forum spl229.

Can you give us a bit more information?

How many guys in your Troop?

How many patrols?

How were the patrols set up before the Committee made the change - mixed age, same age groups.

What is the age distribution in your troop? A lot of new scouts, a lot of older scouts, or an even mix?

Were your older scouts actively engaged with the younger guys, or did they ignore them?

I might pay real money to see you moon-walk!

Still alive? Thanks, Packsaddle. I can always count on you to brighten my day...

Funny, but I do sometimes look into the mirror and still see a young woman looking back. Of course, I remember thinking when my mother was the same age as I am now that she was REALLY OLD!

Oh yes, I know very well that building a troop is not about membership or advancement only. In my case, this sudden influx of new scouts makes it seem that our troop is starting over. Over the past year our nine guys really have done marvelously well together. Sure, they aren't all scouty scouts and, seriously, who would want that? Very boring I think.

Maybe I became complacent in the comfort zone of our little troop. In all honesty that is probably more true than I care to admit. I know a couple of our guys expressed concern about more than doubling our troop size almost over night. Always impressed by the wisdom of some of those young guys.

Indeed we are bottom heavy with young scouts, almost like starting a new troop. Our three oldest most senior scouts are entering 11th and 12th grade. No, they are not quitting scouts by any means - they love our program since they are most responsible for making it what it is - but I do see they are very eager to turn over the reigns of leadership to our handful of middle school guys. Interesting to me how these three older guys are more critical of the upcoming junior leaders' capabilities than I am. At least they see where training is needed and are willing to help them learn.

Nope, no angel wing holes in their shirts either. It wasn't very long ago that they were clueless and somewhat selfish scouts taking on leadership for the first time. Even though none of the guys in the troop now were there at the time, the legend lives on about the year Patrick stood in as SPL since our then SPL didn't go to summer camp and the "beating" he gave to another guy with a broom.

As I said in my original post, it will certainly be an interesting and challenging year. The middle school guys are going to have to step off the shoulders of the older guys and start learning to work together better. They will carry on the hard work done on their behalf by the adults and older boys that turned our troop around to what a boy scout troop should be.

The large group of new scouts and parents/adult leaders will know nothing else than a patrol method boy led troop. For several years we operated as one patrol with the idea in mind that the guys would understand the concept and would be ready when the day came that we would recruit a bunch of scouts and could actually form two or more patrols. That day has arrived. We are experiencing some growing pains, though. Senior Scouts pulled away to work as Troop Guides with the New Scout Patrols has forced our middle schoolers to act more on their own. So far they aren't doing particularly well, but I see glimmers of hope. Seriously, when our glorified senior scouts were in middle school and taking on leadership for the first time, they were pretty horrible at it too.

Experienced Scouters will help the new adults to see that while to the untrained eye what goes on may seem like chaos, it is a part of a great troop in action.

Ten more years Eamonn? Not likely. At least not 10 more as SM. I really am enjoying the job, but I do see a time coming when I should step down and let the younger folks take over. Then again, I'm reminded of something one of our new scouts said. He looked up at me and said, "Mrs. B., this is going to sound like an insult but will you still be my SM when I make Eagle - you're kind of old."

You bet I'll remember that at his Eagle ceremony!

We didn't use Den Chiefs for Tiger dens precisely for the reason you mentioned. The Tigers are each supposed to have an adult partner and it just seemed a Den Chief wouldn't have much to do. Den Chiefs are certainly a valuable resource, although unfortunately a much overlooked resource, for the Wolf through Webelos years.

Deep breath in, deep breath out.... Ahhhhhh

Sorry folks for my uncharacteristic churlishness in this thread.

Now, back to your regular programming.

Amy, let it go. On your own you admitted surprise that this thread got so much attention. Why continue to feed it? You know what you are going to do, you have been given the 'correct' answer by forum members that your CM cannot 'make' you take any more scouts in your den.

You and others have made it very clear that you don't agree with those that think your decision is a bit short sighted. OK then, let it go, do your best with the den of boys that you have, good luck to you. Why do you continue to post on this thread? If you're happy with your decision and glad that some folks on the forum agree with you, why continue to make a post to argue your point to folks that clearly aren't listening?

Beavah, an engraved invitation from the Founder would be lovely. Where can I get one of those?

Sometimes I post things not necessarily because I'm looking for answers, but to give others, especially new members to the forum, a chance to see that things happening in their Troop are likely not unusual. Perhaps they can then gain some insight on what's been tried and failed, what's been tried and worked, and finally what may work in their situation.

I certainly learned a lot during my first year of merely lurking on the forum before I got up the nerve to actually ask a question.

Pack, do you place yourself among the misfit faculty? Yes, I will certainly maintain my sense of humor. Otherwise, I'd go mad....or, perhaps I'm already there.

Guess I'll just have to disagree with the optimal number in a den being eight. To me, an optimal number is whatever the den leader and assistants are willing and comfortable to handle. In Amy's case, that number is eight. However, that is not the case for others. Back in my old CM days we were the mega Pack in town. Always around 120 boys any given year. Most dens had more than eight boys. One in particular I remember well always had somewhere in the range of 12-16 boys all through the Tiger to Webelos years. That particular den leader was outstanding, had at least two ADLs and a Den Chief.

Back then when we did school roundups we never had any fifth graders signing on and at best two or three fourth graders. Our Webelos den leaders always absorbed the boys that came to school night. There was simply no way to form a brand new den, with a brand new leader, with only two or three scouts.

Amy, while you may want to limit your den to eight boys (and that is certainly your right to do so), what will happen in the fall if one or two fourth graders want to join? Again, as you and others state it is not your responsibility, but you have posted that one of your concerns for taking on two more boys now is that you may take a few more in the fall. Seems a bit contradictory to me. If your line is drawn at eight and you are sticking to that, then it shouldn't matter how many guys sign up in the fall. It will be up to the CM and Committee to make sure those boys have a den leader.

I do hope for your CM and Committee that they are able to find a den leader for the four leaderless boys and that in the fall are able to recruit a few more to make a den with a reasonable chance for success. Nothing turns a guy off to crossing over to Boy Scouts more than a lousy Cub Scout experience.

Maybe I'm feeling particularly ornery today, but after reading through the thread again I can say at least for myself that I had a very strong negative reaction from the initial post. Thought about it for a while, thought I reached a level of objectivity, and then came back later to read a new posting. Perhaps not Amy's intent, but the posts come across as very isolationist - our group is just perfect the way it is and we don't want outsiders mucking it up. Perhaps again not her intent, but it certainly doesn't appear to me that she was seeking advice at all. Rather, after receiving confirmation that she's doing the right thing from Eamonn she signs off and wishes us well.

I really like the guys in our Troop. They come from different family dynamics, different economic circumstances, different schools, different everything. Having just received a large bunch of new Scouts, our Troop is in something of disarray at the moment. Unlike other troops, ours is not filled with natural gangs of friends or even just two guys that have been buddies for years. Our three oldest scouts have been friends since childhood, but they are the exception.

I read on the forum about Troops of boys that get along well, have bonded in their patrols, work hard, play fairly, and in general help create an easy going, fun spirited, enviably perfect Troop. Even have a couple of those in my district if what I hear from other Scouters is true. Then again, maybe they only paint the rosy picture and leave out the nasty details.

By comparison I would say my Troop attracts the misfits. Oh yes, we have a great many scouty scouts that are always helpful, cheerful in the face of adversity, try to do their best in any given situation. Some of them are our new scouts, some our existing scouts. Friendships are forming. Then there are those boys, old and new, that see their world in a 'what's in it for me' fashion. Those boys that are just downright lazy. Those boys that suddenly get 'sick' when it's time to work, but magically are cured when the fun begins. Those boys that have no respect for their junior leaders and are very happy telling others what to do. The amazingly immature boys and, unfortunately, the parents that enable them.

I see the year ahead full of challenges and opportunities for growth and maturity, not only for the scouts but for the adult and junior leaders as well. It will certainly be interesting.