gwd-scouter

Yep, this thread pops up every now and then. I've been SM for our troop for six years and, yes, I am a female - the only female SM in our District and I think currently in our Council. In our case, the Troop would no longer exist if I hadn't stepped up six years ago. None of the men were interested.

It certainly wasn't easy in the beginning. Three guys quit the troop immediately after the announcement that I was going to be the new SM. Lots of grumblings and weird looks from some of the old guard scouters. Eventually, though, folks and boys and parents came to find out that I was trying hard to change our adult-led troop to what it should be, could camp with the best of them, held the boys accountable for their actions and had a high bar of expectations, and wasn't going to lead the boys into becoming sissyfied.

The important thing is to find good leaders, not male or female leaders. I've seen as many Dads coddle their sons as I've seen Moms do so.

Besides, as far as I can tell, the only thing a man can teach a boy that a woman can't is how to pee standing up.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

I'm in the same council as Packsaddle and while I've never had the experience he describes in sending in the Eagle app after the 18th birthday, ours does not require letters. Frankly, I'm not even sure they bother to check the references the scout puts on the application.

Still would visit the other Troop.

In the end though, go where the boys want to go and where you think is the best fit for your son. I want to emphasize best fit for YOUR son. While it's nice that all the boys in the den want to stay together, many times folks find out after joining that they may have preferred a different troop rather than the one the group picked.

Boys are different, troops are different. Some boys thrive in a large troop, some do better in a small troop. Some are well suited for a troop with a backpacking emphasis, others maybe will do better with more car camping. Some (mostly parents, here) are interested in quick advancement, others enjoy the experience along the way.

In any case, it is not at all stepping on toes. I really dislike the term "feeder pack" as it implies that the Webelos have no choice but to go to the associated troop. Likewise, the troop gets complacent about active recruiting since they think those cubs are theirs.

Welcome to the forum Mom2Scouts.

Do invite the Den Chief along. The Den Chiefs we've had over the years loved going on campouts with their Dens. He will be a great asset to you and the boys will like having him there, too. What better way for those Webelos to see what a Boy Scout does than to have one along on the campout - setting up his own tent, taking care of himself. Marvelous!

Wow, my old post revived from 3 1/2 years ago? Amazing.

The older guys staying as far away from the younger scouts as possible, playing Magic and D&D, doesn't sound much like Scouting to me.

Thanks Pack and OGE - I really needed a laugh today. Snorted the soda right out of my nose when I just read your posts. Not very feminine at all.

Hey Mikemeyer - welcome to the forum. I used to live in Gaithersburg. Lovely area of Montgomery County.

Perhaps Lem will be replaced by a female SM? The boys in the town won't be a bunch of wayward fellas looking for mischief, but a group of affluent overly-scheduled guys whose parents want to make sure they can add Eagle Scout to their resumes. Or, maybe, the court scene will not be about a "senile" old lady that wants to give her land to a bunch of scouts, but rather about a lawsuit filed over the Boy Scout's exclusionary practices.

Oh yeah, so much new material since the original.

"effete impudent snobs"

Oh, I like that one so much I'll cop to it. Heh heh.

kcs-hiker - are you from my town?

Speaking as another "liberal" in a very conservative small southern town, yes, you can still be a leader. You may find out to your surprise that there are a lot of other like-minded (but silent) folks such as yourself. The reason I put liberal in quotes is because that is how I've been labeled here. Some of the things I've been accused of believing are, quite frankly, unbelievable.

A long time ago I encountered that same kind of behavior among some adults on campouts. Not being a shy retiring type, I just spoke up and asked if that's the kind of conversation and language they'd like to hear from their scouts. Didn't make me very popular at times, but it did change the conversation. I am fortunate now that I have a great bunch of adults in the Troop. Yes, mostly conservative, but they conduct themselves the same way I expect from the boys. Anyone can share their opinion or views of things, in fact it's encouraged to have spirited debate and conversations about a lot of topics in our Troop. However, the conversation is cut off and a few appropriate words from me if someone becomes disrespectful of another's views, makes outlandish claims or statements simply to be hurtful, or if the conversation becomes merely a shouting match.

I've been criticized in the past by a couple of parents for allowing the boys to discuss religion, politics, whatever. That criticism has always come from the very conservative folks that don't want their boy exposed to anything other than their views on things. I'm sure they'd be very willing to let their son participate in a discussion of religion or politics on a campout as long as it mirrored their own religious or political views.

I'm sorry your weekend was spoiled by those folks and it's really too bad you don't have any other options for a troop to join. Hopefully, if you and the other sensitive ASMs speak up, change the topic, the others will follow. Wouldn't necessarily hold my breath on that though.

The planning weekend lays out the calendar for the upcoming year. It is mostly just what they want to do for a particular month - rather broad idea. Then each month, the PLC gets together to make more detailed plans for the following month's campout.

A typical month in our Troop getting ready for a campout. I'll use the upcoming December trip, already decided during the annual planning weekend to go to our council camp.

An adult sends in the reservation form for that.

PLC decides what activities will happen on that trip. Orienteering is a great activity when we're there so that's one of the main activities for this annual campout. PLC will decide who is in charge of setting up the course. Other activities for the weekend are also decided at the PLC meeting held one month prior. I've overheard them talking already about having a patrol cooking competition this year. The PLC will also plan the meeting activities leading up to the campout.

Meetings leading up to the campout may include:

discussion and demonstration of proper cold weather clothing and preparation and first aid.

In this case because they have orienteering planned, the guys will go over again the proper use of a compass for another meeting.

If the guys do decide to have a cooking competition, I imagine they will have part of a meeting to give the patrols ideas, cookbooks, website info, on interesting menu items.

Last meeting before the campout, the patrols plan their menus, pick whomever will buy the food and collect money from their patrol members. SPL or ASPL goes over the menu with the PL and grubmaster. PL makes up the roster of who is going, makes the duty roster for the weekend, and turns in money to the Treasurer. PLs let me know how many guys in their patrols are going so I can make sure we have enough drivers and send in a tour permit.

Hope this helps.

Hate to say it, but if your older scouts have that attitude, it will be very difficult to change. When I became SM in our troop, I focused on the younger guys and changing the culture of our Troop. Started training the next generation of junior leaders and building the expectation among them that it is their troop and they will be responsible for planning and carrying out campouts and other activities. It took several years, but here we are now with those once 12-year-old scouts working on training their replacements and getting ready to hand over the reigns.

Have an annual planning weekend campout. You will have to jump start the guys into thinking beyond doing the same old things they've done before. Before the weekend, task all your guys with coming up with at least thing they'd like to do that they haven't done before. Lay all the ideas out. Rule out those that are G2SS approved, but don't rule out anything else right off. For instance, the first time we did this, the guys were talking about going to an amusement park for a day. A couple of the older scouts said that there was no way Mrs. B. would let them do that. Guess what? Mrs. B. most certainly did let them do that and we all had a great time. Over time, a common statement heard from the guys in our troop was "if we plan it, we can do it."

That's how we got started. Please remember though, once you get these guys thinking it is their troop and they make the plans, get out of their way and let them go.

My favorite patch is the National Camping School Patch for Cub Scout Resident Camp Director. I was director for five years and those were without a doubt the best times I've had in Scouting.

I have a lot of square knots, but my favorites are Dist. Award of Merit, SM Award of Merit and Silver Beaver because those are given by nomination and the vote of others.

Favorites for my sons:

Though not a patch, older son values his Den Chief Service Award above any other award he has received. Next would be his Vigil Honor, because it took three tries before he was even elected into the OA. Third is his Eagle Scout patch (now knot).

Younger son values his Eagle patch, BSA lifeguard, and SPL patch. He tried four times running for SPL. In his case, fourth time was the charm.

50 weeks a year for our Troop, we don't meet for two weeks during Christmas to just after New Year.

Hot here in South Carolina in the summer. Oh yes, we meet every week during the summer, but we generally do not camp in July and August unless the boys plan a white water trip to the mountains. Summer camp is in June. The guys like to go caving in July - always cool in the cave. August we may just have a family picnic and pool party. We usually have one Saturday when we empty out the trailer, clean out all the patrol boxes, set up and check out all the tents, inventory and reorganize. Another Saturday after summer camp we have the older scouts work with the new guys and go over all the things the new guys learned during summer camp. Both of these Saturdays we have picnic lunch for the guys and some kind of game at the end. Our new leaders mentioned they really liked this day as they could watch closely how the older scouts work with the younger scouts.

The thing is, while we may not be doing any traditional camping in the summer, we do SOMETHING. September starts with our annual planning weekend campout and the traditional camping/backpacking/etc. year begins again.

Weekly meetings in the summer are a bit more laid back, sometimes just playing ultimate or freeze tag or capture the flag for the whole meeting. We know that families take vacations so it's good times for whomever shows up for the meetings. Maybe I'll walk everyone down to the gas station and buy everyone an ice cream. Another week, an adult will bring watermelon for the guys. The summer months are a great time for our new Scouts to really get to know the older guys. Also, for the older guys to learn things about the new scouts. All the games and just playing around creates a wonderful bond among our scouts. I am always surprised, but we have very good attendance during the summer.

Nice time for the adults to get together too. Sit outside and watch the boys for an hour or so on a nice summer evening once a week.

What's not to like?

A couple of our new ASMs just did the New Leader Essentials training and were told that training would become mandatory. The trainer said it came from National, but I am wondering if it's just our Council's attempt to correct our rather poor training record.

Wherever the mandate is coming from, in our troop the expectation is set up front that any new leader must be trained for his/her position. It has certainly become a lot easier with all the online trainings offered now. Interestingly, one of our new ASMs, now fully trained, was talking with another of our new leaders who signed up as an ASM. He was asking if that leader had planned to take the ASM trainings (indoor and outdoor). If not, he suggested he change his registration to Troop Committee and take the online trainings for that. Seems our new ASM is interested in ensuring that we show 100% adult training on our recharter.

I thought it was rather amusing that another of our new ASMs, just after crossing over from Webelos last spring, asked if it was OK to wear his ASM patch if he hadn't been fully trained yet.

We do require any adult, whether ASM or Committee, that has direct involvement with the Scouts to take the Youth Protection training.

I will respectfully disagree with Frank's approach. I've seen that done in many troops as a way to keep the older guys interested. Separating them from the younger scouts. Nothing wrong with it a couple of times a year to give the older guys an adventure of their own, but taking them away from the younger guys on a regular basis, takes away their opportunities to teach, mentor, and lead those younger guys. Former SMs in our troop tried that approach, setting up a Venturing Patrol. Problem was, those guys essentially checked out of the troop and involvement with the younger scouts. That led to an adult run troop and it was a disaster.

Our older Scouts own "their" troop and the younger boys are "their" boys. They take great pride in watching them learn and grow. Now, as our most senior boys are in the last years of high school, they are watching those once new scouts step into their shoes and begin to take charge of the troop. It's a wonderful thing to watch.

My response to parents when they ask me about advancement in our troop is that our program is not advancement driven, rather advancement comes along as a result of being active in our program. The more a Scout participates in weekly meetings and the patrol activities, attends campouts and does his assigned duties, demonstrates his skills to his patrol leader and gets them signed off, that scout will just naturally advance in good time.

Rather than asking the SM, perhaps you first should figure out what kind of advancement opportunities you want for your son. If you are looking for quick advancement, activities regularly planned around merit badges, classroom style meetings, adults setting the agenda, guys earning rank and/or merit badges as a group, a program such as ours would not be a good fit for you.

Something I've found that can be a useful indicator of a troop's advancement policy would be to ask how quickly a scout advances to First Class. If new guys in a Troop regularly advance to First Class in a year or less, that would indicate to me an advancement driven troop. Others on the forum will likely disagree. Yes, you'll hear about the First Class First Year thing, but in my experience our guys take about 1.5 to 2 years to First Class, but they sure know their stuff by the time they get there and have had a really good time along the way.

I would start by asking them what they want to do.

Our Troop now has the Awesomeness Patrol, made up of the SPL, ASPL, Quartermaster and JASM. These guys set up their own campsite, somewhere between the adults and the patrols. They plan the campout activities depending on the theme for the month. They may set up an orienteering course, plan a nature scavenger hunt, plan and run the campfire program, games. The adults stay out of their way and they really do like being the take charge guys. They provide challenges and competitions for the patrols.

They also have the opportunity once a year to do a adult-free hike and campout. Other scouts not in the awesomeness patrol can also do this hike based on their experience and maturity. Awesomeness Patrol makes that determination. We take all the scouts to the hiking area and the older guys take off in one direction, everyone else goes another. Everyone meets back up again in the morning and hikes out.

Also, once a year, a few of the adults and older scouts that want to, may take a long weekend 30 or so miler along the Appalachian Trail. At this year's planning weekend, the older scouts said they wanted to take a whitewater trip to one of the more challenging rivers.

Fun times.

We work very hard to keep costs low.

Annual registration fee: $30

Summer Camp: $185 - each scout that sells popcorn can use his profits toward this

Monthly campouts: $10-20 depending on where and what. Usually no cost if backpacking.

Once a year we have a relatively expensive adventure (skiing, caving, etc.) that runs about $60 cost to the scouts as we offset the remainder with troop funds

Troop T-shirt: $5

John Boehner (sp?) was interviewed by CNN John King over the weekend and asked repeatedly about why the Republicans have not submitted their own bill. His answer, over and over, was that people need to go to GOP.gov website where there are eight or nine points listed that would work to reform healthcare. No, it's not a bill, but a series of individual bills that have been presented.

My question is: if these eight or nine points are so great, and as the Republicans continue to say they have the real answers to healthcare reform, why don't they put their own bill together, have it scored by the CBO and present that to the American people? I have heard that Boehner plans to do this during the floor debate coming up on the healthcare bill as it stands now. This is going to be very interesting.

Funny how what one person may dislike about the new uniform, another likes.

Me? I like the roll up sleeves. Maybe it's because I have scrawny girlie arms instead of bulging manly arms like oldsm.

Every Scoutmaster runs across these guys. For me, I try to find out WHY the scout is dragging his feet. That can make a big difference on how I may motivate, pressure, kick in the pants, his efforts.

Although we haven't had any of these types for several years, if a Scout is mostly absent from the Troop since earning Life and then suddenly reappears six months before his 18th birthday and announces he wants to make Eagle, I more than likely will not bend over backwards for him. Of course, there is always the likelihood that he's been absent because of family, school, sports, work, whatever. A lot depends on how much of an effort he's made to keep in touch with me - you know, stuff like simply answering an email or phone call from me.

Then we have the guys that have become most common in our Troop. The 17-year-old Life Scout who has been actively engaged with the Troop since day one. Or, the almost 16-year-old who has been a Life Scout for two years (my younger son).

I ask them, rather casually, every month what they are doing towards earning Eagle. Younger son's answer was, I'm having fun with the Troop Mom, I'll get around to it. Have to admit, that answer sometimes left me speechless.

Current Eagle-bound Scout is now 17 1/2, beginning planning stages of his project and has two merit badges to complete. He is a procrastinator by nature and always waits till the 11th hour to finish things. He does, however, produce marvelous results. A very busy fellow, juggling AP classes, college applications, marching band, serving as a Den Chief, family matters. Yeah, I am stepping up my efforts to prod him along.

Oh yeah, younger son? Earned his Eagle in June. Decided last winter that he wanted to be an Eagle Scout when he went to camp to work for the summer. His decision and his motivation.

In essence, what it comes down to for me is I will put in as much effort toward helping the Scout on his quest for Eagle as he has put in during the years along the way.

Hi Luvtahike and welcome to the forum.

I think it would be terrific to award the DC award at your next Court of Honor - don't forget the group photo of him and "his" newly crossed over Scouts.

I don't have an opinion on the square knot issue. I will say, however, that older son received the service award rope and wore it until he was 21 - he worked on summer camp staff and wore it with the Venturing Uniform. Now, as an almost 23 year old camp staffer and ASM with our Troop, he still says he wishes he could wear it. He prizes that award over his Eagle.

Younger son has also served as a Den Chief for two years and has earned the service award. It will be presented to him at our next Court of Honor, along with the 100 nights of camping award. Both will be surprises to him.

Oh for goodness sakes, just sew the button on tighter.

Back to your usual programming.

"Been there, done that." It would be helpful if you give us the DL/CM response to your request to visit a Troop.

Why not volunteer yourself to take the Den to meet with a Troop?