gwd-scouter

Of course, my mistake.

Excellent idea, Pack. It is clearly the only thing left to do.

Edited to add: You realize that we are going to need Medicare for the medical bills that will pile up because of our high cholesterol? Oops, too bad, guess we're on our own. Heh heh.(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

Entertainers, of course. And, God Bless 'em, they sure know how to make a buck.

Isn't Ahnold already a spokesman for California?

Regarding reading the bills: Recently on Washington Journal (C-SPAN) the head of the Sixty Plus Association, a self-proclaimed nonpartisan group of seniors, was stating that ALL of the Association's members read the bill - all the way through. They KNOW what was in the bill and that is why they opposed it and want to repeal the law. Really? They all read it? I find that very hard to believe.

I find it disturbing now to hear all the outcries about the deficit commission proposals. Nope, can't have any tax hikes. Nope, can't do anything to Medicare and Social Security. Nothing about defense spending reductions. The Tea Party folks and Republicans keep talking about taking spending back to 2008 levels. Why not 2000 levels? How about letting the tax cuts expire as was designed? They knew then that the cuts would explode the deficit. (Very shrewd by the way to have the expiration date during the first term of Pres. Bush's successor.) How about repealing the prescription drug plan? Nope, no way, can't do that. Paying for Iraq and Afghanistan? Who are you kidding? Can't make the American People sacrifice for something like that.

Let's just make folks work until they're 70. Not a huge problem for those folks that make their living sitting in a comfy office behind a desk, but might be a big deal for those that do manual labor (yeah, a lot of middle class folks in there, eh?).

Complain about labor union pension plans? How about the pension plans for our elected officials? Cutting the pay of government workers sounds like a great idea to some, but oh hell no let's not get outraged at the Wall Street guys, CEO pay, bonuses, etc. that we, the taxpayers, helped secure. Better yet, too many government workers as it is so let's just fire a bunch of them. More people unemployed? No problem, they are just trying to pay their mortgage and raise their families, but they are GOVERNMENT workers helping to encourage "big" government and we can't have that.

Yeah, I'm a bit angry.

Oh yes, be careful what you wish for and never underestimate the gullibility of the American people.

I will tell you that Pack is not a troll. But, if any of you can guess what special pillow cover he takes to summer camp you win a prize.

This thread has digressed from its original post, but I would like to add something that has been bothering me since I keep hearing about "fly over country" and in other places about "real Americans."

I grew up just outside Washington, DC (Potomac Maryland). I now live in a small-ish town in upstate South Carolina. While each place has differences in lifestyle, neither has an ownership on values or heritage, American or otherwise. We are all Americans, no matter where we live. Got that?

Just curious. President Bush has been out on the show circuit touting his book. Oh yeah, he comes across as very affable, friendly, just did his best, kind of thing. Most of what I've heard from pundits is that he is rehabilitating his reputation.

But, just because he comes across as friendly and affable in the interviews, does that excuse the things he admits he did and approved? Waterboarding for instance?

The time has finally come. Many of you have followed my posts over the years and know of my early struggle in reforming a dying troop. Through much work, we finally pulled this Troop together and a couple of years ago grew from 9 to 24 Scouts. We have a terrific and well-trained group of adult leaders now, the boys are enthusiastic and in charge of their troop, the program is strong, and we are attracting Scouts. Yep, we're the talk of the town. OK, enough bragging.

You may also remember that for several years I have been suffering from health problems that slowly but surely affected my ability to camp and hike and do much of anything outdoors for any significant amount of time.

At the end of this year, I am stepping down as Scoutmaster. It is a sad choice to make, but the right one at the right time. My replacement has really been doing the outdoor part of the job for almost a year now, while I have been more focused on getting our Committee better organized. So, I will change over to Troop Committee Chair. New SM requested that I stay on and not leave the Troop outright, and for that I am very grateful.

I am enormously proud of our Scouts and look forward to continuing to watch and help them grow.

83Eagle. You will probably get a lot of different responses to your question, since many Packs handle AOL and crossovers differently. I will say that most do the AOL and Crossover at the B&G banquet (ours was in February), but it is quite nice to give the Webelos Scouts their own special ceremony apart from the B&G.

1. Yes, a boy earns AOL at the time he has finished the requirements. No need to crossover immediately to Boy Scouts.

2. No, once he crosses over to Boy Scouts he is no longer a Cub and cannot be a participant in Cub activities.

If you have boys that don't want to miss out on the upcoming Cub activities, have their AOL ceremony at your B&G in February and then let them wait to crossover to Boy Scouts at the end of the school year. Besides, this way your Webelos get to show off their Arrow of Light badge while they are still in your Pack.

As far as Troops wanting the boys earlier: many Troops use summer camp as a reason to get the boys earlier and have them camp a few times with the Troop before going to summer camp. We've had guys crossover to our Troop in February, May, and last year just a couple of weeks before summer camp. I've seen no difference in how the Scouts manage summer camp among those crossing over early and those later.

Eagle732. I am very familiar with the "bigger must be better" mind-set of many parents/boys in Scouting. Our District also has a mega troop, though not as mega as it used to be. They have a fairly consistent drop out rate, but many of the boys just transfer to another troop rather than dropping out altogether.

Our Troop suffered small numbers for years, never having more than 12 Scouts at a time. There were a lot of reasons for this: Scoutmaster changeovers every year or so, no active recruitment, poor program.

At the point I stepped up as SM, we were down to nine boys and only five that were active. It was suggested by many that we close down the Troop and transfer the guys. Thing is, those five active Scouts did not want to go anywhere else. So, we built up the program, went camping every month even if only a couple of Scouts signed up to go, started to turn the Troop back to boy-led, and set higher expectations for all of our Scouts and Scouters. It was a tough few years, but we are now well-known in the District as a "model" Boy Scout Troop (a moniker I laugh at - is there really such a thing? LOL).

I started visiting with Cubmasters and Den Leaders during roundtable, called and emailed the Webelos Den Leaders several times a year inviting them to join our Troop on a campout, offered the services of Den Chiefs. I got a lot of takers for the campouts - usually to fulfill Arrow of Light requirements - but still for a few years we didn't get any crossovers. The "bigger is better" still at work. We had a boy or two just wander in to our Troop and that kept us alive for a while.

Something amazing happened a couple of years ago. Because of our efforts to recruit with invitations to campouts, having a couple of our guys help out with Pack and District Pinewood Derbies and with Cub Day Camp (both excellent ways to get your Troop known), we had 15 Scouts crossover all in one month. Our numbers grew from 9 to 24 overnight. That first year after the large crossover was a bit of a challenge for our Scouts, but we got through it well and last year welcomed another Den with five crossovers. We continue to have guys just show up randomly through the year, so our numbers remain in the mid-twenties.

Regarding Den Chiefs. I believe this is the single best recruitment tool you can use. But, you have to pick the right boy for the job or it could be a disaster.

I would like to comment on the health issue since it is a problem I face as well. Do be honest and upfront about it with the boys and their parents. About five years ago I started developing strange symptoms of random arthritis, muscle pain, fatigue, and a lot of other stuff. Took several years, but finally got to a diagnosis of lupus and fibromyalgia. Over the years, my involvement in outdoor activities with the troop kept decreasing to the point now that I cannot camp overnight, spend more than a few hours outdoors in heat, sun, or humidity, must rest every four to six hours, and a lot of other limitations.

The boys and adult leaders in the Troop knew something was going on with me - they could see it happening. However, a couple of years ago I decided I could no longer try to fight through the symptoms, it was time to accept my limitations, and I let everyone know about my condition and that it would probably be best for me to step down as SM. Guess what? Still here as SM. The boys, adults, and parents felt that we had enough ASMs and well-trained youth leaders to handle the outdoor stuff and want me to stay on to take care of training and mentoring the youth leaders and adults.

Now that we have a fantastic group of well-trained adult leaders and the next generation of youth leaders is trained and working well together, my time as SM is likely drawing to a close.

Scoutfish: I can understand what you originally posted. Gosh, folks, here he was trying to help answer the original poster's question and giving an idea about how things are done in his Pack, and poor Scoutfish is jumped on because he and his adults leaders feel the need to quiet the room by "shouting" Signs Up.

Back in the day, I was CM for a pack of 120 or so boys. Our Pack meetings were, well, packed and loud with siblings, parents, grandparents, etc. At our Blue and Gold we could have close to 300 people in the fellowship hall. Yep, before the selected boys brought in the flags, I would step to the microphone and ask for everyone's attention. No, I didn't do signs up since so many people in the room wouldn't really know what that meant. But, I did wait until everyone was quiet before signaling to the boys at the back to bring up the flags.

What I do now as a Scoutmaster is very different. Signs up is hardly ever used, by me, the other adults, or by the Scouts, but that is because the guys (and new adults) learn very early that expectations for their conduct is higher and, frankly, it is a much smaller group to deal with.

The OP asked about flag ceremonies for a Pack meeting, not Boy Scouts.

"Soylent Green is PEOPLE"!

Bear den: I've always found the G2SS puzzling when it comes to Webelos camping.

Our Troop has taken Webelos Dens on campouts for years. While we prefer that each Webelos Scout have a parent along so that the parents get to know our Troop leadership and see for themselves how our Troop operates, it is not always possible. Our Council has had a 3:1 ratio for Webelos Scouts for as long as I can remember (1 adult for every 3 Webelos Scouts - of course remembering to have 2-deep leadership to start with).

We require the Den Leader or Asst. Den Leader and one other parent attend any campouts we do with Webelos Dens. Like your situation, more and more boys are in single parent situations, most times with younger siblings. We feel as long as the Webelos Scouts have at least two-deep leadership provided from their Den, that works for us.

Probably a stupid question that I'm sure someone will point out, but this is something I've been wondering about. It has to do with Medicare.

I believe Medicare was established because seniors had difficulty finding insurance on their own, for many reasons including no longer working so they couldn't get it from their employer, costly because of seniors' diminishing health, pre-existing conditions, etc.

If the new healthcare law says insurance companies can't turn people down for pre-existing conditions, and if everyone actually does wind up purchasing health insurance, thus expanding the coverage pool, and the exchanges are set up in the states to allow people to shop around, then why would we still need Medicare?

Sharon Angle...attractive? I don't think so. She looks a little Asian to me.

The blonde Fox News babes are certainly attractive. I always feel sorry for the lone brunette-sort of like being the token Democrat on that network.

Hello Forums - I've missed you.

President Bush didn't come to Jambo in 2001 when my older son was there and President Obama was absent from this year's when my younger son was there. Neither of my sons think much about it either way. My younger son was thrilled he got to go backstage after the opening show and hug Miss America and later got meet and talk with Mike Rowe.

He did say he was angry about all the booing. In his words, "It was sad, Mom, you could hear cheers from some areas, but not in the Southern Region (our area). I was going to cheer, Mom, but I was afraid of being pounded by all the people around me."

The worst part, he said, was that even the adults around him were booing. That disappointed him most of all.

John, it really is an awesome sound when played on a tuba, isn't it?(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

I may have missed something, but how did my Father's Day wish turn in to Taps being played on the tuba? I know I posted something somewhere about Patrick doing that, but not in this thread.

Gern, that may be true. However, we just lost a Scout - a most excellent Scout who loved the program - that is moving up from middle school to high school football. He is a small boy and I doubt that he will ever be a star football athlete. But, his Dad wants it and his coach demands 100% participation through the summer practices, through the fall season, and throughout the rest of the year.

I told him that our door will always been open for him. He loved our Troop's program and has never missed a campout since he joined a couple of years ago. I do hope he comes back.

OGE brings up what I have noticed. Having just been at summer camp and looking around my district over the years, I have seen that most of the adult leaders are older folks like myself - the boomers. I ask - where are the young parents? Is it true that they were not raised in an atmosphere of volunteerism and giving? Perhaps.

Maybe it is also that these younger adults were also not raised with the idea that you make your own fun. Go outside, find your friends, and make up a game. For the past couple of decades the play date, restrictive safety zone and structured games have been the norm. It comes as no surprise to me when we receive a new Scout who has no idea how to take care of his smallest personal needs or the ability to take responsibility for his own actions. His young life has been overly structured and controlled and his parents have made excuses for his mistakes.

"What do you mean he used an axe...an adult lights the stoves don't they...the adults will be bringing extra food in case the boys mess up their meal, won't they...he's never spent a night away from me...he needs to bring his cell phone so I can call and find out how he's doing...he can't be expected to take care of all that himself..." etc. etc. etc.

Those kind of remarks used to surprise me. Not anymore.

Sniff, sniff, the ceremony brought me to tears a few times. Our Scouts did the traditional Scout Law opening, lighting the 12 candles and talking about the meaning of each point in the Scout Law. After reverent, one Scout (who should wind up being a preacher) said the opening prayer. That got my tears started as he spoke about Patrick and his ongoing journey in life.

A few of our Scouts spoke about Patrick as their mentor and how much they've learned from him, a couple of adults told stories about Patrick's journey through Cub Scouts and then Boy Scouts. A lot of the camp staff told funny tales about Patrick's years working on staff and also of the changes in him since he started and how great a staff member he has become.

The final moments were especially touching for me. Listening to Patrick's brother, Eric (Eagle 2001) say a few words and then pin the medal on Patrick was splendid. But, what I will always remember is watching the tears well up in Patrick's eyes and listening to the catch in his voice as he spoke of how so many people helped him along the path to Eagle, but that it was his brother who was the most influential to him - not only in reaching Eagle, but throughout his life.

And, I wasn't the only one wiping my eyes by the end of the ceremony.

Frank17: Our camp is almost 2 hours from our home, but our Troop is there this week as are most of the others from our town. So, with a few exceptions, everyone that means something to Patrick is already there. It is just perfect.

I wear my pink pajamas in the summer when it's hot.