gwd-scouter

Why did National make the patch so large? I find it funny that they have muted the colors on the uniform, but at the same time make this ridiculously large patch. I much prefer the smaller QU patches.

We have a Troop website with the annual calendar and monthly meeting updates. It is updated regularly, but I think folks only visit to see when new pictures have been posted. Parents visit more than the Scouts. I know this because when the guys are talking about an upcoming campout, I often hear "when is the campout?" Every now and then I send an email to parents and scouts reminding them of the calendar on the website and the monthly meeting notes. Still, there are a few that never check and always seem surprised that a campout is a week away or the every year email I get from a couple of parents asking what week we are attending summer camp. Email reminders of things are sent to the parents and to those Scouts that have their own email address. A couple of our guys set up a Facebook page for the Troop, but it doesn't get much activity. Email is my preferred method of communication. I do not carry a cell phone and it's not likely I ever will. Heck, I don't even make calls from my home phone. Unfortunately, most of our parents rely on their cell phones for all communications. They all know early on that email and the website are the only methods I use for reminders, other than face-to-face at meetings. Still, every month I get the same comments from a few parents - oh, I didn't know we had to pay dues (every year at recharter), when is the money due for summer camp, or the campout is THIS weekend?, etc. I rely on the PLC to take care of communications among themselves and they seem to do a good job.

Our last four Eagles earned the award anywhere from two months to one day before turning 18. The first three did not have a COH. The first of these four wanted a COH, but just couldn't get his family together at a convenient time for all and just decided to drop it. The next two just didn't care about it. The fourth and most recent Eagle had his Court of Honor the day before he left for college. In these cases: the first Eagle worked very hard to earn it, having dropped out of Scouts for a couple of years and returning at age 17 to 'get' his Eagle. Hmmm, things had changed in the Troop since he left. New SM (me), new expectations. He was pretty clueless about performing in a POR since the Troop had never had any real job requirements in the past. He did OK though. Next two guys were out to 'get' their Eagle too. They did what was required, but it was with an attitude of 'let's just get this done and get outta here.' The fourth young man is an example most of us think of when we think of Eagle Scouts. While I was disappointed that the first three did not have Courts of Honor, I admit it was with real pride in his achievement that I presented the Eagle Award to this young man last summer. So, at least from my perspective, perhaps those boys that choose not to have a COH only finished the requirements in order to 'get' Eagle rather than 'earn' it. In other words, why make a fuss over something that was just a bunch of check marks in a book?

Some of our boys' easy favorites: Breakfast: spam and grits: cut up and fry spam in skillet, add to instant grits. Instant Oatmeal is also on the menu a lot. Dinner: chicken and rice: using the quick cook rice (type in a microwavable pouch - you can just add some boiling water in the pouch to heat it up), add precooked chicken chunks, seal pouch for a few minutes until hot. Some of the guys add veggies too (corn, peas). Also, ramen noodles with pieces of precooked chicken added. Quick no cook lunches - the favorite by far is summer sausage, cheese, and crackers. A close second is tuna or chicken salad packets (tuna or chicken, with crackers and mayo, relish). All the guys like the variety of Mountain House meals. Very lightweight and most will feed two Scouts. Some of the examples above came about in an effort to get them away from the expensive prepackaged backpacking meals and figure out ways to make the same things for less. We've only started emphasizing backpacking trips in our Troop for the past couple of years. The guys are really getting into it and I imagine they will be coming up with more interesting menu items.

I'm a bit confused. This is a new Scout you are talking about? If so, what election could he have been eligible for?

Ding ding ding - liberal here. Well, socially liberal at least - I'm rather conservative in my financial views. Surprisingly, I know quite a few fellow liberals among the Scouters in my very Southern town. I believe most folks on this forum are conservative and/or republican. I've received a few flame IMs for posting my more liberal views on some subjects in the past, so I usually don't post in the politics section. I enjoy reading the threads though. Rather entertaining.

MattR, our Troop was in much the same rut as you describe. Same old camping trips year after year. Our guys just weren't thinking beyond their own experiences. Unfortunately, the past adult leadership wasn't very imaginative either. So, about five years ago, we held a planning weekend and gave the boys a kick start. Every car camping trip they wanted to do had to be at a place they had never been. They had to put two backpacking trips on the calendar. They had to come up with two ideas for something they had never done. My instructions to them were to just put everything they thought of, no matter how ridiculous it sounded, on a list. Then, talk about the list and the pros and cons of everything on it. Yep, they had some really fanciful ideas. Some clearly out of bounds which they found out by looking in the G2SS. That first year they wanted to go to an amusement park. They thought for sure I would say no. They were wrong. Yes, I stepped all over the PLC, I know. Over the years since they have wonderfully varied calendars of events including a couple of trips designed solely for the older Scouts (sans adults). Even better, we have close to 100 percent participation for everything. If a Scout misses a trip these days, it is because of a family or school commitment. I no longer hear the excuse that a guy just doesn't feel like going. Absolutely throw a challenge in on the campouts. Make it a patrol challenge. Sure, cooking only on the lid of a dutch oven is a good idea. How about cooking without utensils? No clean up cooking? Which patrol can get their site set up first? Beat the clock on cleanup after a meal. As shortridge suggests, gather up a bunch of brochures, magazines, etc. with camping ideas. That's how our guys started including cave crawling trips - one of the most anticipated trips every year and each year more adventurous than the last. By the way, I'm not sure I buy into the statement that enthusiasm comes from success. I very rarely hear the guys talk about the beautifully sunny weekend when everything went right. Nope, they remember the frozen pancake batter, the rain soaked weekend when the sun finally came out as we were leaving. Almost every Scout in the Troop has a nickname derived from some dunder-headed thing he did on a campout. Good luck to ya!

And, as George Carlin said, "shoot is sh*t with two o's." I must confess I am guilty of saying shoot. Freakin' seems to be a word of choice around here, along with geez and crap. Let's not forget the ever popular darn-it. I never heard frickin until the TV show Scrubs. Elliott says frick to voice her frustrations. Unfortunately, I've had to deal with a few fellas over the years that use the words that those above tend to replace. I'll wager all the boys know the complete vulgarity dictionary, but most have the good sense to censor themselves. Then again, I'm reminded of a time I got in a good deal of trouble in sixth grade. Yeah, I was very naive back then, afraid I still am at times. A girlfriend had tried on my silver ring and it got stuck on her finger. I told her to 'screw' it to get it off. My teacher overheard and my mother received a call about my vulgar language. I had no idea what all the fuss was about. I was merely trying to tell my friend to twist the ring around her finger - you know, like screwing something in. Their overreaction taught me the alternate meaning of screw. Mastication is wonderful and you won't go blind doing it. Gern, do you suppose anyone these days knows the definition of niggardly?

A few hours ago I watched CNN and listened to over an hour of Rush Limbaugh speaking to CPAC. Then I log onto the Scouter Forum and see the title of this thread. I am weary of this evening. Heavy sigh. Think I'll go to bed. Good night all.

Sure, it's possible. I have a two questions, though. Why did you quit three years ago, and why do you want to come back now?

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin A very good point, but one that seems to be forgotten by those folks who strongly support the Patriot Act and other government intrusions in the name of protecting the American people - usually the very same folks that vociferously support gun rights.

A good pair of sturdy tennis shoes should be OK. No need to buy expensive hiking boots especially since he will quickly grow out of them. Blisters? Could be from damp sweaty socks. Make sure he has plenty of extras and changes them during the day. Definitely remind him that he must wear socks all the time. Sockless in tennis shoes can quickly cause blisters. Gold Bond powder on the feet is a big help too.

I was in our Scout shop a couple of weeks ago purchasing a few uniform items. Woman working there is an old friend and we were talking about the new uniforms and the disappearance of red. She said the red color was being removed/replaced because it had been determined that the color red scares wildlife. I've searched the Internet to find verification of this, but haven't found anything. Does anyone know if this really was one of the reasons for the decision to remove the red shoulder loops, red in patches, red-topped socks, etc.? Seems to me if the folks at National were so worried about scaring animals, they'd be more concerned about a bunch of teen-aged boys tromping through the woods than a few red numbers and a trained strip.

Stosh, the numbers are indeed sad, but I'm curious - you post often about how the boys in your Troop do the recruiting of Webelos to join their patrols. Were all of the Webelos contacted? The thirteen that earned AOL, what kind of activities did they do with your Troop in order to earn Outdoorsman and the AOL? Did their parents come along? Did you and your other leaders take time with the Webelos parents to explain your program? The reason I'm asking is because in the past, we have invited Webelos Dens to come to meetings and outings. They did come, but we didn't get a lot of crossover activity. Some of the boys went to other Troops, some never joined a Troop at all. On reflection I think part of the problem was communication, not with the boys, but with the parents. Our adult leaders have gotten much better talking with the parents about our program, especially explaining the significant differences between Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting. This past year we had visits from four dens from four different Packs. While our Scouts worked with the Webelos, the other leaders and I spent A LOT of time talking with the Den Leaders and Webelos parents. The result is that this year, two of those dens have already arranged their crossovers to our Troop (both in the end of March), one other said they had another Troop to visit, but told us they are very interested and pleased with our Troop (crossover in April), the fourth Den is still undecided (crossover in May). One last question - have you asked anyone in the Webelos Den (parents, leaders) that didn't crossover, why?

Watched it last night. Good thing I had a box of tissues nearby.

National abandoned Scouting for Food? I hadn't heard of that. We do it every February in our Council. About Good Turn for America. I still log in our Troop's service projects, but we've never given out the patch. Our Council office has them, but not the year rockers. When the program came out I remember telling the boys about it, but not since then. Does anyone outside of Boy Scouts even know about GTA? Never heard any publicity about it outside of the Scouting community and actually not for several years within the Scouting community. We do 3-4 service projects a year because that's what Scouts do, not for a patch.

Love the dutch oven. It took time to convince our guys how easy they are to use and clean. After they watched the adults enjoying splendid meals followed by easy cleanup, the boys started to give it a try. Of course, it helped that I gave them a challenge a few years ago that they had to prepare at least one meal on the upcoming campout using a dutch oven. 'Here's a recipe book guys, see what you can find.' Now, one of their favorite breakfast items is cinnamon rolls. They also have gotten quite expert in making biscuits and gravy. Boy Scout Pizza (pita pockets split open and covered with sauce, meat and cheese) has appeared for lunch or dinner. I stopped making cobblers or brownies a while ago and finally the boys started making it themselves. Thankfully, they share with the adults.

Another update. Met with the IH yesterday. He showed us several options for meeting space and I must say I'm delighted. There is another small house on the church property that has four small rooms, a kitchen and a bathroom. He showed us around and asked what we thought of this option or that option. He showed us a closet we could use to store our meeting materials and actually asked if thought that would be OK. He is agreeable to let us keep our troop flag, American flag, and the boys' patrol flags in a corner of one room, even though others will use the room at other times during the week. Husband talked about the lock-ins we do a couple of times a year before long backpacking trips. He told the IH that these lock-ins are important in that the boys check each other's packs to make sure they have what they need as far as safety is concerned. IH understood, but mentioned that on Friday nights, the house is used by an outreach group for addicted persons. He then said the church could arrange for us to use another area in the main part of the church for this purpose. He also said we could do that for our Courts of Honor since the rooms in the house would be much too small to accommodate our Scouts and parents. Heck, he even said it would be OK for us to put a small sign out front of the house with our Troop number, i.e., Troop 313 meetings Mondays at 6:30. When I mentioned our amazing upcoming Troop growth he seemed really pleased. He admitted he had no idea how a Scout Troop functioned or even it's real purpose. When I said we've had a fair number of underprivileged boys in the Troop over the years and that we've collected equipment to lend to them and have other parents help out with fees, I think it helped him see that we were more than just a camping club. We are a valuable resource for the church in the community. I asked about having more exposure with the church - reminding him that we are the church's Troop. He was quite interested in us helping with service projects. It seems, in the past, our requests for service project opportunities went through the wrong person. For the past several years, I requested opportunities for our boys only to be told we could only fix up the basement of the house where we met. Now, the IH was talking about things like putting in benches and/or picnic tables in the playground area, helping with upcoming landscaping around the house, etc. Fantastic! We now have a new COR and the IH knows him very well. I'm looking forward to fostering a better relationship with the church - one that helps not only the church, but helps our troop by letting the congregation actually know that we're there. I'm so glad this is going to work out. We pack up and move out tomorrow and will get a key to move in a few of our things to the new location. I think the boys will be very pleased.

LisaBob, I'm writing to give you an example of the patrol method in use in a very small Troop. We have always numbered somewhere around 10-16 boys in our Troop. Right now we have nine. Being so small we've operated as one patrol. Last year, in an effort to build some king of patrol identity and spirit, the guys split into 2 patrols: 5 (scouts in middle school ages 11-13, Scout-First Class) and 4 (14-17, First Class-Life). Another reason we split into two small patrols is that we are expecting a large number of Webelos to cross over very soon: 10 are coming from two different Packs in the end of March, another 4 in April, and possibly a few more in May. We wanted (well, OK, I wanted) our guys to have a strong patrol setup and training in the patrol method so that when we finally grew the Troop they would be ready. They are ready and the new Scouts are coming. For the first time in many many years, they have patrol names, flags and cheers. They created their own patrol boxes and they camp in patrol areas. We haven't yet had a campout where only one member of a patrol comes, but we've had several where there were only two. Menu planning is quite easy with only two guys. Not as much arguing about what to eat. Our budget is 10-12 per person for food. I've noticed the guys bring items from home when they are so small in number that there isn't an economical way to buy something (i.e., a few slices of bread rather than a whole loaf). With our two small patrols, all the boys are actively engaged in planning for and participating in our campouts. Yep, they have to set up, cook, clean, and take care of each other much more than when a patrol has eight or ten members. No perceived unfairness in the division of labor - they have to do it all. Wuite frankly, the argument your group is giving about the Scouts having to do too much if they have a small patrol turn out just isn't accurate from what I've seen with our patrols. Sure if only two guys show up they have to cook and clean at every meal. But, cooking for two can be much easier and more efficient than cooking for eight, and clean up is a snap. Example: one of our patrols only had two guys going and decided to bring a backpack stove and boil water to make oatmeal and hot chocolate for breakfast. Piece of cake. Breakfast done in a jiffy and no need to clean out pots and pans. Having to make plans for a small group has actually required our guys to think more creatively. I will say that I received a bit of resistance from a few other leaders with regard to this setup. Their reasoning was basically that it would just be much easier with only nine Scouts to keep it as one patrol, one menu, one patrol box, etc. etc. After having our two little patrols for a while, and seeing these guys come together and work together much better than they ever did as one patrol, the other adults are now on board. It also helped when I mentioned the adults had a small 'patrol' (2-3 on a campout) and we managed very well with our small numbers. So, the new Webelos are coming. The four older Scouts (Awesomeness patrol) are in charge of the new guys. We will most likely form two new Scout patrols for a few months while the Awesomeness patrol helps them learn the basics. The guys then want to move those guys into regular mixed-age patrols at our annual planning weekend in September. Others have commented frequently in many threads about the patrol method. Knowing how we struggled for years with one patrol and how well these guys are doing with our two small patrols, I agree wholeheartedly that patrols should be left alone to do what they need to do and not mixed or otherwise messed with for some adult's idea of convenience. Good luck in convincing your Troop. It probably won't be an easy sell, but it's well worth the effort.

Update on our situation. It seems several people went to bat for our Troop with the church. Church head called me and asked if we could meet to look around the church buildings and see if we couldn't come up with something that will work for both of us. That meeting is this Thursday. He says the church wants to support the Troop and will work with us to find us suitable meeting space. Still, it won't be 'ours' like the basement we are moving out of this Saturday. We won't be able to store anything or put our things up on the walls. The boys are really disappointed about moving our of the basement because they've really turned it into their Scout Home. But, we have to go with our CO's wishes. He did mention something about making an arrangement for the short term, for this year. I'm not sure what that means. It may mean that they will move us again next year. We have a new COR, a long time member of the church and on the church's finance committee, an Eagle Scout, who is eager to get started working on the Troop's behalf. None of our CORs in the past have actually done anything, so I'm hoping this man will help us out. FYI - the church has never selected the COR for the Troop. We have always had to find someone ourselves and then get the church's OK. Several churches in our town have expressed interest in having a Scout Troop. I guess we'll just wait and see what next year brings us.

Gern, I agree wholeheartedly with your comment about older Scouts. Mine was meant to convey no matter the size of your troop (because bigger isn't always better) if all the boys are active and engaged, you must be doing something right. In other words, keeping the new Scouts so that they one day become the active and engaged 14+ year olds. Great responses from the group so far.

High percentage of active and engaged youth - regardless of their age.

Pack, your posts did come across a bit stronger than usual, but I just chalked it up to having very strong feelings against smoking. Don't feel you need to apologize to anyone. Although I am curious about the statement about folks here living up to the southern stereotype. Sorry you are dealing with such sorrows in your life. Take some time, regather yourself, and come back soon.

BSA and total prohibition on smoking. This topic comes up just about every year during our council's summer camp. The people I find most adamant about it are former smokers. Camp requires any smoker to take it to the back of the parking lot. A few folks meet there after meals - myself included. Some gather there throughout the day. I pop in once in a while. There are picnic tables scattered about along the edge of the parking lot and sometimes a merit badge program will be going on. Still, some diehards have a smoke. Again, I do not - keep it away from the boys. As far as sneaking off to take a walk or collect firewood or something similar - I don't think really fools the boys for long. I've known Troops to turn away volunteers because of smoking. Kinda extreme in my view, but that's their Troop. We've had smokers as leaders in our Troop over the years. Most were mindful of keeping it away from the boys. One never made the attempt. He spoke often about his time as a youth in Boy Scouts and his SM back then. He always remembered the SM had a cig dangling from his lips. Guess he was reliving his youth and saw no problem with it. I don't even agree with adults sitting around the campfire smoking after the lads have gone to bed. Then again, my husband enjoys a good cigar from time-to-time and I can envision a few men sitting around a lowering campfire, looking up at a star-filled sky, puffing away on their stogies and doing the male bonding thing. Vicki - assuming from your name you are a female, you really smoke cigars?

Both of my sons work at summer camp - older son doing his 7th year this year, younger doing his 3rd. Both would tell you it's the best thing they've ever done. Older son is acquatics director this year, younger working again in Ecology. You've received a lot of good advice so far on what to bring. I don't think I can add anything. I will reiterate sun block for the waterfront. Also, if your waterfront area is a lake rather than a pool and you do things that get you in the water, bring extra towels. Be sure to wash them frequently as well as your bathing suit. As far as class B shirts: check out your council office. Many times they have Tshirts from past camporees, cuborees, summer camp, etc. that they sell for a reduced priced. Maybe you know someone who has worked staff before and isn't working this year that could lend you some shirts. The first summer my older son worked, he needed a few extra shirts and took plain red Hanes Tshirts. Worked out OK for him. Take your program area and your job there seriously, but don't take yourself too seriously. Have fun. Get goofy when appropriate. If the staff is singing songs at assembly, join in. Talk to the campers. Say hi when one passes by. Our camp has a dining hall and the staff members prepare a small totem. The table waiters pick a totem to put on their table and that staff member sits with them for the meal. Sit with the campers and, most importantly, talk to them. Our boys pick a few of the favorite staff members and present them with our Troop T-shirt on the last day of camp. I know my sons have received a lot of other Troop's shirts over the years. Great way to build up your activity shirts.