Gold Winger

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

History has been made today because you're the first woman to ever hold that opinion.

"The SPL signed off that the boy completed the requirement. However, it was clear to the adults that he really did not complete the requirement. Sometimes in a boy-run program, we let them suffer the consequences of their mistakes. " It's "boy led" not "boy run". However, letting the boys make mistakes means letting them forget food or to check the weather not short cut advancement requirements. Letting that boy skip requirements may have kept him in the program but at what cost? The other boys will know that the system cheated and that he didn't have to do the same things that they did. The boys in the next town will be cheated because they have to do extra work to get to the same rank. Cheating never does anyone any favors. " He is an Eagle Scout and 30 year scouter having held the SM . . ." Sorry but that really doesn't impress me if he isn't following the rules. It's like when a guy is a 30 year umpire but has a wandering strike zone, awards and such means that he DID a good job but says nothing about current performance. In my tiny mind, there are two places where you can't shortcut the systems: advancment and patrol method.

You must have been on a different train that I was. I saw some pretty steep hills. In anycase, that's not a "bad" experience that's just "not up to expectations." In this context bad is "getting mauled by a bear," "starving," or "breaking both legs."

"Because, yes, if a requirement is signed off - that requirement has been met in the eyes of the BSA. " Not true. Not true at all. You need to review the purposes of the BOR. "Again, the Scoutmaster is in charge of the advancement program so yes, the SM's word is law! (Can you tell I'm a Scoutmaster." Sorry. Wrong again. A Scoutmaster doesn't get to change the rules. Look at your manuals again. When I was Advancement Guy and if the SM dared to come to me and say, "Johnny doesn't camp but I want him to advance anyway" I'd have responded "So?" (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

"Okay, the Board asks the Scout for documentation and he pulls out his trusty Boy Scout Handbook and shows that the requirement had been signed off. " Just because s requirement is signed off doesn't mean that it was met. If the BOR knows that Mr. Brown (not his real name) wasn't feeling well so he just signed everyone off on square knots so he could take a nap, that doesn't have to be accepted. Another common problem is that people think that the SM's word is law. He wants Johnny to advance so Johnny does. It's not supposed to work that way.

"Why is it that well meaning adults even if given the opportunity to become educated about the scouting program or some part thereof refuse to do so? " Because it is "just Scouts." It isn't anything important like soccer or football. There are no trophies at the end of the season. It is just about camping and a goofy uniform and who needs training for that?

A donation is not pay.

"Simple sigh, stuck in stolid, silly, sexism... " Funny, isn't it how wimmen folk can cry sexism when a man makes a comment about things that wimmen do or uses a picture of a pretty girl to sell cars. But when the wimmen folk say "that's just what men do" or oggle the studly guy from the cover of the romance novels. That's okay.

"With no grade more than 5 degrees" Sure you don't mean 5%? You wouldn't even notice 5 degrees.

I never said that it was a big deal. I only said that it wasn't by the book, depending on which book you look at.

"Once recorded at Council into ScoutNet, there's no going back. Sigh." Urban Myth. When I was Advancement Guy for my son's troop I had a number of things taken out of Scout Net, all it took was a phone call. "Hello, this is Gold Winger. That Life for John Jones last month? Yeah, I sent it in by mistake. Okay, taanks."

Nah Bob, you missed the point as usual. Under poetic license, anything can be whatever I want it to be.

I'm sure that's supposed to be a jibe at me but you've got your "facts" wrong. I'm not old, never been lost in fog, my cycle isn't gold, and they aren't insults if they're true. I know that you'll argue poetic license but that's just a synonym for "just plain wrong but unwilling to admit it." Come on Bob, I'm sure that you can do better than that. You haven't even mentioned training yet. Under poetic license, the above is haiku.

However, it offended me and by today's PC standards, an unintentional offense is far worse than an intentional one.

Nice little dance Bob, doesn't change the fact that the usage is and was incorrect. You could have used the correct term without impacting your little poem in the least but you probably didn't have a clue. Here's two bucks. Go buy a clue along with a sense of humor. There was a Scouter named White Of the rules he knew he was right Of life he knew nil Or less even still Thank God I don't suffer his plight

You're a couple days early.

Traditional capture the flag can accomplish the same goals as Laser Tag.

I know that you're a Sea Scout guy but in the Navy it's "underway." "Under weigh" is a common mistake that many (including CS Forester) have made over the centuries because one "weighs anchor" so they think that we should get "under weigh" but but the origins of the words are different. Weighing anchor has to do with raising the anchor, just as one used to raise something up to get it's weight (to weigh). However, "underway" is a corruption of the Dutch "onderweg" meaning "on the way."

" my definition of good citizenship is following the laws of my community, in whatever community I am member of." So if you had lived in Germany in 1940 and a neighbor was hiding a Jew in his attic, what would you have done?

"I have seen lots of things get in the way of good scouting...but never an actual rule policy or procedure of the BSA." Since your definition of good scouting and a good program are following BSA rules without question, that could be your only answer.

If you don't know then I can't explain it to you.

" As Secret DE said, the scoutmaster should be at the top of the list. After that, I think the list should be sorted by those scouters that are working with the youth the most." Why? We are talking about nominating adults for OA, right? The selection is supposed to be based on who we think can offer the most to the OA not how much time he spends with his troop or youth in general.

Looks like more confusing and contradictory BSA publications. What is an official leather belt? The ones on ScoutStuff.org? Can't be the camp belts because those are specifically mentioned in the insignia guide. Does buckle of choice mean only BSA buckles or could it be my "Airborn, Death From Above" buckle?

" is UL an accepted abbreviation for Unit Leader?" UL is an accepted acronym for "Underwriters Labratory."