FScouter

If a troop is having internal difficulties in operating the program, and if those difficulties are caused by as you say "parents and committee members and other adults with limited to no knowledge of the program signing off requirements on things they know little about", then I'd say the wrong people were selected. Train them or replace them. If the Scoutmaster refuses to authorize boys to teach rank requirments and to sign them off, and instead uses parents with no knowledge, the solution to that has nothing to do with boards of review.

There may be some good reasons why an adult leader should not sign off requirements for his/her son as was pointed out by BadenP. More to the point though is that any person signing must do so in a responsible manner. The Scoutmaster is well advised to consider carefully whom he authorizes to sign, and monitor the process. In this particular case there has been nothing presented that the parent signed any requirement, thus in this case the boys BOR problems have nothing to do with that. If rank requirements are not completed properly or completely, the solution is not to eliminate parent leaders from signing. Re-train the person(s), parent or otherwise that are not doing a good job. BSA does not preclude a parent from signing off rank requirements. Separately from all this is that a troop can have a strong patrol method and good use of the Patrol Leaders Council. Its not dependent on PLC and SM run boards of review. BSA discontinued that practice many years ago with good reason.

"Someone show me the purpose in telling an old eagle scout that "general policy" says he is not to wear his eagle medal." Nobody said that.

Beavah, It is VERY clear that despite your carefully chosen wording, that you consider OGE, and now me as well, to be "brain-dead nitwits" that can't distinguish "between a thread that has become offensive, [and] one that is humorous". Frankly, I find it particularly offensive when a person uses subtle language and carefully chosen phrasing for the purpose of demeaning another person, or his ideas or motivations, whether it be Merlyn, or OGE, or me, or any one of many others that you don't agree with. Your messages are very clear and couching them is niceties or folksy terms or smiley faces really doesn't diminish the underlying nastiness.

Oh, for Heaven's sake!! "Zero tolerance"? Moderators are "brain-dead nitwits"? You're complaining that you can't use the forums to publicly disparage a fellow forum member. Why is that important to you to disparage another person?

You are wise to understand that doing two jobs doesn't really work. One person can do one job well, or two jobs half-way. BSA recognizes it as well, which is why you cannot register in both those positions. No one is going to automatically "step up" to a position. That's just wishful and naive thinking. The pack CO and CO rep and committee are going to have to identify some candidates, and recruit one of them. Den leaders and the Cubmaster cannot be candidates; others are needed. "Dealing with Council?" Somebody's got a misplaced notion about that. What's to "deal" with? You file a tour permit when needed, turn in a recharter once a year, turn in advancement forms periodically, and take advantage of the events and help the district and council has to offer you. All simple stuff, mostly not done by the committee chair.

Article XI, Section 44, paragraph 9 of the Offishall Forum Rules: "There shall be no eponymous topics". We moderators make 'em up whenever needed.

Why do YOU feel the need to find something in writing. Let the committee member find something in writing to support his misconception.

It's fun to trash the evil "national" eh? As that other guys says, "take some boys camping".

It's not necessary to search for loopholes in the rules. If you're going to ignore them and do your own thing, just DO IT. Nobody is fooled by someone's rationalization.

"The tour permit is needed for BSA Insurance, for the outing, not for planning purposes." That's like saying you must carry your driver license to be covered by car insurance.

Yeah. At the same time, get rid of the AOL patch, since weve been clued in now that it is against the rules to wear anything on the uniform that doesnt represent ones current status. That would also include the Eagle knot, and the AOL knot, and the youth-earned Religious Emblem knot.

Aw, shucks, whatta guy. Makes one feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Heck, I may even take the knots off my uniform.

Would that be the same person that advocates doin yer own thang, and eschews BSA ideology, policy, guidance, and advice?

The purpose of the embroidered knot is to replace the medal it represents, and thus help keep the uniform neat and uncluttered. I must say that characterizing those that wear knots as "decorating" their uniform with amusing doodads seems mighty infantile in itself, We're not here playing this "kids' game" to look down our high and mighty noses at others. Is that really the "example we want to set"? It's not enought that some folks don't want to wear a knot, but they expect others do the same, and belittle those that choose to properly use this small part of BSA insignia. I find it rather disgusting.

The purpose in going to an obscure third party supplier for a customized item, instead of the Scout Shop, is to ensure that no one else will ever be able to get the same thing. You can be unique, be better than the rest.

The "new one" is so lacking in any direction or method, you may as well just make up your own training material.

If two dens use the same number, it would seem to defeat the whole purpose of having a number.

I find it interesting that after all of Gary's explanations of what the LDS Scouting program is and is not, some of you are still stuck on the same preconceived and incorrect beliefs.

Just to be clear - it isn't a "Scouting" program. Scouting or BSA is not involved in any way. It's an activity that Scouts (or anyone) can do.

I agree with what the district commissioner said. Roundtable is to share ideas about things that will enhance the unit's program. Running a training event at RT has two detrimental effects: 1- Folks that would participate in the RT topics skip that and go to the training instead. 2- folks stay home if they know there is training that they've already done or are not interested in. Training events need their own time and place. Certainly though, there can be a training ELEMENT at RT, tailored to the specific program breakout sessions, but not to the exclusion of the primary RT purpose.

Since were clarifying what is fact and what are misstatements or personal opinion, heres another point to refute: The CO Agreement between the chartering and organization, signed each year, and the BSA states that they will use the BSA program as an outreach to the youth of its community. Thats not true either. The charter agreement does say that the CO will Include Scouting as part of its overall program for youth an families. There is no agreement or requirement that any CO must accept all comers, or do outreach to the community. In my personal opinion, the differences in an LDS administered Scouting program are insignificant.

Can the Scoutmaster do a pull-up?? Perhaps he could do the requirement with them.

"This thread probably does belong elsewhere." The topic is about chartered organizations and how they select adult leaders for their troop. If we can keep to that topic there is no need to relegate a good discussion to the junk heap. If you all want to talk about the Bible, religious intolerance, homosexuality, or racial discrimination, use the "spin off new thread" button and start a new discussion. Yes please?

Ask for these at the council office or Scout Shop: A Guide to Working with Scouts with Disabilities #33056 Scouts With Disabilities and Special Needs fact sheet, No. 02-508 Scouting for Youth With Emotional Disabilities, No. 32998D Scouting for Youth With Physical Disabilities, No. 33057D Scouting for Youth With Mental Retardation, No. 33059C Scouting for Youth Who Are Deaf, No. 33061B Scouting for the Blind and Visually Impaired, No. 33063D Scouting for Youth With Learning Disabilities, No. 33065B