fgoodwin

Merlyn_LeRoy writes:Since the BSA is a private organization that can discriminate, the ACLU is making sure government agencies don't practice discrimination by sponsoring BSA packs and troops.I disagree that mere sponsorship of of a BSA Troop means that DoD is discriminating. First of all, there is legal and illegal discrimination; what BSA does is legal discrimination, according to the SCOTUS. In any event, the mere sponsorship of a Troop that denies membership to gays or athiests should not, by itself, be considered discriminatory. If a Scout-like organization came along that admitted

Hunt writes:I took a look at the proposed rules, and I was somewhat surprised to see that they aren't really "equal access for all" rules. They simply say that access can't be denied to certain patriotic groups (including BSA) based on their views. Presumably, the schools could exclude other groups with the same or different views without violating the rules. It's an odd rule, and I'm not sure that the rule is itself constitutional, since it requires public forums to favor particular gIf you feel that strongly, please consider posting your comments to the Dept. of Education. Thye need to hear

Merlyn_LeRoy writes:Both Fred and Bob can't understand principles. They defend the BSA's right to discriminate, yet turn a blind eye when public schools practice discrimination by chartering Packs.I understand that your personal attacks on me and Bob don't fit any of the twelve points of the Scout Law. If you want to debate the issue of school sponsorship of Cub Scout Packs, you are welcome to start your own thread and debate to your heart's content. But that's not the subject of this thread. YiS, Fred Goodwin

Merlyn_LeRoy writes:It's like people are too stupid to understand the difference between a school allowing discriminatory outside organizations to use rooms, versus a school running such a discriminatory organization itself.Save your personal attacks. Like I said, the rule isn't about sponsorship of any organization, its about equal access to all organizations. Fred Goodwin

Merlyn_LeRoy write:I wasn't talking about the rules, I was talking about being treated equally (something you've also been talking about).With all due respect, I started this thread to announce the rulemaking and to give interested persons an opportunity to file comments. It really doesn't matter to me whether folks support the rules or oppose them, but its obvious you aren't really interested in them anyway -- you appear to have an agenda entirely unrelated to the subject of this thread.Are atheists in Blattman Elementary being treated equally when the school itself runs a Cub Pack that excl

Merlyn_LeRoy writes: Hey Fred, do you think that a public school like Blattman Elementary can "own and operate" Pack 2003, and exclude boys who want to join who are atheists? That's your Pack. Do you see nothing illegal about a public school running a youth group that practices religious discrimination?Again, whether or not you or I see a problem with that is irrelevant to the rules under consideration. Nothing in the proposed rules requires public schools to sponsor a Cub Scout Pack. But the proposed rules specifically provide that Packs and Troops cannot be excluded from school mee

KS wrote:Aside from principle, I don't see what the issue is here. We can gnash our teeth all day about a public school allowing the G/L/T Student Club to meet for free in school facilities while BSA is denied that opportunity, for example.The law and these rules are designed to prevent that situation.But, ultimately, a CO is required to provide a place to meet.Agreed, but that's not the issue. The issue is, that Scouts should have the same rights of access to the school (and to the kids) as any other non-profit group. It doesn't matter who the CO is. Even if the CO is a church, the Pack or

acco40 wrote:Is a public school building public property? Yes and no. I believe residents of that school district should have preferred access to use the facility. They school districts should have some say in who they will let use the school facilities. Non-profits, private businesses, private organizations, charities, student organizations, etc. - all should not be forced to come under the same umbrellas. Should an aerobics instructor who wants to use the gym for her high priced clients be treated the same as a Cub Scout Pack for the use of the gymnasium for 1.5 hours? I say let the school a

ALL: This is great discussion. We can debate the pros and cons of the law (and rules) all we want, but anything posted here won't really affect the outcome of the rulemaking. If you really want your views to be heard, I highly suggest you post them to the Dept. of Education: http://comments.regulations.gov/external/Comments.cfm?docketId=04%2D23290 http://tinyurl.com/4fchq If you do decide to post your comments to the Dept. of Education, please be aware that the time to debate the need (or lack of need) for the law has passed. So comments along the lines of "this

Paige Proposes Regulations to Enforce Boy Scouts of America Act The U.S. Department of Education is seeking public comment on proposed regulations that guarantee equal access to public school facilities for the Boy Scouts of America and other patriotic youth groups, Secretary of Education Rod Paige announced today. "The goal of these regulations is to ensure that the Boy Scouts and other patriotic youth groups have equal access to public facilities, and today's action is another step toward achieving this goal," Secretary Paige said. http://www.ed.gov/news/pressreleases/2004/10/

queenj: encourager is right, and I was mistaken in my earlier post. The "Duty to God" brochure clearly states that "community churches" and "independent" Christian churches may use the God & Country materials, and the boy may apply for the age-appropriate medal. Check your local Scout Shop to see if they have the workbooks:God & Me: 1st-3rd gradesGod & Family: 4th & 5th gradesGod & Church: 6th-8th gradesGod & Life: 9th-12th gradesLook for a "mentor" guide so you can help your son progress through his workbook. Your pastor may need a copy of the "counselo

queenj wrote:What about a non-denominational Christian award? I'm positive that the religion I'm (somewhat) following would not develop their own emblem but I want to give my son a choice if he wants to do this acheivement for the religion section or the other one.As I wrote above, if "they" can get together and sponsor a religious emblem I see no reason why your son couldn't earn it and wear his religious knot. The problem is defining a non-denominational "group" to sponsor the medal. BSA won't do it, as these are non-BSA awards open to Girl Scouts, Campfire, 4-H, etc. Another opti

strawberry switchblade wrote:I don't suppose there is an award for Pagan/Earth-Based faiths, is there?As long they believe in God, they are free to develop their own religious award. Go for it. Fred Goodwin Protestant Committee on Scouting Alamo Area Council

Want to start a new Pack or Troop? Everything you need to know about starting a new unit is outlined in the "New Unit Organization Process" (#34196A) and in the "New Unit Organization Kit" (13-563). You should be able to get copies of these materials from your Council Service Center. Given the importance National and local councils place on starting new units, it is odd that finding these materials online is so difficult. Here is one reference I found to the 12-step process for organizing new units: http://www.baltimorebsa.org/council/committees/images/NewUnitProcess.pdf

Sylvia wrote:I just got trained as a religious emblem counselor for the Catholic faith. Other than working with the members of my son's troop, how best to approach other troops? Should I limit contacting other troops to those chartered by a Catholic Church?Sylvia, its great that you want to emphasize the faith element of Scouting! In addition to all of the other great suggestions you've gotten, you might consider putting a poster up at Pow Wow offering your services, because I can see how it might be difficult to reach Catholic boys in non-Catholic units. Also, you might announce yoursel

Very well said. I would hope that if we all follow the Scout Oath and Law, most "netiquette" should come as a natural result.

NWS wrote: First off there is no Explorer Gold award there is a Silver Award in Verturing,. The Venturing Gold has no knot but like Life Scout rank just a waypoint to a higher award. Exploring now is a part of Learning for Life not a part of traditional BSA. There was back in the 50s a Explorers Silver Award or Air Explorers Ace Award and they shares their knot with the Venturing Silver Award. I also can find no reference to a knot for Young American Award. I found this at Mike Walton's website: The present Silver Award knot may be worn by previous holders of any Exploring advan

What wonderful stories! May I add one? Last summer, my son and I were driving out to his Webelos resident camp at Bear Creek (near Hunt, TX). He was a little nervous, because we had just moved, had not yet joined a new pack, and were camping with a pack that had invited us along. So we didn't really know anybody. Anyway, as we got off the highway in Kerrville, we stopped at a Luby's for lunch. We didn't get any free meals, but we sure got some nice glances and waves from the people in the restaurant and in the parking lot. As we left, I told my son that it pays to be in unif

My staff aplication was approved; I'll be working at the Episcopal Church booth / tent in the Relationships area. If you're in the area, please stop by -- I look forward to meeting all of you! Fred Goodwin National Episcopal Scouters Association http://www.episcopal-scouting.org/

Eagle Scout Hans Zeiger is among ten finalists in the MTV-RNC "Stand Up and Holla!" essay competition: http://www.2004nycgop.org/essaycontest/ Fred Goodwin ACM, Pack 2004 Alamo Area Council

[big_Dog] I believe if a scouter earned the religious emblem as a scout, there is a knot he can wear as an adult. So, in that line of thought, I guess you could call it a "God knot". Don't want to get too much on the "God knot" issue or we'll draw Merlyn in here. I just believe that wearing a knot to let a scout know that you are "gay-friendly" (from the original article) is just trying an end-run around the stance BSA has taken. [/big_Dog] Not to mention the gay-knot is unofficial and is not authorized for wear on a Scouter's uniform. Regardless of the politics behind it, such unof

[John-in-KC] We discussed this at PTC last summer, in the conference I attended. Granted, my conference was during Relationships Week, but... [/John-in-KC] John, I was at PTC last summer for "Scouting in the Church's Ministry". Which conference were you in? Fred Goodwin, Episcopal Scouter Alamo Area Council, BSA Diocese of West Texas, ECUSA

John in KC said: It's MORE THAN WORTH THE MONEY to attend Philmont Training Center for the Scouting in the Church's Ministry conference!!! Allow me to second John's endorsement of the PTC Course, "Scouting in the Church's Ministry". I attended last summer and learned a lot. For those who want to see Scouting embraced by more churches, and who want to ensure the faith component of Scouting isn't forgotten, I cannot recommend it highly enough. Fred Goodwin, PCOS Alamo Area Council

FOG said: Many, many, many years ago, when the military still issued shirts without stays in the collar, you used a nifty spring loaded device called a "Spiffy" to hold your collar straight THAT'S IT!! Thanx, FOG, I had totally forgotten what it was called. Now I know what to ask for. Then BP said: Is this what you're looking for ? http://www.muldoons.com/sgarter.html Could be -- I'll check it out. Does anyone here actually try to wear a tie with the leader shirt? I have several green BSA ties, but the collar won't hold its shape and it ends up looking sloppy

RE: "Orange" Tiger service stars: One more thing I'll leave this dead horse alone: Mike Walton has a discussion of this issue on his webpage, and it is consistent with what FOG and I wrote: http://www.mninter.net/~blkeagle/yearpins.htm **NOTE ON TIGER CUB YEAR PINS**: The BSA has informed local Councils that starting with the 2001 program year, Tiger Cub Scouting will be fully integrated into the Cub Scouting program and will no longer be a stand-alone program. As such, some Councils have already started the transition THIS YEAR (2000) to get ahead of the game, so to spea