Eamonn

I ran into the very same problem!! http://www.leaderlore.com/totems.html Isn't a big help!! I found having the staff explain their totems worked well for us. But I did print the sheet from leaderlore and added it to all the participants notebooks. Eamonn Course Director NE-IV-153

"A scout should direct any uniform questions to his patrol leader." Of course as in this case when he is the Patrol Leader, he might: Be happy with the answer he comes up with? Be ready for people wearing white jackets who come to take him away? When he isn't happy with his answer and keeps telling himself that he is wrong. Get some strange looks from the other Scouts, who think he is nuts for talking to himself. Resign and ask the new PL? (I'm sorry it was just too easy!!) Margaret, Welcome to the forum. I'm happy to go along with scoutldr. Eamonn.

Talking with some of the Unit Leaders in the District, I get the feeling that a good many of them expect the District to organize, plan and run things, which they will participate in. For example. Someone messed up and the Spring Camporee somehow ended up on Mother's Day Weekend. At the District meeting I said that this wasn't a good thing. We went around and around, I offered to organize and run a one day orienteering event / competition. Some members of the District Committee were unhappy. Their reasoning being that we need a camp for the younger Scouts who crossed over, before they go to summer camp. I got some really strange looks when I said it was up to the Troop to organize a monthly outdoor event and they really shouldn't rely on the District to provide them with their program. The District Membership Committee has come up with a plan for the Spring Tiger Recruitment. The Committee is all set to contact the schools, has events that Packs can use if they want to use them. Flyer's can be made and sent home with the little fellows. But the committee feels that it is up to each Pack to decide if they want to participate and if they do participate they need to come up with: When, Where and man the event. I'm now being told that this isn't the way it should be done!! A good many of the Pack Leaders feel that the Committee should take on running the entire show! Am I wrong? I see the District working to help and support the units not taking over tasks that the unit should or could do if they want to. Eamonn

"he wasn't a good scoutmaster, but he was a great marketer." Kinda have to think this was me!! Back when I first became a Scout Leader (It was in the UK and we didn't have SM's.) I was very young. I had a very big ego!! Looking back I think more than anything I just wanted to prove something. I really wanted to get the kids that normally didn't join Scouts into Scouts. We got the membership up to 90 Scouts. 60% Were non-white. I of course wasn't married and the Troop was my life. At that time I put Scouts and Scouting before everything. Just about everything I did was in someway connected to Scouting. After about nine years of building the Troop up, it just became too much! The Troop was meeting three times a week (Games on Wednesday, Swimming on Thursday, Troop Meeting on Friday and away to some sort of Camping trip after the meeting) We (The Group Committee and myself) decided that we would split the Troop. About this time I became Executive Chef for the BBC and had to take my work a little more seriously! I was also spending a lot of time flying across the pond to spend time with my future bride. Things just didn't work out well with two Troops. We lost a lot of Scouts, so we went back to just having one with the sixty or so Scouts we had left. Big Troops can be good. But if I had to do it again? I think the Troop I was in as a Scout with 35 -45 Scouts is about the right size. Without wanting to put anyone down. I think tiny Troops who remain tiny!! Must have a heck of a time trying to deliver a quality program. Eamonn.

Gilwell Park & Jamborees are not normal camping, are they? Gilwell was normal camping for us and a lot of other Troops from the London area. If you look back at most of the camp sites owned by the Scout Association (With the exception of Great Tower) most were not very big and due to having so many campers, were very crowded. Back in the time of BP, while many Troops did use trek-carts to move their equipment, it was by no means light-weight. Even when I was active on that side of the pond we used six-man patrol tents for normal Patrol camps (Using light weight gear for hikes and that sort of thing.) The 17th Fulham (Pioneers) had 14 Patrols!! While Walton Firs was the camp we used most (Mainly because I was a Service Team Member) Gilwell was handy for Patrol Camps, as the Scouts could get there on the train from Liverpool Street to Chingford and the carry their gear the last mile or so! To the site. I'm sure for Troops that were located in the countryside things might have been very different. Due to the amount of gear it took to get the entire Troop to camp, we really pushed Patrol Camping. Our two week Summer camp was at times like trying to move a small army!! We loaded the gear on vans and found ways of transporting the Scouts, normally by public transport. We camped in Ireland, Holland, Switzerland and had one summer camp here in the USA. Using a Council ran Summer camp for one week and spending one week in Canada with borrowed equipment for another week. Wood Badge at Gilwell was supposed to be about how things are done in a normal everyday Troop!! We did camp as Patrols and were treated as if we were Scouts. Maybe BP was right in the days before WWI? But as we know things changed a lot after WWI and even more so after WWII. I kinda think if BP were around today he might have to have a rethink. Ea. (I was trying to see if I could find more information about early Scouts going to camp. I did find some in An Official History of Scouting by Paul Moynihan a book I don't have!! I just ordered it from Amazon! I'll let you know what I think of it, when it arrives!) Ea.

" follow Baden-Powell's rule to keep the Patrols separated by 300 feet," This 300 "Rule"? Has never been applied at Gilwell Park. There just isn't enough space. Even the Patrols taking Wood Badge (Back when the UK still used Patrols) on the Training Grounds never camped like that . Eamonn

My take on this. The Scout Oath reads: On my honor I will do my best To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; To help other people at all times; To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight. I see the words "On my" and "I And "My" again! This to me gives ownership of the oath to the person making it. Only they know if they are doing their best to obey the Scout Law. As owners it is up to them to decide which point is most important to them or if they want to treat them all as being equal. Some of us at times might have a much harder time keeping one point than the others, some just seem to fall into place. Having said all that for me the most important point is Kind, My thinking being that if I can be kind most of the others do fall into place. Needless to say some days I more kind than others. As long as the person making the Oath has ownership, no one else should worry or try to pass judgments on what point they decide or don't decide to make most important. Eamonn.

Stosh Your posting reminded me of my dear old Dad. Dad ended up being a fairly wealthy man. I tend to think that he didn't really understand credit, he never had or used a credit card. Never financed a car (He never ever bought a new one!!) One year he sent me over to Ireland to buy a house that he wanted and loaded me up with cash. You should have seen the fuss that caused in the Irish lawyers office. Him and my Mother had their own way of doing things!! She never worked outside of the home, he gave her the weekly housekeeping money in cash. She somehow managed to save what she could putting money into Building Society accounts (Kinda like Credit Unions.) She put th cash in and when she wanted cash visited the office and took cash out. When my Dad died we had to teach her how to write a check, as she never had written one. This might sound strange but back then people in the UK got pay packets with cash inside and there was little need for ordinary working people to use banks. A lot of this seems to have rubbed off on me. I do have credit cards, but rarely if ever use them. I tend to wait until I can pay for something before I rush out and buy it. We still have some small home town banks where I live. I use them for my business accounts, we have a wonderful working relationship and they have been very understanding in the past. Sadly it seems that local small town banks are on the way out something which I feel will hurt small local businesses. Eamonn.

I don't think I have anything to hide?? I'm in no way scared or afraid of the check. But.. I have seen DE's collect adult application forms and place them in a case on the back seat of their car. What happens if the car is stolen? Applications are left in unattended offices in the Council Service Center. I'm not sure but I think I remember hearing that the company that does the checks was a victim of having its computers hijacked (or whatever the term is?). I seem to remember that there was a very long period of time from when it happened and the company and the BSA telling anyone that it had happened. I have for work been well checked!! But I work with convicted criminals, while I'm sure that no computer base is 100% safe. I do tend to think that I'd sooner place my trust with a agency like the FBI or the State Police than some company that the BSA choose because they came in with the lowest bid for doing the checks. Eamonn.

Beavah While there is some truth in what you say. Still if a Camping Committee is going to help units that are not offering an outdoor program, they do need to know who is and who isn't? Of course if the only reason for the question is just to keep the paperwork up to date? Then it does fall under the heading of busy work. If after asking and finding out that a Unit is not offering a program, nothing is done? Shame on the committee! Of course, it might be said that the information should be available from the Tour Permits, but not everyone files these! Or maybe the UC should be on hand to give an update? But UC's are rare birds in some areas. We might hope that all members of the District Committee are warm, friendly, cuddly people with only the best of intentions. But some at times do forget that Unit Service is one of the four functions of the District. Sometimes even the dumbest of tasks result in real service. - Maybe not all the time? But maybe some of the time,"eh?" Eamonn.

I'm 101% for everyone being checked. However, I'm not very happy with the way the paper work is done. In these days when identity theft seems to be on the rise, me giving someone with little or no training in any sort of security my SSN. Is a little worrying. The amount of information that a unit might have on a volunteer is really worrisome. Troopmaster has spaces for Date of birth, SSN,Drivers License,Employer. Just think what a field day a crook could have with all that information? The same information is now required on the adult application form. Do we know how well this information is being looked after? Who has access to it? Where and how is it stored? I'd sooner have an outside agency (The FBI? Or State Police?) Do the check and then I could provide the people who need to know that I have been checked with a notification that I passed the check. Of course if I didn't, I would be asked to pack my bags and hit the road. I really think this entire system needs to be looked at and changed. Eamonn.

SSScout, A couple of years back I sat in on a Finance meeting of our Area. I had been asked to explain to a room full of professionals why the District I served was so successful with our District Community Campaign.. The meeting was held in a conference room in a hotel. 13 Councils were represented. I was the only non-pro in the room. I knew a good many of the SE's, mainly from my involvement in WB and the Jamborees. I seem to remember that there were about sixty people in the room. The meeting started with everyone getting up, saying who they were, what Council they came from and how long they had been on the job. I was really taken back by the number of people who had so little time in. A good number had less than a year!! Talking with the SE's it seemed to me that none of them had any real training in how to bring home "Real Money". Not one Council had ever hired a Grant Writer and a few SE's had no idea what I was talking about. A number of the Councils were not in any way actively looking for or trying to get any type of grants from foundations or places like that. In fact most seemed happy to keep on doing things the way they had always done them. I was given a CD with the latest thinking that National had on Finance. It wasn't that enlightening. I think we are all aware that money is needed in order for us to do what our Vision and Mission statements say that we will do. Of course if the money just isn't there and isn't coming in, services have to be cut. Sometimes this can be a good thing. Here in the tiny Council I serve, over the past few years we have seen the Assistant Scout Executive and the Field Director positions been done away with. To be honest I haven't noticed any big change in the services provided to the Units and while not having a Field Director has at times allowed DE's to not perform up to what I think is an acceptable standard, I'm kinda willing to accept the savings made by the Council by not having to pay for a Field Director as the price for this lack luster performance. I'm not exactly sure what a DE costs? I'm thinking with salary and benefits the cost must be close to $65k a year for a new DE. The recommendation was that a DE should serve about 1,000 youth members. This of course would mean that we need $65.00 per youth member per year just to pay the DE. I really don't think DE's are over-paid. In fact I'm sure that if the starting salary was any less we just wouldn't attract anyone! Councils do need to be more careful with how they spend the money they do have. Council Executive Boards do need to go over the budgets that the SE prepares, making sure that they are realistic and not based on wishful thinking and "Stretch Goals". Some cuts are unavoidable. Sadly some of these cuts will upset some people. This year will be a really tough year for everyone. Our Council does receive a percentage of the interest that the endowment fund makes each year. We have all seen how bad things have been in the financial markets. Ordinary everyday overhead bills for heating and lighting the Council Service Centers along with providing gas to transport DE's to where they need to be have gone through the roof. Health insurance for Council employees has gone up a lot. The list goes on. To my way of thinking what we have in place right now, just doesn't work. It doesn't seem fair to me that some people go above and beyond while others are happy to do nothing. It could be that the entire way we are set up needs a re-think? I don't know what this might mean or entail. Some of the small Councils are just not going to make it. Here in the part of PA where I live we have a fair amount of these smaller Councils. Councils that operate Summer Camps with less than 500 Scouts attending all Summer?? Camps that are just not being used? Or are under used? Many of us have fond memories of these places and many of us have strong emotional ties to belonging to a Council or a District. This is a good thing, but unless we are willing to put our money where our mouth is! Who pays to keep all of these up and running? Councils do need to do a better job of not relying on the volunteers for as much of the income as they have in the past. I know that $100.00 a year membership is not enough, but if everyone paid the $100.00 we would be better off than we are now. Councils do need to watch each and every cent that is spent, ensuring that they do provide the best possible services. But we the volunteers also need to get away from thinking that just because we volunteer and give our time that we can get away with not putting our hand in our pockets. "He works to pay his own way..." Eamonn.

I think back in the 1800's the Brits did take a look at what the French were doing. About 25 years ago two female teachers and myself took a group of English high school students, who were studying culinary arts over to France. We had a free afternoon and took the kids to down town Paris and let them loose to do some shopping. The two female teachers and myself also took the opportunity to visit the big stores. While in a very big store, kinda like Harrods, my companions ad to go the Ladies room. They came out giggling like two school girls. It seems that in the bathroom there was an attendant, who took care of the room and handed out towels. Of course there was a plate near by for people to leave a tip. My friends had left a 10 centimes coin in the plate. There was of course 100 centimes,to a franc and at that time a there were about 10 French Francs to the British Pound (I think the Pound was worth about $2.00) My big tipping friends had left a tip of about one cent!! The attendant had seen this and gave them a nasty look while saying "Ou-lar-lar!!" I think the kids did a lot better with handling the French currency than my two companions did. Eamonn.

Back in 1977 after spending the Summer working as an International Camp Counselor, for which there was no pay!! The BSA provided a bus for all the ICC's and a tour of the East Coast. The final stop was at the old National HQ. In New Jersey. It was great a lot of the Rockwell Painting were on display. The idea of moving the HQ to Canada?? Does have some merit. Bad thing is that our friends in Canada no longer sing God Save The Queen as often as they used too. Eamonn.

Your math is spot on! I just rounded it up. 15 February 1971 was Decimal Day in the UK. The shilling was done away with. Where there used to be 12 pennies to a shilling and 20 Shillings to a pound. On 15 February 1971 the New Penny hit the streets worth 2.4 old pennies. A new half-penny was also brought in. It didn't last very long. 1960 was the last year that the Farthing (Worth a quarter of an old penny) The "Ten-Bob note" was replaced with the 50p coin. A lot of churches who were used to having people drop a Half-crown in the plate felt the pinch as the half-crown went when the decimal currency came along, the Half-crown being worth two shillings and sixpence (12.5 new-pence)It was replaced by a 10p coin (Worth two shillings) There were some very unhappy Priests. Eamonn.

I was just a teenager in the 1960's. For me it was a time of Homework. Buying 45's (Six shillings and sixpence each 3 for a Pound.) More homework. Scouting. More Homework. Playing Rugby. More and more homework. Trips to Ireland. Learning to ride a horse. Exams and more homework. Beatles Movies. Working in a local hardware store -Delivering Cat litter to Mick Jagger's home in Chelsea. Watching some really great tennis at Wimbledon. Watching some great cricket at Lord's. And more homework. None of this did me any great harm. But the 70's were a lot more fun!! Ea.

When a District Director grows up he or she becomes a Field Director. We said good-bye to our SE a little time back. He went to the big metro Council, next door as a FD. Not such a nice title, but more money. Last I heard he was on his way to Texas to work in the National Office. It seems he is going to now work with LFL in the area of Homeland Security??? The guy he replaced is also working in the National Office, he is in charge of collecting bad debts !! At this rate maybe moving the National Office to PA seems like a good idea. Ea.

Lisabob Far be it for me to tell anyone how to spend their hard earned cash. I don't buy into this running total thingymebobsywotsit. Scouting is my hobby. I don't hunt, so I'm not buying guns, ammo, the gear that you might need to go hunting. I have been to some Wild Turkey Federation and Ducks Unlimited Banquets and people who attend are not shy about putting their hand in their pocket to support these causes. I no longer play golf (Due to my poor old back!!) I never was much good anyway. I did pay the membership fee to join our local club (Have since changed it to a family pool membership) I pay $125.00 a month for food and drinks. It makes no difference if I eat or drink the $125 ! I get charged anyway!! Pals of mine fork over big bucks for special clubs and travel all over the USA and beyond to play. Some help support Scouting by playing in Council golf outing fund-raising event. Visit my basement and there is some boxes (Lots of boxes) OJ got his first Nintendo when he was about 8. I can't remember what he system player cost? I'm guessing about $100. It's in the box with a stack of games that cost me about $20.00 each. We upgraded to the super Nintendo which cost more and the games went to $30.00 each. We have a stack of them. After that we got the Play station. Same thing more money and the games cost more!! Now we have the X-Box. the last games I paid for were $60 each. He is on his third laptop. The last one was an Apple which cost me over $2,000. Scouts and Scouting, even with the uniforms and extra events such as Jamborees, NOAC, Philmont. Is by far the cheapest activity he has been in. Even a simple game like soccer, with special boots and over priced Soccer Camps ended up costing me more than Scouting. I just thanked my lucky stars that he wasn't playing ice hockey!! I got conned into doing a FOS presentation last night. The Troop is located in a small rural community. The charter said that the Troop has 33 Scouts. My presentation wasn't that bad. I got 17 cards back. A couple were for over $300.00, most were for $100.00 a couple were around $50.00 I came away thinking that it had been worth my while to drive out there. But the hard truth is that nearly half the families are not doing anything to support the Council. I know it's been a tough year. I've "Lost" a lot of money in the market and from my investments, I'm paying the high price for gas and heating oil. I put off buying the new car I'd promised myself. I'm sure that some people can't afford some of the things that might be nice to do -Like supporting their Council. But I'm wondering what these people would do if the Council wasn't there? No summer Camp? No Council Service Center close to home? No local support? I'm 100% for bringing Traditional Scouting units to areas where they could do some real good. But I think we all know that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Eamonn.

I don't know about sailing. I have heard he is great at Dish Washing and making sure that people in parachutes don't end up landing on Englishman's heads. On a serious note Well Done. Eamonn.

"No one should force the unit to make a contribution to the council or district beyond what is required during rechartering." ??? What is required? I know in our Council $10.00 goes to National for membership and $1.00 goes to insurance. The Council doesn't see a cent!! Ea.

I'm not sure that I respect the insignia as much as some of the people who wear it. A few years back a lot of people in our Council were a little put out when a local businessman was awarded the Silver Beaver. I don't have my Silver Beaver Certificate handy, but I seem to remember it is awarded for services to youth. This man donates a lot of lumber to our Council, organizes a golf outing which brings in over $100,000 a year and a clay pigeon shoot that brings in about another $20,000. No he doesn't take Scouts anyplace and as far as I know doesn't play an active role in the Council. In my book he has done a lot for the youth in our Council. Of course he can afford it, but maybe he can't afford the time that the average everyday (if there is such a thing??) Scouter puts in? I have friends who whole heartedly support Scouting but because of their jobs they are unable to give the time so they make up for it with donations of cash. As for myself. I'm very proud to be a Queen's Scout. Even though I'm not allowed to wear the badge. I was honored to receive the District Award of Merit and the Silver Beaver. I'm proud to wear the Distinguished Commissioner award/knot. I think it's kinda neat that I'm the only person in our Council with the International Scouter's Award. I'm very proud of the Saint George Award. I'm happy to wear my Wood Badge beads. While I was honored to receive Vigil Honor (After 25 years in the Lodge) I do think that OJ played a big part in me receiving it and that maybe there were a lot more people worthy than myself. While I have at one time or another taken just about every training that the BSA has ever come up with. Over the years I for reasons I'm not sure of?? Just view these as not being so important to me any more. As for the awards given for donating money to the Council. Back in 2001 I took some of our Roman Catholic Scouts to Mass at the Jamboree. It was raining really hard. We found what we thought was a good spot, with a good view. A group of adults came and stood right in front of us and then pulled out a big tarp, which they used to wrap the entire group in. I was upset. So I moved myself and the Scouts right in front of them (Talk about setting a terrible example!!). Next thing was they invited us to come and share their tarp! I by now was thinking that God was teaching me a lesson. The group were from California. After Mass they gave all the Scouts and myself patches with some Space Ship on. I'm now feeling lower than the mud in my shoe. Next they invite us into the Hospitality Tent that the BSA has set up. Inside is hot drinks, danishes, dough-nuts, juice and cookies. The Scouts think they have died and gone to Heaven!! Soon some guy comes over and tells us that we shouldn't be there!! The people from California get very upset and explain that we are their guests. I removed my rain gear. I'm wearing a uniform with every knot I ever was awarded and yellow loops (My area Committee Uniform -We had a meeting at the Jamboree) I very nicely explained to the person who was trying to throw us out, that not only was he being very rude, but I did have an invitation to the tent because I was a Founders Circle Member.(I pulled a very wet paper out of my pocket) He mumbled something about not knowing and went away with his tail firmly between his legs. Un-Scoutlike as it might be I have to admit to enjoying every minute of it and I was happy to turn a blind eye when the Scouts filled their pockets with stuff to bring back to the other Scouts. They well may be the most expensive pastries ever? But in many ways it was worth it!! Eamonn. (This message has been edited by Eamonn)

DugDirt Hi and Welcome. What you post is already being done -That's what the community Campaign does!! Ea.

Lisabob Units could if they wanted opt to raise the council fee making it a Unit budget item? From my point of view, what we have now just seems unfair. Some people do support the Council by donating to FOS and participating in Council fund raising events, while others do nothing. I also kinda think that if we paid a fee councils would have to be more accountable for how the money was spent. Of course the sad thing is that most Councils say that it costs a lot more than $100.00 per person to provide the services that they provide. Eamonn.

Argyle Go and buy a big box of chocolates, visit the Council Registrar. Give her the chocolates, ask her to look at the training records and put them right. Open the chocolates and enjoy them with her. After all life is a box of... Ea.

Roots and Wings! Ea.