Eamonn

"By-laws demonstrates the channels a pack/troop can follow as far as legal issues," ??? What does this mean? Ea

As ever I'm at sixes and sevens with this one. Most of the lists of whateveryouwanttocall'em seem to get in the way. This is especially true when it comes to these things when they deal with the youth members. Units try to do stuff that is either already covered by the BSA. I'm thinking about what a uniform is? Requirements for advancement and that sort of stuff. They try to lay down rules for attendance, but end up having to make so many exceptions that the rule becomes so full of holes that it becomes meaningless. My hope for the youth we serve is that they choose to do the right thing because it's just the right thing to do. I don't need a rule for kids of Scouts to brush their teeth. I kinda just expect that they will and if they don't? That is up to them. I'm not good enough or clever enough to have rules and regulations that cover every situation. So I'm happy to fall back on the good old Scout Law and Oath. For a lot of stuff I'm happy to deal with it as it comes along. We don't in the Ship have a rule about how the funds from fund raising events are managed. The QD decides that before the event. Sometimes all the money goes toward repairs, sometime all the money goes toward the Scouts and them paying for something, sometimes it's a split. We used to elect new QD Officers every six months but the QD changed that, right now they serve for a year, but there is no reason why the QD couldn't change it again. After all it is when it comes to the management of the stuff that effects them, their Ship. The Ship's Committee is a very informal committee, they do meet once a month, most of the time but have when everyone is busy and they have felt that there is no real urgent need for a meeting skipped a month. For the most part it is a monthly meeting of friends who share a common interest in he good of the kids that are in the Ship. 99.9% of the time they go along with and support the stuff the Skipper comes up with, which is the stuff that the kids have said that they are planning to do. A lot of the time the Scouts have talked with their parents who are on the committee and they know about this stuff even before the Skipper does. When I was Skipper, I did at times make up my own rules as I went along. Most times these weren't so much rules just requests that I made. Things like not talking on cell phones in the van. No kissing and that sort of thing between boy friends and girl friends on Ship activities. For the most part over the years I have been happy to stumble along dealing with each and every situation as it comes up and have never felt the need for lists of these whateveryouwanttocall'ems. If others feel a need? That's up to them. Eamonn

No! - Not a word!! I'll send Terry an email. Eamonn (Many of you do have my email address.) Ea.

Hadn't used it for a while. So I sent you a pm about a minute ago. Let everyone know if you get it or not. Ea

Lisa, Please don't worry. We didn't have any problems in 2001 or in 2005. I of course am not any of the Scouts mother! I did preach before we went the importance of good daily hygiene. Including the need for clean underwear. You have been fortunate not to have seen a photo of me in BSA shorts! My legs (other than the sexy knees.) look like a couple of tooth-picks hanging out. OJ has much fatter legs and big thighs, his shorts rub his legs and tend to be tight. Not sure if he walks funny?? But he tends to wear holes in the lower part of the shorts under the crutch. This rubbing can be painful. He is a 38 inch waist but wears 42 inch BSA shorts. It can be hot and very humid. There is no place to go to get out of the heat and the humidity. Even at night it's hot. The lines for what water activities there are are long. Kids who are not used to being on the go, at the Jamboree are like that Energizer Bunnie, they keep going and going and then go some more. Having enough clean shorts before the start of the Jamboree is a great idea. We did use the bucket with a toilet plunger system and while it works there isn't any rinse cycle and it hard to add a dryer sheet. The clothes air dried on a line tend to be a little stiff. When it's not humid, it's raining. It's still hot but the rain tends to come down in really heavy storms. Gear that isn't packed right gets wet. drying it wouldn't be a big problem if the Scouts weren't trying to be like that darn Bunnie! There are a couple of Laundromats at the Fort, but finding them is hard and when you do find one there is a very long line. (We had parents who were staying in near-by motels who took the Scouts laundry. So marking everything and I mean everything is a good idea. I get some strange looks at work when I take a shower and the guys see that I have my name on my underwear. While I'm sure the stuff that others have said works great. Both OJ and myself did fine with good old Johnson's Baby Powder. Gold Bond foot powder. The Scouts will walk far more than they do at most summer camps. Good footwear is a must. Boots if they are not used to wearing them? Might be a little to heavy. But no matter what (I like Timberland walking shoes with the goretex inners) the shoes need to be well broken in. I ran out of clean socks and nearly died when I had to spend $13.95 on a pair from the trading post! But these are the best socks I ever wore (for $13.95 they ought to be!) Our guys really liked the boating areas (I wonder why??) Much at times to the displeasure of the people staffing the area they enjoyed splashing and trying to get each other soaking wet. (Hey it was hot!) Walking back to our camp site in wet swimming gear was maybe not the best of ideas. But there really isn't a lot of choice. This can lead to some chafing. As a leader at the Jamboree, I was a lot more ... Shall we say "Relaxed" than I would normally be. I didn't make as big deal about the site being picture perfect as I might normally do. If there was nothing happening after supper, I seen no big rush to have the meal ready by a set time. In fact a lot of times the cooks who came back early in order to cook the meal, enjoyed the peace and fell asleep while there was hardly anyone around. I let them nap! While I pretended to be upset with the Lads who took off for a late night shower. The truth is that very often when everyone was in bed, I'd sneak off myself. While I was not the mother of any of the Scouts, I suppose I was a bit of an old Mother Hen! The safety and well being of the Scouts in my charge was and I hope always will be my main concern. Please don't worry. I'm willing to bet the guy who SM for your son's Troop is as big a Mother Hen as I am. Eamonn.

"This is the reason why individual units should never have their own tax exempt status since there are annual reporting requirements" Said who? The main reason the Ship went this route was so that we could accept donations of boats and be able to provide the needed paperwork so the person donating could claim the donation. I don't have any problem what so ever having my accountant take care of the necessary forms. As for an audit? We have absolutely nothing to hide and while it might be an inconvenience and the accountant might charge me. I really don't see it as a big deal. Not to change the subject but sometime back another forum member posted that all units are supposed to make their CO aware of their financial dealing each and every year. Have to admit to having never done so. Ea.

"We were in subcamp 17 ..." Out there in the boonies!! Ea.

I don't read the guideline the same way as Ed does! The "Book" answer is that he can't. I'd go with the kids in one tent and you in another. If I were in your situation a lot would depend on my relationship with my nephew. If he was the kid that was always in my house and we did a lot of stuff outside of Scouting? I'd more than lightly turn a blind eye to the guideline. But if he was a kid that I only seen once a week at the Den Meeting and had little interaction with I'd have him not stay with me. I know this sounds like I'm playing around with the rules, but there are different courses for different horses. Ea.

As a Trainer I have been known to go on and on about all the good stuff like the aims and methods. As a leader?? Kinda have to own up to most of the time putting all that good stuff on a very low back burner. My main motivation has always been "Hey! That looks like fun!!" It's easy for me to look at what we have done and pair it up with the methods. But th truth is when we decided to do it, I never really gave these a second thought. I could take a deep breath, stick my chest out and go on about how the program we have is a "Well rounded program" Which might well be very true? But more often than not we kinda fall into doing the right thing. The Patrol that works together cooking and cleaning up at camp is using a lot of the methods. But they cooked the meal because they needed to eat, they worked as a team because they know this gets the job done and they want to get it done so they can move on to the next activity. We are where we are (At a camp?) Because they said this is where they wanted to be, mainly because being there offered the opportunity to do something that they wanted to do. Yes I'm very guilty of providing more than a little nudge in planting the idea of us doing it and most times its things that I enjoy doing. I'm not ever going to push for the Ship to go skiing. I don't ski and it's cold! They have gone snow tubing, because that is what the QD came up with. Sure we all have copies of the Sea Scout Manual and do at times use them solely for advancement. We do try and marry up the stuff from the manual with things that we are going to do. Ea.

I of course can't speak for other parents. My kid is an only child and only children are supposed to be spoiled. I don't know how you go about "Spoiling" a child? I don't think you can love, hold, kiss or spent too much time with your kids. When he was a little fellow, I wanted him to do well. Of course him being an only child, I didn't have anything to look back on. I read a few books about parenting trying to make up for the fact that when he came there wasn't an instruction manual. When he started school, just like my parents had done I studied his report cards, never missed a parent teacher conference. I was un-happy when the reports were not good, the grades were not the best and at one time one teacher had me almost convinced that my kid was running a good chance of being the next ax murderer. There were times when I felt I was going to join him! I felt like getting my ax out and using it on the more than smug parents who had kids that never did anything wrong and got all A's. Over time I came to see that there were things that he just wasn't good at. Worse still I found that I had to accept that he didn't share the same interests as I had. To be very honest that was hard on me and hurt. While I did chastise him at times for being a lazy little toad and as he found interests that I didn't or just didn't understand, I found myself saying things like "As long as he is happy". Still deep inside I was envious of the parents who had kids who were going to be the next great doctor or rocket scientist. For years, no matter how bad things were I had put money aside to ensure that his college education was paid for and that he would never have the burden of carrying a large amount of debt. I was sad as I watched him try to get used to college. I just couldn't understand why I who had such a great time at college could have a son who just wasn't making it. He dropped out of college and went on to take a EMT test which he passed. Right now he is really happy working as an EMT with plans to become a paramedic or maybe a RN/ Paramedic. He isn't earning that much money. In fact he is always broke. But he is doing what he wants to do and enjoying it. I come from a family where all of us really wanted to make our parents proud. Dad had left Ireland with next to nothing and worked his tail off. While he of course provided us with a nice home and comfortable family life. Part of his drive came from the days when he first left Ireland and in England there were signs "No Irish Need Apply". He wanted to show everyone that the Irish were more than just a crowd of hard drinking Navies. His way of doing this was through his kids. We his kids wanted to do everything we could to please him and maybe in some way re-pay him for his hard work. To this day I still remember the hurt look in his eye when I brought home a report card that didn't meet or live up to his expectations. I don't know what motivates the young girl in this news article? While I would as a parent be very worried about allowing my kid to take on something like this, my hope is that she is doing it because she wants to not to just be as good as her brother or to in some way please her parents. Eamonn.

nrp1488 I do see where you are coming from. However the showers are not communal. I don't know about others, but taking a shower with clothes on?? Just seems odd to me. A Lad who is shy can of course wear his swimming gear and then remove it when he is in the shower. boomerscout, makes some good and valid points. OJ was at not the last NOAC, but the one before that. I forget where it was held. Not sure what he was up to?? (I wasn't there!) But in the early hours of the morning he found that he'd managed to pick up a tick. He phoned his Mom, who was working the night shift at our local hospital, in the ER. The ER Doc got on the phone and talked him through removing it. Of course the medical staff at the Jamboree are really first class and are never that far away. Eamonn.

SR540Beaver What sub camp were you in? We never had any such problems. nrp1488 This might sound like a good idea, but there are a lot of ticks around Fort AP Hill. Unsprayed areas are marked, but sometimes it takes more than a sign to keep a Scout out! When preparing the Scouts for the Jambo I made a point of telling them to check for ticks. This would be really hard if they kept their swimsuits on. One sub camp at the 2005 Jambo was trying out a new Shower Trailer, kinda like the ones that the staff used. I'm not sure how it worked out or if they are going to make them available this year? To be honest even with the heat in 2005, our guys didn't seem to have a problem. They did take at least one shower a day. A couple used to try and sneak off at bedtime which meant that when the SPL did the late night check, he was none too happy. I had brought a lifetime supply of toilet tissues with me, which one of the ASM's made available. Nothing worse than going to do the paper work and then finding that there is none or that it's soaking wet. Sweating is the natural way for the body to cool. We need to tell the Scouts that while antiperspirants under the arms is OK. They need not go crazy with it. I tried the Under Armour underwear and really didn't like it. When some of our guys heard that a Troop from Connecticut had some female Scouts from Poland camping with them, they doused themselves in Ax aftershave and paid a visit. The smell was over-powering! But I of course used the opportunity to pull their legs! Ea.

Scoutfish I have never seen your name and thought that you are asking dumb questions. So please feel free to ask away. I have just replied to the question you asked about LNT. I kinda think if I were the CM and you were a D/L,I might be a little worried that you are trying to run before you can walk. The program is build in such a way so that one skill lays the foundation for the next. This is very important when dealing with Cub Scouts. I have met and had to deal with guys who seem to think that Cub Scouts are Boy Scouts in a blue uniform and that all Boy Scouts are training to be members of the SAS! You might want to think about maybe slowing down a little. The program is not rocket science. Our role as adult leaders is to provide the program for the kids we have. This of course changes as the group changes. The skills you need are the skills that the Scouts you are dealing with require. Take the time to study the age appropriate activities for the age group that you are dealing with. Read the laid down requirements and then look for fun and imaginative ways dealing with the requirements. Search out people who have the experiences that will be able to help. Attend the trainings and R/T meetings. Look for tailor made activities for the group that you are working with. I got a lot of ideas and help from attending Cub Scout resident camps. It's great to think "Out of the box", but always remember the age and the comfort zone of the kids that you are dealing with. Ea.

Scoutfish, At the risk of sounding like someone who babies young Lads. I would not take Webelos Scouts to a camp where cat holes were needed. My big fear is that this would scare them off from joining a Troop and future Scouting activities. I see Webelos Scout camping as a introduction to camping and the great outdoors. While I know a lot of young Lads would see pooping in the woods as a great adventure, I also know that there are a good many who just would refuse to go and this while maybe not a big risk for serious injury or harm could lead to the Lad being very uncomfortable. A lot has been written about using the bathroom in the outdoors. Some of the ideas that were once accepted have now been challenged and some changed (I'm thinking mainly of smearing.) One great story I heard from a friend who used to be a SM of a Troop in Punxsutawney. (Jeff Biddle). Jeff and the Troop had an arrangement that the Troop could camp for a week on a little island that someone owned. The paddled out with their gear, everything they needed for a week. A P/L came to Jeff and very proudly stated that he had perfected the fine art of pooping in a zip-lock bag. Jeff said that this was great,but asked how the Lad got rid of the bag. The P/L explained that he burnt it. Jeff was a little surprised and asked if he was burning it on the Patrol cooking fire? The Lad became very indignant and told Jeff not to be silly, he was burning it on another Patrols cooking fire. By far the best way to deal with poop is to pack it out and dispose of it in the right place. Cat-holes work, but many are dug in the wrong place or because of the ground can't be dug. Some trails are now providing porta-potties,sadly some of these are not as clean as they should be. Ea.

Never had a Trailer. When we trailer the Ships boats the insurance of the vehicle towing covers the boats. Here in PA the trailer that the boats are on has to pass a yearly state inspection, I think it costs about $15.00. The boats and the trailers are owned by the non-profit corporation that was set up for the Ship. Part of my back yard and one shed looks like a boat yard. Best thing would be to have a chat with the CO about ownership (Who owns what.) And what insurance is needed if any? Along with who is going to pay for it. The CO or will the funds come from the Troop. I know this might seem silly, but most of the Troops who have Trailers never seem to carry a spare tire? Don't know why this is. Ea

le Voyageur When you take your "Wee Hike" to Scotland -Lose the rum. Scotland is well known for a much better beverage. Of course like anything else you drink. If you drink a lot you will really have a wee hike. Eamonn (Posted with tongue very much in cheek and a glass of Irish at hand.)

Thanks Beavah! That is just what I did mean. "Just because a leader takes ownership of a unit it does not indicate that they are an Eagle Mill. I don't see that there is anything wrong with doing so." When and where did it or does it say that a leader has ownership of a unit? Leaders are supposed to serve the unit and the youth in the unit. While some parents who are also leaders might want to claim ownership of their son or son's (I've tried giving my kid away but no one will take him!). We volunteers don't own any part of a unit. When we start looking or seeing Troops as belonging to us or belonging to someone all sorts of things get out of line. But in keeping with this thread. Then only person who really knows if they have earned their Eagle Scout Rank /Award is the recipient. We can fuss about advancement and BOR's, Scout Spirit and a lot of other stuff, but at the end of the day the person who receives an award is the person who knows what the award is worth to him. The Award is not a Unit or Troop Award, it doesn't belong to the leaders it belongs to the Scout who is supposed to have earned it. My son is an Eagle Scout. I'm proud of my son. I did my part as his father to help and support him along the way I like to think I raised him in a caring and loving environment. I hope that the example I gave him help to forge the values he now has. But I'm no more responsible for him being an Eagle Scout than I would be if he choose to get a gun and go out and shoot someone. He is my son, but the Eagle Scout award is his. Ea.

Many of these "Mills" are Troops where the adults: 1/ Don't understand what Scouting should be about. 2/ Have adults who don't have the outdoor skills needed. 3/ Have Adults who have little or no imagination. 4/ Start off with the best of intentions, but somehow get lost along the way. 5/ Many have leaders who use the Scouts to feed their own egos. Or leaders who cave in under pressure from parents who fail to understand what Scouting should be about. 6/ A n easy way to identify these leaders is by the way they talk about the Troop; it becomes "My Troop", "My Scouts", "Our Eagles". 7/ Many take great pride in the Eagle Count. In the District I serve we have one Troop which has on the back of their Troop caps and on the Troop trailer "Troop 160 where Eagles fly." 8/ Talk to a Scout from one of these Troops and he will tell you that other than MB's earned at summer camp, everything else was done in house. 9/ Attend a Troop COH and it's hard not to notice that each and every Scout gets the same MB's. 10/ Ask the SM to tie a bowline or set a map and a compass and there is a good chance he isn't able too. Ea.

I have always thought myself luck and given thanks that OJ was a boy. Friends of mine who have girls have had to suffer through dance recitals. I've lost count of the number of times when I had the bar open, that a Dad would load up before attending one of these things. Almost an entire day spent watching lots of little girls clod-hop around a stage, dresses in ridiculous dresses and costumes that cost an arm and a leg. I was never that wild about attending OJ's track meetings. It's kinda hard to get excited watching the shot! But my idea of hell would be spending eternity at a dance recital. -I'll take a PWD any-day! Ea.

Some years back one of my co-workers was a female nurse, a single parent. To be honest she was a real pain and I could see why the guy she had married had seen fit to head for the hills! Her son had received the Boy Talk at his school and was wanting to join. She was having no part of this! Her eldest son was an Eagle Scout and she talked very highly of Scouts and Scouting but she said she just didn't have the time to invest. She offered to buy her son a fish if he gave up on the idea of becoming a Cub Scout. I have friends who have kids and at th start of each new school year they sit the kids down and let them pick X number of after school activities that they will be involved with. It's all too easy to put these people down. Where we live there is a lot of activities that kids can be involved in. Back when I was a little fellow the choice was the local Boy's Club which was all about boxing or Scouts. Being as I never liked being hit, I opted for the Scouts. My older brother was a Scout and he ended up giving me the odd whack anyway! My parents were never in any way involved in my Scouting activities. I think if we'd had Pine-Wood Derbies in the UK Dad would have paid someone to make my car. - He was busy trying to "Do Well." Since HWMBO found out that she had cancer, I find myself doing less and less and the more I'm out of the groove, the less time I seem willing to spend on Scouting. I never used to miss a meeting, would drive a couple of hundred miles each way! Now I find myself looking out the window looking for reasons not to attend. I have been asked to take on several projects that a few years back I would have jumped at and loved to do. Now I can just say "No!" I'm happy that my son was a Scout. I'm grateful for all that he got from Scouts and Scouting. I never ever planned to get as deeply involved as I allowed myself to become. I really dislike the Baby sitting stuff. While it's great to have parents that are interested and involved, my feeling is that we are here for the kids and it's not their fault if they have parents like mine who for whatever reason decide that they don't want to be involved. Ea.

Moderator Feedback !! I deleted the other thread with the same name. Eamonn

I'll freely admit that I'm not sure which health care bill we looked like ending up with. I am sure that not doing anything serves no good. More and more it seems to me that the Republican agenda is one which is all about making government fail. Many Republicans seem to have fixed in their brain the idea that the market is always right and we all will be better off if government just butts out and we all allow the market to dictate what happens and what happens next. While I don't know about everyone else, I do know that the market hasn't served me that well. While I'm happy that a long last the Republicans do have something to cheer about (Lord knows they need it, as they haven't had anything for a very, very long time!) Anyone with a memory a little bigger than a gnat will remember the mess the last administration made of things. All this fuss about the guy trying to blow up a plane on Christmas day and the Republicans rush to blame the President? Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember that we had a Republican President when the 9/11 terrorist attack took place. The Republican record on Health care? Do we dare look back at the Medicare Modernization Act? Only One month after it was signed the ten-year cost estimate was boosted to $534 billion, up more than $100 billion over the figure presented by the Bush administration. By early 2005, the White House Budget had increased the 10-year estimate to $1.2 trillion. I bet my last dollar that there were a lot of back room deals and a lot of promises made by the drug companies to get a bill that prohibits the Federal government from negotiating discounts with drug companies. I wonder why Scott Brown was never seen campaigning with George Walker Bush? Could there be a reason? I wonder? Ea.

A few years back I took the LNT Instructor course. A great course and well worth doing. I took the course In Virginia. I think that all around Virginia we have a lot of Troops, Districts and Councils. So I was a little surprised to find I was the only active Scouter on the course. My hope is that one year when I have less on my plate, I'll go back and take the Master Course. It's easy for a couple of guys who decide to go off on a hike to not leave much of a trace. It's a lot harder when a Patrol of Scouts go off on a hike and not possible when the numbers get real big. When we look at "'Plan ahead and prepare" We need to think about what we are going to do. Car Camping does have a place in Scouting. In fact I believe it's the best way of introducing the kids we serve to the skills they need. The Council owned camp site which is by design a place for Scouts to learn how to camp, light fires, build pioneering projects, learn how to use a map and a compass. Is not something which I'd ever put down. Back when I was a SM of a very large Troop, I just didn't have the time to be able to spend with very small groups taking hikes in the back country. I made the time to teach them what they ought to do when they went as a small patrol. (About six Scouts.) We have one older Scouter who is a regular on ESBOR. He make a point at every ESBOR to ask each Scout if he knows The Outdoor Code? Very few do. The Outdoor Code is a great place to start when teaching Scouts how to behave in the outdoors. The participants on the course I took had a very low opinion of how scouts act in the outdoors. We have a very bad reputation which needs to be fixed. Eamonn.

"Scouting is one of the very few institutions in the world that is still trying to instil the core human values" Wow! That sounds wonderful! What does it mean? Ea.

More and more lately I find myself passing the buck. I work in a place where there are a lot of rules. Some, in fact most of these are enforced all the time. Some are just there until someone gets a bee in their bonnet and there are a few that until something goes wrong are kinda just let go. For my part, I know the rules, what they are and what they say. When I look at the rule I can and do see why it is there and while maybe the why isn't always clear, I can take it to the next step and see that it makes sense. My "Buck Passing" comes into play when I clamp down and enforce all the rules. The honest truth is that I'm doing this because I feel if we have a rule it should be followed, but at times rather than just saying "I'm doing this because it's the right thing to do and it's what I get paid for!" I blame my boss or "Management". Sure my bosses and the management do want all the rules to be followed. But when I pass the buck blaming them, nine times out of ten they haven't said a word. In the thread about the un-paid popcorn. I found myself thinking that if I was dealing with the families, I would be very tempted, to explain to the families that a good reason to pay up what was owed would be to get the Council Guys off my back. Even though in the thread Council was never mentioned. Is passing the buck: 1/ Just another way of getting the job done? And OK? 2/ Shows lack of real leadership? 3/ Plain out and out telling lies? 4/ A big character flaw? 5/ Something else? Eamonn 5/