Eamonn

I''m going to try and not get hung up on the Uniform method. I see all the methods as being important. But having said that I do see them as goals. Something we and the unit should work toward. Scouting Ideals. This entails a lot more than just saying a few words at the start of the meeting. The ideals define what a Scout should strive to be: trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent, mentally awake, morally straight, physically fit,and prepared. This method permeates everything Scouts do, defining acceptable behavior, challenging the Scout to do his best, and even to do better than his best. It is a good and worth while goal, but even the best Scouts and best Scouter''s are not going to manage to live up to it 100% of the time. Patrols: The Patrol is the basic unit of Scouting. It is a perfectly sized group of Scouts with a common purpose. When properly formed, the Patrol is more than a group; it''s a team and each member has a job to do. In a Patrol, the Scout first begins learning about citizenship, making decisions, and doing things for himself. He counts on the other members of his Patrol to do their part, just as they count on him to do his. Membership in a Patrol leads to opportunities for leadership, so this method is also important to other methods in this list. Everything in Scouting can and should be done using the Patrol method, and Patrols should be more than just a list of names. The group should be real, and it should have real things to do. Its leaders should be real leaders, with real authority. Of course there might be times and reasons why a Troop might not be able to have "Real Patrols" I''m thinking of newly formed units or units that have suffered from poor leadership and dwindling numbers. Outdoors: Doing things outdoors are what Scouting is all about. In the course of doing the things Scouts do, a boy cannot help but go into the outdoors. In fact, it''s impossible to properly conduct a Scouting program without going outdoors. As much as possible, and as often as possible, Scouts should get out of buildings. They should follow the dirt trails, camp in the woods, swim in the lake, and all of the other things boys have done for 100 years. A Scout program that doesn''t include going into the outdoors is not much of a program. It can''t be much fun either. Scouting is not school. We don''t learn things in Scouting by sitting in a classroom - we learn them by going out and doing them! Still there are times when going outdoors is not such a good idea and a few of us are not so happy being out when it''s darn cold!! Advancement: While I happen to think this is the most abused method.The advancement method is nearly as pervasive as the ideals of Scouting. Advancement gives the Scout things to do when they go outdoors, and it gives Patrols something to work together on. Advancement also contributes to a Scout''s personal growth, provides opportunities for leadership and adult associations, and a reason to go outside. Advancement in Scouting is specifically designed to present every boy with a big challenge, broken up into smaller and smaller challenges. A Scout learns to set goals, develop plans for meeting those goals, to motivate himself to do what needs to be done, to always try his best and keep trying, and even that his perception of what he can do is often wrong. The Scout learns about his personal abilities and limitations, and ways to overcome those limitations and take advantage of those abilities. Please note everything is about the Scout not the unit!! Personal Growth: Much of what we do in Scouting involves boys facing unfamiliar territory and learning to cope with it. This is what we call personal growth. Every Scout develops greater confidence through experience and advancement. He learns to have confidence in himself; to challenge himself, and to learn from his failures. Every step along the way, a Scout is faced with a challenge that has to be overcome. In the process, he learns to look at himself differently. He stops saying "I can''t" and begins to look for ways to say, "I can." As his confidence grows he looks for greater responsibilities and challenges. He learns to make real decisions.Each Scout will develop at his own pace and we need to understand this. Adult Association: From time immemorial youth have looked to adults for guidance. Sons look to parents for an example to live by. Students look to teachers for knowledge. In Scouting, this tradition continues. Adults provide the living example to Scouts of the ideals of Scouting. More importantly, adults provide the impetus for a Scout''s personal growth and self-confidence. Adults also provide the safety net that allows Scouting to work. Through guidance and support adults in Scouting create the environment the Scouts need to take advantage of these methods. The Scout learns to work with other adults and develops the skills needed to navigate the adult world. Some adults do a better job of this than others and the adults in many cases get better at this with experience. Leadership Development: Scouts learn to lead themselves. In Scouting, adults aren''t there to lead the youth. They are there to guide the youth through the process of leading themselves. This process begins in the Patrol where Scouts have their first opportunity to choose their own leaders. As the Scout''s experience grows, his opportunities for leadership increase. Leadership in Scouting includes making decisions and guiding the troop and Patrol, planning the program, and conducting meetings. Scouts learn to lead by leading, and they develop leadership skills by learning to follow their chosen leaders. Uniform: The uniform has always been an important part of being a Scout. In this day and age, many would have you believe that the uniform really isn''t all that important; that a Scout is as much a Scout in T-shirt and jeans as he is in khaki and green. That''s partly true, but the uniform is more than a set of clothes. It''s more than simply a place to display achievements. It is a symbol of the boy''s commitment to Scouting - his acceptance of Scouting''s ideals and willingness to live by them. Scouts who do not wear a uniform usually do not have a complete understanding of Scouting or the commitment they have been asked to make. Many Scouts will tell you that the uniform doesn''t look good, it doesn''t fit well, or it isn''t very good for outdoor activities. In some respects, this is true, but they are superficial concerns. Perhaps they don''t understand that the uniform is a symbol of their commitment and, not wearing the uniform is a sign that they lack that commitment. A new or young Scout might not have much say in the matter. He wears what his parents tell him to wear. When OJ moved from one Troop to another, the second SM informed us that the Troop only wore the Scout shirt!! This came from the SM not the Scouts. OJ did pick and choose when he would wear a full uniform. He wouldn''t be caught dead at an OA function without his full uniform and went so far as having me buy the woolen expensive uniform, because it looked better. Somehow the OA was able to light the fire that made him want to wear the full and correct uniform. The methods are all important. But they need to be seen as goals and worked toward. There will be times when everything seems to work and work well, but then there will be times when something just seems to be missing. We need to be aware of what is happening and ready to correct what is wrong rather than just giving up saying that it''s broken and can''t be fixed. Ea.

"How large is your "one hour" per week?" It''s a big as you allow it to become!! I really enjoy Scouting. I like Scouter''s and kids. I did allow myself to become a seven day a week Scouter. I allowed myself to get drawn into serving on all sorts of committees. Then after the meetings there was the parking lot meeting and then after the parking lot meeting there was the "Let''s go to the ... meeting" Driving to meeting two states away, spending nights at overpriced motels, attending breakfast meetings. Even as a Cub Scouter there was the Pack meeting, the Pack Committee Meeting, the Leaders meeting, the R/T meeting along with all the other "Special Meetings". I''m not sure where this "One Hour a week" thing comes from? I don''t think anyone actively involved with the youth members can get away with on sixty minutes a week. Sadly a lot of people do get very upset when you try knocking a few of the hats that they are wearing off. While they feel they are saving the day, the truth is that they aren''t!! They are slowly but surely either becoming stuck in a rut or they are burning out. When the time comes for them to go (And it does come to all of us for different reasons.) Trying to find a replacement for one hat is hard enough, but trying to fill several hats is almost impossible. Too much time spent Scouting is not a good thing. It can and does take it''s toll on your family and can harm your performance at work. We might not want to hear it but Scouting has been around for 100 years, it done very well before we came along and will survive long after we have gone. Our role should be that of stewards ensuring that it will survive after we have gone. While it''s all too easy to get caught up in what''s going on today we need to be looking for and training the people who will replace us, building units that have strong foundations and good traditions. One of the really hard things we all need to learn to do is by far learning the word "NO" Eamonn.

One reason why our DE''s never got involved was the time factor. We have a date when all the Schools in the Council have "Sigh-up Night", normally the second week in September. We are a small District, but even so we have 3 School Districts and ten eleven elementary schools. These Boy Talks work best when they are given a day or so ahead of the Sign-up Night. Some SM''s have gone into the Junior HS and done Boy Talks. Some Schools do have a assembly bring all the Boys together for this talk some ask that the presenters go from class room to class room. We never have had a problem having leaders from the packs sing up to go into the schools to do the talks. In fact at times we have had too many and in schools where there are several Packs drawing from one school, there have been heated exchanges!! Maybe I''m just being dense? But if the CO is inviting local youth to join in a youth program that they are offering, surely it''s up to a member of the organization to invite the kids to join. The DE is in most cases not a member of the CO and having him or her invite people to join a organization which he doesn''t belong too seems odd? While membership is a requirement for Quality District and Quality District is a goal for the District and the DE,I don''t agree that the DE knows enough about what is happening at the unit level to be able to provide the correct information. I have heard about DE''s who have gone into schools and promised the kids all sorts of activities, some of which Cub Scouts are not allowed to do or that no pack in the area has ever done!! When this happens the kids and their parents feel that they have been lied too and let down. The DE should of course provide the materials and the support needed to help the unit volunteers recruit, but being the recruiter? I don''t see that as being their job. We are after all an organization of volunteers. Eamonn.

Over the years I have noticed that in the Pack I was Cubmaster of and in other packs in our District, every so often a "Super Den" comes along. Back when OJ was a Wolf, I was CM we had a great group of Tigers. I''m not sure why? But for some reason things just seemed to mesh. It was a big Den, with 12 Tigers. It did go down to 10. But these Lads remained active all through Cub Scouting all of them crossed over into the Troop (A new Troop started by the CM who replaced me) and 7 of them remained in Scouting until they were over 16, 3 went on to become Eagle Scouts. The parents got really involved serving as Leaders and Committee Members in both the Pack and later the Troop. Of course I''d love to say this was due to my great leadership!! But that isn''t the case. I seen much the same thing happen in a Pack which had fallen on hard times. One Den emerged as being something special and remained close doing lots of activities and the they crossed over and were together for a long time as Boy Scouts. If only I knew what it was that made this work? I could maybe bottle it and fix the decline in membership! Ea.

If you do go with splitting the Dens? I think I''d try and do it ASAP. I''d have one meeting with all the parents, explain why the Den needs to be split. Ask for their input. (Even if you know what you think your going to do. -People like to think that they are involved in what''s going on!!) Maybe have a meeting with the Den Leaders before hand and have a proposed list of who is going where? But be willing to make changes. The Dens don''t have to be exactly the same size. If 3 or 4 families carpool for Den meetings you might not want to split them. Do you know where and when the Dens will meet? You might want to invite your Unit Commissioner to tag along. UC''s like to feel needed!! This might be a great opportunity for identifying people who could be selected to serve the pack in some way!! It might be nice to have this meeting with the Scouts being present but that might not be practical. But having someone do an activity with the Scouts while someone talks to the parents would be a good idea. You know what you want to do!! Just remain flexible about how you get there. Lay out the problem and the idea of how to fix it. Sit back and listen to the parents. How you get there isn''t as important as the fact that you do get there. Good Luck! Eamonn.

Barry, Maybe the real answer to this question is found in the Scout Law? If we really do mean that A Scout is ...trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly,courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. We the adults need to offer the Scout every opportunity to live up to it. Will he get it right all the time? Of course not!! Back in May of this year I spent a month at the PA Department of Corrections Training Academy. The instructors there spend a lot of time talking about the: Care, Custody and Control of inmates. Sadly it seems some leaders seem to work along very much the same lines. Of course one of the things a convicted criminal has lost is trust. While of course we care about and for the Scouts in our charge and while custody is open to interpretation, it does seem that some adults have a need to be in control at all times. The highlight of my day at times is when a Scout turns around to me and says "It''s OK Skip, we can do this we don''t need you!! The highpoint in his or her day is when I say "That''s great. Call me if you need me." Scouting for me is all about relationships. I like to think the Scouts know that I really do care for them. I really do take my responsibility for their well being and safety to heart. This runs through just about everything we do. A Scout who comes on top without a PFD, knows he should have one on. He knows because he or she was taught that we always wear them and is given reasons why. Someone will normally issue a kindly reminder. In fact I''ll wait for someone other than me to issue it!! The situation is a quick fix and is not a hanging offense!! Sure at times a Scout will complain that the water isn''t very deep and he feels that the PFD is not needed, but so far no one has ever decided not to wear one. Of course the adults set a good example by always wearing one. There have been times when things have really not gone as they were supposed too. This has at times led to a lot of frustration and even name calling. It was all to easy to pass the buck and blame someone. Right now we have a good QD (PLC) They are starting to see and understand that while some Scouts can take on an assignment, run with it and deliver the goods, others need to reminded, prompted and at times given a friendly push. My part in this is easy!! I ask the Boatswain how is such and such coming along ? If he tells me "Great" Thats fine. If he seems unsure or tells me that it''s not! I ask him what is he doing about it? If he is not sure what to do, I''ll offer my two cents. There are times when he will ask me to jump in. While because he has asked, there is no way I''m going to leave him hanging out there to dry, I do offer to work with him and alongside him, hopefully passing on and training him in what has to be or what should be done. I wish I could say that this always works! It doesn''t. The Scouts know I''m not perfect, they are very forgiving and most times we end up seeing the funny side of it, while maybe learning enough to ensure we get it right next time. In a lot of ways being the Skipper of a Sea Scout Ship is very much like being a District Chairman. Both the Ship and the District set their own goals. In the Ship we have youth leaders who take on assignments that will help the Ship reach these goals. In the District adults from different committees do much the same thing. My role in both positions was/is seeing how things are coming along and supporting the people who are doing the work. It seems that we spend a lot of time talking about Training. While of course formal training''s are good and worth while, but most of training is very informal on the job type training. Be it training the new district marketing person about the best time to call the local newspaper or training a Crew Leader about cleaning up as you go when cooking a meal. The really hard part is not getting the work done, the hard part is having them come up with goals (A vision??) that they will buy into and be willing to work toward. Eamonn.

I''m not going to lose any sleep over this. Ea.

One of the big problems I''m having with the Ship is getting them to understand that it is their program. OK, I tell them that it''s their Ship. Nearly all the boys who have been Boy Scouts have never had the opportunity to really voice their opinion, let alone have someone listen and allow them to plan and follow through. I must be a little slow!! It took me a very long time to understand what a PLC is really all about and how it should work. For a while I was happy to use the PLC like a messenger service. Sure we had meetings but they sat down and heard from me what we were going to do and their job was to relay the information. This of course was not right!! Then I tried being the Coach. This was needed for a while, but I wasn''t ever ready to let them make their own game plan. As I have posted before I have a giant ego!! I was so happy when "My" Scouts had more badges than the Scouts from other Troops. I was so happy when "My" Troop won most of the District Competitions. I really wasn''t serving the Troop as much as using it to feed my ego. If someone is really bored they can go back and count the number of times I have posted "Train Them, Trust Them And Let Them Lead." There are other threads running at this time asking about the role of the Scoutmaster? His main job is to train the members of the PLC. (We train leaders in leadership at WB, in order that they understand what leadership is and how it works) Youth led is ongoing and ever changing. No two Scouts are the same and each Scout brings new ideas and new skills to the unit along with maybe some not so good baggage!! I''m happy to stand back and let the Ship''s Quarterdeck plan just about anything that they want to do. They know that they have my support. They also know that there are some things that I''m happy for them to do, but they might need to find another adult to go with them. Over the years I have kinda got used to seeing things maybe not working out as they should. I''m OK with that as long as we learn something from it. When something isn''t going right, I''m happy to sit down with whoever is in charge and help them look at their options. I see this as part of "Train Them" When we are done I''m big on reflections, we use the reflection process at the end of end QD meeting. I''m painfully aware that I have a big mouth!! While "Feedback is a gift" At times I forget about the "Back" bit and want to do the feeding!! I find doodling helps me keep quite!! Not to change the subject. - But.... I find it''s very strange the number of Scouter''s who seem to think that I''m some kind of anti-establishment rebel for allowing the Scouts to make real plans, handle real responsibilities. Needless to say that giant ego kicks in and I think I''m right and they are wrong. This youth led thing can take a long time to develop and just when you think you have it down pat! It''s time to start over and look at who you are working for and the bad habits that you have developed and hadn''t noticed. One more thing! I do think it''s very important that the Scouts know who the leader of the adults is. There can only be one leader. Any more than one clouds and confuses everyone. Eamonn.

Troop Merit badge Coordinator? When did merit badges become part of the Troop program? Surely the way things are set up a Troop Merit badge Coordinator is not only unnecessary, but in my view goes against how merit badges are supposed to work. " He came back with a partial for one requirement. This week I got an essay for the requirement that was clearly a school assignment. It doesn''''t really fit the requirement anyway, so in this case I think it will be an easy call for the Scoutmaster to tell him that he needs to meet the requirement with new work (I''''m so glad that I am the receiver of materials but not the decision-maker or enforcer)." This should have nothing to do with anyone other than the Merit Badge Counselor. So unless you are the Scoutmaster are the counselor for this badge? You both have no say in what happens. If someone thinks a Counselor is being a little too easy or is adding requirements, they need to contact the District Advancement Committee as this is the Committee that appoints counselors. Many District Advancement Committees have allowed teachers to become MB Counselors. But if the teacher isn''t on the approved list, he or she isn''t a counselor and the badge should not be approved. Scouts should only be allowed to go to counselors who are on the list. So if an approved counselor is happy to accept school work that meets the requirements it is his or her call and other than going to another approved counselor, there is nothing that can be done. This list should be available from the Dean of Merit Badges or the District Advancement Chair. Eamonn.

Balding Eagle As I see it you are between a rock and a hard place!! The good people who write the books work on the idea that once we get a kid in to the program, he is going to stay. While I''m sure the program that the pack you serve offers a wonderful program! Still it seems that no matter what sometime during the life time of a Bear, something comes along that draws a few of the little Lads away. Sad as this is, take my word for it -It''s true. You might want to look back over the Pack records and see what the "Fall out rate" Is? I think a Den of more than 12 is unmanageable. If you are looking at a Den of 17 - Thats a small Pack!! But if the records show that historically half the Scouts leave as Bears, having two Dens with only 4 in each Den might be silly. I do think I''d go for the split, but where possible I''d try and keep the two Dens and the Leaders working closely together so if the time comes that you need to reunite them, it''s not a big problem. I don''t think a Den of 12 and a Den of 5 is such a great idea, of course if the records show that all the kids stay you might want to look at 3 Dens of 6!! Ea.

"Get your DE involved in doing a boy talk at the school " This is something I never heard of!! In our area the local leaders do the "Boy Talks" While maybe a DE might know a little about Cub Scouting, He or She doesn''t know enough about the unit or the leaders to be able to do a good job. For new units or units with new leaders we pair them up with a member of the Membership Committee. The DE does his bit by contacting the School and providing handouts, but I have never seen or heard of them doing the presentation. Does your DE get this involved? (Of course as of right now we don''t have a DE so it''s a mute point with us!!) Ea.

OGE, You told me about this last year and being the air-head that I am, I didn''t make a note. Unfortunately Her Who Must Be Obeyed has a dinner party planned for this weekend. Man-oh-man, would I have a great time. I''d dearly love to visit the Living History Area -Newgrange Caves were my play ground when I was a little fellow spending the summers with my Grandparents. The river Boyne flowed through part of the farm and the Battle of the Boyne was fought just down the road. OJ is named after Saint Oliver Plunkett (OK Oliver was my Dad''s name and is my middle name!!)Saint Oliver was born in County Meath. As we all know over the centuries the English were not very kind to the Irish. Oliver Plunkett was put on trial, and with the help of perjured witnesses, was sentenced to be hanged, drawn and quartered at Tyburn. It''s a good job the Irish have a great sense of humor!! Next year I''ll invite the Ship to come up with me, but then again - Maybe not!! While I''m no Ronan Tynan I do like to sing. I''m sure I''d have a blast!! I see that the Haggis eating contest was full! What a shame nothing like a good sheep''s stomach filled with oats to get the weekend off to a good start!! Eamonn.

I personally don''t like phones. When it rings at home I try my darnest to let someone else answer it. HWMBO and OJ are always on at me for not turning on the cell phone in my car. The Scouts in the Ship know that email is best way to contact me. Before we go away for a Scouting activity, I do ensure that the phone is charged and in good working order. Kids Sea Scout age (14 +) seem far more accepting of cell phones than I am. In fact many are like OJ and wouldn''t dream of going anywhere without their cell!! One female Scout did manage to get on my last nerve, when she talked to her boyfriend for over 3 hours on a trip. This did lead me to request that they only make calls when we stop and keep incoming calls to a few minutes. Or take a message and call back. To-date this has worked well and we don''t have any problems. Everyone knows that the Ship and the adult leaders accept no responsibility for Scouts property. There is no way I''m going back anyplace to look for a lost phone. While I have never set a rule about it the Scouts seem happy to not take their phones and i-pods with them when we go on the water, I think because they are worried we might end up in the water!! And they don''t want to risk it. We do of course have radios in the boats. As for the i-pods I''m happy to have them play their music in the vehicle either through the system in the car or through their ear-phones. At standing camps (Car camping) I bring a small radio, which is rarely turned off. It lives in the adult kitchen area and the volume is kept under control. Yes at times the adults break out into silliness!! Funny dances, silly songs even me singing opera!! At night I like to listen to the BBC World Service (I enjoy the news and the magazine programs.) For long trips I have my laptop in the car and will throw in a handful of DVD''s that are age appropriate. I really do think that youth members are far more considerate when it comes to using cell phones than adults are. Maybe because they know how to use them a little bit better? I''m not sure what is the right age for a kid to have a cell phone? OJ got his when he was 14. (From me.) When a parent decides that the time is right, is fine with me. After all it''s their child. Adding more and more rules and regulations is a long way from what we should be doing. We have the Scout Oath and Law, we talk about giving our youth members the opportunity to make ethical choices. Surely there is more to this than choosing to break or not break a rule? Ea.

OldGreyEagle Most times you do manage to hit the nail on the head. But WOW!! What you posted in this thread is just outstanding. I really agree with you. Next time I''m in your neck of the woods I''ll make sure that Prohibition is really dead- Heck I''ll even let you buy!! Eamonn.

So far -Remembering that the Ship is a little less than 3 years old. The Scouts have been good about raising money for the Ship. Maybe this is because they see that we had nothing to start with? Coming up with a budget that works is becoming easier. Strange as it may sound, because we are not actively following up boat donations!! Everyone seems to know that $5.00 a month doesn''t go very far! In fact it barely covers the day to day operating expenses of the Ship. Sea Scouting is a wonderful program, but it is very expensive. The true cost of the program is a little over $300.00 a year per Scout. (Based on 25 Scouts) This of course doesn''t include or cover activity fees, food, travel and that sort of thing. The QD did work on the budget. They know the costs involved. I offered them different ways of coming up with the money. The idea I wanted them to adopt; which they opted not to!! Was the "Magic Number" The idea being that everyone starts owing $300.00. How they cover the $300.00 is up to them. They can hand over the money. They can fund raise the money. Or they can do a little of both. As long as the Ship got the $300.00 -I was happy!! As I say they didn''t go for this and are happy deciding where the money from each fund raising event will go before the event. As a group they don''t mind working, be it selling hoagies on the street or washing cars. But they and their parents are not into the "Pre-sale". We can sell 600 hoagies of which maybe only 50 are sold to family and friends. They decided not to sell popcorn, because they didn''t think they could and some of them have little brothers in packs and troops who are selling it. While there is a lot to be said for "A Scout pays his or her way" - Still things get a little cloudy in my book when Mum or Dad are doing the selling. I really don''t think the Scout learns anything more from this than OJ did by working for me and earning "Half" the money and me writing a check. Of course a lot depends on how the unit is raising the money. Eamonn.

Please don''t take this the wrong way!! I really do not intend any disrespect to anyone!! Back when I was young. Before I got married (At age 26!!) I was very much a night owl. I really did burn the candle from both ends. I don''t think I was ever in bed before 3:00 AM and never missed work, normally starting sometime between seven and eight. If there wasn''t a Scouting function on over the weekend, I was happy to stay in bed till noon. Pete our Troop quartermaster used to give me a hard time. Telling me that I had wasted the best part of the weekend. He was one of them people who got up at 6:30 AM each and everyday. He seemed to think that there was something virtuous about not staying in bed. (I don''t know what he found to do at 6:30 AM on a Sunday ??) While I loved him like a brother and knew his teasing was good natured, there were times when I felt he was being a sanctimonious old poop!! Many people who don''t watch TV, seem to a little like Pete. At times I feel they are looking down their nose at those who do and I can''t help feeling that they somehow see not watching TV as having some sort of virtue. Of course too much of anything is too much and isn''t good for you. Still I enjoy TV. I don''t allow it to rule my life. But a night at home with HWMBO, the dogs, a plate of cheese and an adult beverage is a nice night. I still miss West Wing! I have been watching Ken Burns, The War, on PBS. It''s kinda strange looking at WWII from an American point of view and I can''t help wondering how different it would be if someone like Richard Dimbleby had made it for the BBC? While of course I was too young to have seen Dimbleby''s spoof documentary about spaghetti crops in Switzerland, http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6240000/newsid_6248600/6248636.stm?bw=nb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=2 But it does prove that TV can be fun. Eamonn.

I have yet to read the article in Scouting magazine. So far I have yet to see anything in the new fall line-up that I''d stay home not to miss. But I don''t think I''d be happy with no TV!! Could you give up TV? Could your family? What would you replace it with? (All that extra time!!) Eamonn.

The few days off must have coddled my brain!! Please let me know if I have this right. Dues are $100.00 a year? (About $2.00 a week. That doesn''t seem out of line. Depending on what you get for your $2.00!) If you sell $400.00 worth of Popcorn? You don''t have to pay the $100.00? That sounds fair!! The bit that doesn''t seem to make sense is the $750.00. Take away the $400.00 for dues. ($350.00) So I''m guessing this Spring Trip has a price tag of about $100.00. Must be one heck of a trip! As we all know there is no such thing as a free lunch. The money needed to operate and offer a worthwhile program does have to come from somewhere. To be honest I as a parent didn''t like sales. Mainly because as OJ got older it seemed everyone was selling something (High Schools seem to have at least five sales going on at all times!!) I''d much sooner work with OJ and write the check (He owed the Bank Of Dad half -Which he had to find a way of coming up with, sometimes working for Dads Employment Agency, sometimes using free money from Birthdays and the like.) The Quarterdeck of the Ship came up with $5.00 a month dues. This pays for the Registration fees, patches and that sort of stuff. We do have hoagie sales. We get a permit from the borough and a few times a year sell them on the street. The Quarterdeck decides what happens to the money we make on a case by case basis. Some of it is used to repair boats, some is used to offset the cost of activities by having the money placed in the Scouts accounts. Big amounts and donations are placed in the Ship''s Account to help pay for new equipment and for emergencies, with the approval of the Quarterdeck. (They as a rule will follow my lead!) What did I get wrong?? Eamonn (The QD choose not to sell popcorn!!)

Hi and Welcome. "So is it acceptable to use a camper as an alternate?" I can''t see why not. As far as the LNT? You might be asked to place it somewhere off site. (Maybe the parking lot?) This might in some way lead to you and your son not feeling that they are part of the group? But it''d better than you both staying home and not being part of the group!! (Some camp sites have cabins that you might want to ask about.) Have to admit to having never been in a small Popup!! For the Jamboree I bought a cot from Alpine and it was almost like sleeping at home! For weekends and hikes I use a Thermorest pad. Having had half a dozen back surgery''s, I do know about bad backs!! Sleeping on a hard surface isn''t bad, but you need to avoid the cold (At least I do!!) Buy a really good quality bag and use a liner, that along with a good pad and you should feel as right as rain when you get up. -Well almost!! I think you will find that when the time comes for "Big Boy Camping ??" That a pad beats the heck out of a cot. -The cold air under the cot is not good for bad backs. But do you ever have any cold weather in your neck of the woods? Eamonn.

As a group most if not nearly all the people I know who volunteer their time for Scouting are nice people. I have never and hope I never give into the idea that one volunteer "Out Ranks" any other volunteer. Maybe I can wear a uniform full of knots, beads and dingle-dangles? But that in no way makes me or my time any more valuable than anyone else''s. Over the years I have wandered around a lot of different Scouting functions, I have seen a lot. Some things have impressed the heck out of me, some things have left me asking myself "What the heck are they trying to do?" Some people in my view seem to understand and embrace this program and again in my view end up delivering a program that the Scouts really seem to enjoy and get a lot out of. While others seem to be way off base and miss the mark completely. Rarely if ever do I unless asked point out what I see to be the error of their ways. Sure there are times when I shake my head and maybe raise my eyebrows. I have at times broken the rules and I feel bad about it; mainly because I know that I knew the rule I was breaking. - I can''t even plead ignorance!! Very often someone in the forum will ask a specific question. Too which there is only one right answer. Some things are found in BSA publications and are down in black and white. Some kind person will normally provide the "Book Answer". Then five people will post why they think this should be changed or give reasons why they disagree with the "Book Answer". At times, more so in the past exchanges do become heated. While I have to admit that my friends and myself have yet to ever talk about Transgendered Scouts, we do at times talk about some of the topics that pop up here from time to time. A few of my friends do hold very strong opinions about some of this stuff and have been known to let me know how the really feel, using terms and language that could never be used here. A friend of mine is a moderator in another active Scouting on line forum. It seems to me that that forum doesn''t allow the same degree of self-expression that we enjoy here. Anyone who has been around the forum for a little while can almost after reading the first posting in a new thread guess what is coming next and who is going to post it. As a forum member I know or get a feeling for who I''m going to agree with or disagree with and whose advise I will disregard or value. When I offer my two cents, I don''t follow up or see if what I posted was of any help or even followed. To be very honest many of the threads (Especially the ones on uniforming) have become really old. I don''t think other than on points of what goes where that anything posted here is going to make me not wear the correct uniform and the postings here are not going to make anyone rush out to buy whatever part of the uniform they don''t wear. I''m not going to change my view on cell phones and I''m almost certain that the people who disagree with me will continue to do so. At the end of the day there are very few people who post here that I wouldn''t enjoy meeting over a drink or at some Scouting function. Of course there are times when I know someone has hit a raw nerve or I have posted when I should have gone to bed with a couple of extra strength Tylenol!! Eamonn.

While of course Beavah is right. My point was/is kinda along the lines that you do one thing at a time. Learning to cook is wonderful. But many of these young Lads may not have ever cooked an egg before joining the Troop. I kinda think if I was a 12 year old going on the water for my first big canoe trip, my focus would be on learning how to canoe. Sure practice makes perfect and I''m not a great lover of reheated dishes -Not to mention the danger that they impose. I''d keep it simple and as they get better at cooking and more used to the equipment kick it up a notch. Eamonn.

Strange how this thread managed to work its way to being about uniform??? Sea Scouts are allowed to wear the Working Uniform (Chambray Shirt and dark blue pants)That the US Navy uses and the white pants and white jumper that the Navy uses. Some Ships do wear the blue jumpers and pants, they are asked to remove one of the set of three piping (The white stripes) leaving only two. While the "Whites" are the "Official" Sea Scout uniform, being as Sea Scouts are part of Venturing it kinda, sorta is up to the Ship. One requirement does require the Scout to obtain a uniform. As you can imagine this is open to interpretation and has been debated a lot in Sea Scout circles. But to get back on track. Maybe I''m just being a little nosy? When you say " One of the suggested themes was inappropriate for Scouting." What theme are you talking about? When OJ was at Catholic grade school they didn''t have a Halloween party in its place they had a party for All Saints Day. While this did keep the school happy, it wasn''t such a big hit with the kids. Of course a Cub Scout Halloween party isn''t the MTV Awards, still I really don''t feel that allowing a band of happy little Lads to dress up as little devil''s is really to impact their future growth. It''s a good time to let your hair down and join the kids in having some fun. Eamonn.

I seem to remember reading somewhere some guidelines on what is and what isn''t acceptable for OA functions. Maybe some of the more active OA forum members could fill in the details? Some years back a good friend of mine said he''d donate $100.00 to FOS if I wore a tutu and a wig in our towns Halloween Parade. - We got the money!! You might want to check with your CO to see if they have any feelings about what is and what isn''t appropriate. Ea.

" suspect that some of what the BSA includes (or needs to add) in its leader training nowadays is really all about how to work in groups, as much as it is about specific program issues." I sorta think this is what the 21st Century Wood Badge is trying to do. I know this is going to come off sounding a little daffy!! But at times I wonder if having too many involved parents is a bad thing? Looking back at myself. My parents were never actively involved in my Scouting "Career" they were happy to help me pay my way and offer financial support to the Troop. Our Scoutmaster (Scout Leader in the UK) had a Leadership Team of about six ASM''s. Two never missed a meeting some were experts in something or another and would attend when they could or when they were needed. This was the model I used when I was SM. To be very honest I never liked the idea of baby sitting parents and somehow had this feeling that the time the Lads spent Scouting was time away from home and their parents. I somehow felt that I got to know the Lad a little better when his Dad wasn''t hovering in the background. Thinking about it, when I was Scout, none of the leaders were married or had any children! Later my old SM did marry a ACM. During the 11 years I was a SM back home, our "Leadership Team" were all the best of pals. We knew each other very well, we met for a drink after meetings (That is allowed in the UK) Our weekly meeting of the adults was over a pint on Sunday after church. Pete, our QM did have two sons in the Troop, but the rest of us were single, footloose and fancy free!! While we did serve the Scouts and I like to think we had a first class program!! We also had a lot of fun and really enjoyed spending time together. Eamonn.

I''m sorry MomToEli, but it sounds to me as if you are coming off sounding like you are the judge and jury. We have had a number of adults who have received DUI''s, they have not tried to hide the fact and make mention of it on the Adult Leader Application. In most cases both the CO and the BSA seem OK to allow them to serve as leaders. Carrying drug paraphernalia is a crime. If someone is guilty of having it on them they can be arrested and the courts take it from there. Being married to a person involved in law enforcement I''m sure you are aware of this.. Still I have a hard time with the idea of banning a child''s parent from participating in their child''s activities just because of past deeds. Maybe Little Timmy''s parents are "Pot Heads" (Or whatever drug they have used) But and it''s a big but!! We do not have any right to prevent them from participating until such a time as they are caught doing it at a Scout function or we are informed by the CO or the SE that they are not allowed to participate. If you really do think that allowing these people to attend Scouting functions does pose some sort of threat or danger to the youth you need to talk to the right people. Taking on this as your mission and trying to handle it yourself could damage the good name of the CO and the BSA. The best thing to do is let the people who are responsible for this do their job. By all means make them aware of how you feel, but once you have done that the matter is out of your hands. If you find out that a later date they are a danger to the youth report it again. If you see them with drug paraphernalia or with drugs call the police and then report this to the CO and the SE. If indeed their drug use is a matter of public record, there is no need for you to go around telling the other parents. If they (The other parents) are uncomfortable with having this boy in the Den /Pack, they are of course free to look for and go to another Pack. Any sort of discrimination against a Scout due to his parents past is just wrong. We are here to serve the youth, reaching out to kids who maybe don''t come from the "Nice and Best Families" is what we do. Not allowing his parents to participate is just wrong until such a time as they do something wrong and you are informed not to allow them to participate. Eamonn