Eagledad

So, how doe's tying knots and lashings build character? Barry

Sunny Skies all >>I am in a bit of a quandry over this issue.

>>Yah, just to be clear, I haven't posted anything on this thread yet, eh?

>>For the most part I'd agree with Beavah's list of pros and cons, except for the bit about longevity.

>>Yeah Webelos is broken, just look at how many scouts drop-out during the Web years. The excitement is elsewhere.

>>Is this typical at many camps? Just curious to know whether I ought to be concerned or not, what do you think?

Great day all Aw to be your son. Getting backpacking equipment was always wonderful experience for me. My dad wasnt all that active with my scouting, but I we spent a lot of time together finding gear for my first backpacking campout in Colorado. I suggest external frame packs for the younger scouts. As John said, your son is going to be growing and external frames adjust easier to growing scouts. They are also easier to pack, unpack and adjust on the trail if needed. They can take a lot of punishment and are little cooler to wear in the summer. New scouts like to just throw things in here and there, so they external is great for that. Plus it is much easier to find a piece of gear in one of the many compartments of an external frame backpack in the dark tent. Internals require patience looking for anything. The external backpack will teach your son how to pack for when he is ready to get and internal. Then there is the cost difference too. External packs look uncomfortable compared to the external, but they are fine. There are several good brands. Jansport and Kelty have good beginner packs for less than $100. Lisabob is right to check for used gear. Ask if your troop has any to borrow or for sale. We had several. If you find an old pack somewhere, make sure it has a good hip belt. The hip belt is the most important part of the pack suspension system because it will carry 85% of the weight. If it looks cheap, skip the pack. John is right about good boots, but not too good of a boot. I have two sons who out grew a pair of boots every year until they were seventeen. What you need for growing scouts are boots that will hold up to a teenage boy for a couple years. But it is hard to know what is good and what isnt. So here is a good test. Grab the sole of the boot you are looking at and try to twist the boot. If the boot has little or no twist, then it will likely work fine. Leather works better, but there are some good no leather boots out there. Wallmart has some decent boots for the job. No steel toes. They get cold in the winter. Your son needs to walk in those boots as much as he can before the first hike. If not, blisters are likely. Socks are where I wouldnt cut cost. Typically backpackers wear two pairs of socks. Liners and main socks. The thin liners repel moisture which is the main cause of blisters and cold feet, and they allow the main sock to slide enough to prevent less friction which is also the cause of blisters. Technology is getting good enough where you dont have to wear liners to repel the moisture, but I still like them and asked my parents to get them for their sons. If the feet get very wet, which is common in backpacking, great socks will protect the feet where good boots wont. Check the material of the socks and make sure they dont have any cotton. That is why they will be a little more expensive, but cotton absorbs moisture. Expect to spend $6 to $10 for good reasonably priced hiking socks and liners. Try on the boots with the socks because they can fill up a boot pretty quick. There are some good sales right now if you mail order. Do a search for different stores, Campmor and REI are good starts. Those are couple suggestions, I know others will step in as well because backpacking is a lot of fun. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Beautiful Weekend All >>Contacting Barry off-line in hopes of stemming further problems. BW>Thank you gentlemen.

Great Camping All >>I usually have a raft of questions I have stored away so as to keep the conversation going and the boy taking. Otherwise it is designed more for the boy's reflection rather than information gathering on my part.

Beautiful Saturday All This really sounds great Gwd. I always look forward to your post. I would like to throw out one thing. I think our culture today is struggling with personal one to one communication with each other. We dont seem to know our neighbors as well and our youth mainly stay in touch through all the latest in technology gadgets. Because one of our Aims is citizenship, I look at Scouting for Food and other opportunities for scouts to personally meet the folks in the community. Not only that, in a time when Scouting needs to put its best face forward, the community needs to meet and talk to these young folks while in the practice of citizenship. This is who we really are and it is the face our community needs to see when they think of boys scouts. However you can and want to do this, figure out a way that your scouts and your church community, and even the surrounding community can meet each other in community service. When a parent comes to me and ask if I would by popcorn for their sons unit, I cant give quick enough. But I also tell them I would sure enjoy meeting their son personally. I know it is a pain to the scouts, but maybe they just need a little prompting of the value of personal communication with their community. Give the community a chance to actually shake their hand and say thanks. And if I could have just a couple seconds to brag about being a scout once myself in Bethany Oklahoma, it would make my day as well. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Your answering for me isn't going to work.

Happpy Friday aall Sorry about the accidental unfinished post, fat fingers? Lets try it again. >> Barry, I have no idea how you come up with your conclusions about what Bob posted. He never said he was developing the Venture Crew to take ALL the 14 y/o and older Scouts. Please tell me how YOU arrived at that conclusion.

>> Barry, I have no idea how you come up with your conclusions about what Bob posted. He never said he was developing the Venture Crew to take ALL the 14 y/o and older Scouts. Please tell me how YOU arrived at that conclusion.

>> No Barry, we can't let it go there,

Great Scouting All >>Barry, Can you honestly say that a troop of 150 is not heavily adult run?

>>Nice post derf56 Barry

>>Shame on you Barry! Why don't you buy something American made, such as a Toyota, Honda, or Subaru?

So John, I take that as a no on the corvette. Barry

Yes I understand, but ideally what you are attempting to do is end your Troop program at age 14. And really it isnt 14, it is 13 because 14 is the age the scouts can join the Crew. You cant imagine my amazement with this suggestion. Even if an older scouts goal is to stay and practice leading, managing, planning, guiding, coaching and teaching scouts, your program really isnt conducive to it because in your mind, your oldest scouts are 13. And you keep referring to the Eagle as if that is scoutings primary purpose to exist. I have so many questions. And I cant put down the words that show my amazement (shock) to what you propose. Please you don't need to defend yourself Bob, we can let this go here. Barry

Another Happy Cold Oklahoma Scouting Day All >>Before a troop grew to that size I would help organize a Venture Crew and train an Advisor, and we would graduate older scouts to the Crew to continue working toward Eagle if that was their goal, or follow special activity interests.

>>If you don't know where your Webelos are coming from before the cross over you =have a communications problem not a unit size problem.

>> I have never gotten a call with 25 new scouts at one time. Normally what would happen is a month or more before the crossover webelos Dens would vist the troop.>I would simply explain to the other Webolos and parents that due to space and resources we find it necessary to limit the trop size, and we would be happy to recommend other are troops for them to consider joining.

>> I know to what Beavah is referring... its the underlying attitude in some posters responses that the person is wrong or should be ashamed, or should leave scouting or his/her current leadership position.

>> When I give a SM Confrence, i make notes in the margins and blank spaces of the boys book. This give him a place to reflect on the goals we've set for him and gives him some idea of what his SM looks for in a member of the troop.

>>I feel it becomes the responsibility of a trained and knowledge adult in the unit to explain the pitfalls of such a large membership to the IH, CR and CC of the troop. And to guide them to a more productive number.