Eagledad

I don't know why they would have watered the program back down except they found that Bear leaders weren't crossing over to Webelos because they didn't want to do that outdoor part of the program. Cooking and sleeping in the heat or cold doesn't appeal to a lot of adults. We saw this problem at the council level. Units were forced to find new Webelos leaders and those leaders tended to lack the enthusiasm for planning and leading a fun program. Most of them only did minimal training. We tried several approaches including asking troops to help with the Dens. But, that was an extra responsibilit

Personally I don' think graduating early or late makes much difference. Our data shows that Webelos in a fun program will join a troop whenever their crossover comes. Scouts who are in a boring den with a burned out leader are likely to quit after webelos no matter what. Webelos pretty much know what they are going to do by the Fall of their last year. As I said, nationally less than 50 percent of Webelos IIs actively join a troop. That high rate is the result of a demanding 5 year program on the adults. A little more perspective is that in most cases, scouts go where their parents

I approached expectations and maturity by teaching the scout to set his own goals. I started by teaching his first skill, maybe the square knot. After he mastered the knot, I asked him if he would like to learn more? Which knots? And set a goal to when. It's easy with something like the knots because he can pick any knot and learn it immediately. But, as the scouts works toward higher level skills that take more time, I encouraged him to set a date and write in his book. There is no penalty for not meeting the date, it's not a test, I'm just getting him in the habit of setting goals, no matter

I'm not sure what to think about this. I'm up for discussion, but I believe 95% percent of scouters couldn't even quote the Aims (character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness). or Methods (ideals, Patrols, Outdoor Programs, Advancement, Association with Adults, Personal growth, Leadership Development and Uniform). .And, those who can quote the Aims and Methods generally believe that the adults are responsible for both the Aims and Methods. I don't think knowing the Aims and Methods is the problem. I personally believe that not knowing how to use Aims and Methods is

This discussion is the cart before the horse. What is the purpose of scouting? What is the purpose of the activities? I learned as I gained experience to measure if each activities was providing a positive growth opportunity for the scout. Mostly character, but other growth as well. By measuring each activity, I was forcing myself to understand the goals of the program, as well as insure the activities were presented in a manor that would produce growth. If the adults don't know where they are going, how do they know if they are doing it wrong? HOWEVER, scouting is game with a purpose and

I don’t think so. I’ve had to balance many of your posts over the years because you present micro analogies. You basically take local data, which is a sliver of the overall picture and present a confident analogy as the overall big picture. It’s not. General references can only be interpreted as reflections of personal biases at best. That’s ok if the author starts their opinion with “In humble opinion” ………… . But, when the analysis is intended to sway general opinion, we’ll, you know. Barry

This must be local or recent. When I was tracking crossovers 20 years ago, an average of 50% of Webelos crossed over to troops in our council. National average at the time was slightly less than 50%. We did not track AOL because that wasn’t important for us. I can’t remember the average for 1st year scouts dropping out, BUT, 1st year dropouts has been the highest dropout rate of all BSA ages since National has been tracking that data. At least since the 60s. Barry

I think it’s a cultural thing. I worked a lot with the 14 to 22 year olds and gained so much respect from them, as well as pleasure with the experience. They are the noble product of patrol method and have so much to give back. But, our culture expects them to go out into the world and get educated and find their place in the community. Like some here, many at National and others outside looking in see scouting as nothing more than an after school babysitting program. Move on from youthful play time and get busy with serious adult life. I agree the BSA doesn’t give the older scouts any vision

I do agree with your Cub thoughts. Especially the squirrel age. Squirrel? Barry

I’m now sure how any of that enhances the program towards growth, I’m willing to to listen. But, I don’t like how they separate the ages after the cub ages. Character growth is very dependent on older scouts mentorship and they don’t do a good job there. The UK scouts believe in Patrol Method, but without the older mentors, their program relies heavily on adult mentorship. And that is not the same. Barry

How many lives are saved from the program. I’m a personal witness to many. I wouldn’t be standing up for it if it weren’t true.

Some here are supporting killing the program. I believe scouting is a noble program that adds good moral decision makers to the world. Barry

When folks want to kill a program as a result of personal harm, context and truth is very important. Barry

One type of light! I’m travel in Europe at moment and they use the same Red Yellow Green traffic signals as the rest of the world. And, we are warned to watch out for drivers who run red lights. The whole world knows the rules and they know when the rules are broken. if you want to keep using the 82,000 scouts sexually abused number (which I don’t believe), can you include the total number of BSA members during the same time? I don’t know what that is, but you seem to have insight in these details. Barry

I disagree. Barry

Isn’t that like saying traffic lights don’t work because someone got hurt by a drunk driver running a red light. Scouting is very safe. Not perfect, but very safe. Barry

Of course. We would expect nothing less from his dad. Barry

My experience for yours! Should everyone in the nation sacrifice their education for the one abused student? We could go on and on, should we sacrifice aviation for one crash victim? Should we sacrifice cars? Your question doesn’t have a pragmatic relevance. Your trying use moralism to raise your anger above the nobility of scouting’s mission. But your question isn’t in context with the overall good of scouting’s mission anymore than the abuse student in public school. Bad things happen to good people, but the world doesn’t come to an end. Barry

The experience is making moral and ethical decision makers of millions of young people for future generations and cultures. Barry

I was just thinking about this question with all the abuse in the public school system. In fact, you could ask the question of any organization, associated, or public institute. One victim of harm is a crime against humanity. Should the National public school system be shutdown over one victim. Maybe five. Dare not that we even consider 10 victims against all the good that has come from the public school system over the last 100 years. The question has no relevance forward balance and never will with the hurt with any victim of unfair harm in any system intended to advance positive growt

Examples please! Barry

This is part of it, but patrol method is also developing habits that enable immature decision makers an environment to practice choices based from the scout law. That in of itself is chaotic enough. Some regimented procedures provide scouts a safe place to make decisions based on the law instead of emotion. Structure is kindness. And when an individual builds the habit of making decisions based from trustworthy, helpful, friendly, …….., then they have the maturity to try it differently to improve the results, just like my kids are doing as parents. Barry

I think you might be confusing inclusion and diversity. They aren't the same thing. Anyone who lives by the Oath and Law will do the right thing. no-matter the differences of the other person. That being said, how do you know non-white's and non-males to be a problem, I would be interested to see your data because I know the non-males around here make up close to 50% of the membership at the adult level. So your data will be interesting. As for Woodbadge making a difference, well, hmm. I don't see it. Maybe I'm looking to much at the big picture. However, because I have seen it loca

It's just a way for the BSA to check the progressive. box. I'm not sure what population you are speaking of, but this requirement isn't going to change it. The BSA has been working to get into other demographics like inner city, but the effort is a challenge that requires a lot of resources. Barry

This is really good, thanks Inquisitivescouter. I used to highlight to scouts and adult leaders in training that the Scout Oath and Law are framed in diversity. The Scout states that they under their honor they will do their best to do their duty of treating all unique individuals under the one Scout Law. Barry