Eagle92

PH,

I also recommend a troop necker. Heck multicolored neckers are popular in other Scouting associations across the globe.

One idea off the top of my head would be a necker patch (cheaper than embroidering and can be ordered in bulk, used for tabletops decorations, troop awards, etc)that has some symbol of troop A then a lightening bolt some symbol of troop B. if you don't want a multicolored necker, have the patch multicolored, with the lightening bolt dividing the colors in half diagonally.

Oh heck with it, got with a red necker since national wants to cut out that color and go with what the guys want

NLDScout,

Every council does somethign a little different. In my home council, if a unit met certain requirements all advancement was paid for by the council, except for the eagle kit. While they would pay for the rank patch, the unit bought the kit. Usually we got the free rank and the kit. In two other councils I was in, everything came out of the unit funds. I don't know if it still happens in my current council, I've been affiliated with the district for too long, but when I was a pro here, they had one of the local banks sponsor the eagle kits so once the paperwork came in, a kit also went out with the certificate, letter, and card.

In general, the BSA doesn't want people wearing more than one hat, except in a few instances like the ones I mentioned above and also witht he new Scout parents POR. It can cause problems, conflicts, and can lower your performance.

In my case I am the OA chapt. adv. and Lodge AIA adviser. During Ordeals there are conflicts as my chapter may be doing A, but AIA is doing B. Ditto witht he upcoming fall fellowship as there are chapter activities going on simultaneously as AIA activities.

BW is right in that the CO owns all the troop equipment, even if it cam out of scout funds and not the CO's. This can be a royal pain in the butt if the CO refuses to relinquesh the money and/or equipment. Rigt now I know of 1 CO that refuses to relinquesh canoes, tents, trailer, and other equipment that scouts paid for out of their own pockets, but technically belongs to the CO. Is it fair, no, but it is the rules.

Fortunately most COs either don't know or don't care if they own the scout equipment, so it won't matter. When my unit switched COs the first time, since the original CO destroyed 90% of our equipment, the issue really wasn't a problem. For the second CO switch, there were concerns as the troop had replaced everything lost from the original CO, and nothing was over 2 years old. Fortunately the new IH hated scouts with a passion and told us to take everything with us when we switched to the new CO. however I bet if the IH realized how much we had in the scout account, she would have tried to take that from us when we switched COs.

I've seen the blanket ponchos adn they do look NICE. They are very poular in the UK with a lot of scouts and leaders wearing them. problem is I've seen maybe 3 of those in the USA.

AlFansome is correct b/c the CC reports to the CR. In additions to CC/CR combinations, you can also have a IH/CR/CC combination, and have seen it done once.

Personally I don't think that a council should restrict MBCs to s specific number, but to areas they are qualified to teach. For example I am registered to do all of the aquatics MBs, except sailing, so that's 4 mbs there. that's from being a BSA lifeguard and YMCA lifeguard instructor. I also do First Aid since I am a AHA instrcutor for work. I also do the three citizenships b/c of my academic background, and Indian Lore b/c I am the lodge's AIA adviser. that'a a total of 9 MBs I teach. Plus I probably teach a few more if I wanted

Now would I try for things like plumbing, nuclear energy, or hosrmanship? Heck no as I have no background in those areas. And I would expect council to deny my request to teach them since I am not qualified.

BW,

Please remember that some time in the past, patches were allowed to be worn all over the jacket. I'd seen many old time Scouters wear them, including a "uniform nazi." While some of those folks continue to wear the jac-shirts with patches all over, the "uniform nazi" I know retired his and bought a new one with the proscribed insignia.

In reference to the jacket and patches question, I'ld follow policy. I would rather have my special patches in a patch book or framed than on a jacket that can get dirty or lost.

Must ditto what Beavah. Had a very similar situation when I was a DE. Long story short I was told that it was a unit matter that had to be handled by the CO until a lawyer get involved. The it becomes a council problem.

This is a very serious matter and I wish you the best of luck.

Ok I admit while the Lightening Troop sounds good, and the idea of a custom patch also sounds nice, I wouldn't recommend it. Save the money for other things like jamboree, Philmont, Sea Base, or Northern Tier

My experience is with "melded" or "blended" troops is that one will offcially fold and merge into the other. This happened with my troop, we had a "starter" troop acting as a patrol until they could get strongetr and be independent. they had a feeder pack and great CO relations. Well my troop's CO relations broke down whent he church got new leadership which hated the BSA. Long story short my troop got permission to keep it's number and switch to the other troop's CO sicne we had longer tenure. That troop folded and merged with us. It was a win-win situation: we got a new very supprotive CO, we got a feeder pack, we got to keep our tenure and troop traditions. The CO got a very strong, established troop to go with it's pack. Almost forgot and had to add, the Pack got a bunch of den chiefs and support from the troop. Again a Win-Win situation(This message has been edited by eagle92)

If you want to get technical, since they are registered witht he district committee, they should have a separete uniform shirt with no unit number and the Dist. Committee POR and silver loops. In all actuality if they are active in scouting, they will probably wear their primary POR shirt, and if they are not active in scouting, regular clothes.

Ok I am assuming that SCOUTNET doesn't allow the ability to differentiate whether a MBC works with a particular unit or anyone one because the programmers never thought of that.

This MBC list is a very BIG deal in my district for th past 4 years and 2 people have made that as part of their WB tickets. That's how messed up it is in my neck of the woods.

Anyway in reference to some questions

MBCs are part of the district committee. once they fill out the form, they are part of the district's charter. They only have to fill out one application. Once on the charter they should be contacted to see if they will continue. If so the name remains, if not they are scratched out.

The MBC list is produced via SCOUTNET. However I do not believe SCOUTNET allows you to list the MBs you teaach. I could be wrong on that last one and if so please tell me. Any way we have someone whose WB ticket is to make a District MBC Rooster, as opposed to a unit one as the original WBer did. So he gets to make a bunch of phone calls, list the MBs, etc.

In the past my district printed a booklet for each troop and bound a copy for the public library. But that came from district volunteers, not council.

You are a registered member of Scouting so you wear a uniform. Wouldn't wear the Scout uniform with blue loops as you are not a CS leader, YET Wear the Venturing uniform, and be prepared for 2 things: 1) CS, leaders, and parents asking about the uniform and Venturing and 2) filling out an application to be a CS Leader.

Good Luck.

I think some of what I said may have been misinterpreted. I do not condone this unit's activity. They do need to follow the rules. But you cannot rush into the situation and change things overnite. Change takes time, and with something that has been set for a long time and apparently working, at least in the leaders' eyes, it will be an uphill battle to change things.

I personally like uphill battles

Again change muist be gradual and explained WHY it is occuring, otherwise you will lose scouts, parents, and leaders.

Goose,

Ok I admit I have ZERO tiger cub leader experience, but I have a few ideas that may help you. Then next year when I take over as a TC DL, you can help me out

1) Have Den dues and explain it to the parents that this is for program supplies. Or as my sons' school does, they come out with a list of supplies that the school will need for the year and hand it to all parents to see if the parents can help out. You'ld be surprised what will come from that. And you don't have do an entire year, maybe 3 months.

2) Use a wall chart that is up at every meeting so that the TCs and parents can keep track. Make a point of showing it to

3) get a copy of Program Helps. i admit it's been a while since I worked in supply, but that book had an entire year's worth of activities in it for Wold and Bear Dens, this was before the overhaul in TCs. So I am assuming, and you know what can happen when you assume , that TCs are now included in Program helps.

4) get a How-To Book. Great resource for all 5 years of CS.

5) Go to RT and meet other TC DLs. great place for training, networking, and getting idea.

good luck

BW,

While the younger scouts may like the changes, it can cause some resentment among the older ones. I remember when BSA did away with Skill Awards adn time requirements between Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks. I was one ticked off scout and so were my buddies. We thought, and some of my adult colleagues today who were part of that era in Scouting, that the "new" requirements diffused the skills and did not allow a Scout to learn one set of basic skills before moving on to the next one. Also we thought that the removal of the time requirements didn't allow for the younger Scouts to mature. Heck when you see a Scout jump from Scout to First Class after joining in may and attending a week of summer camp, when it took you a little over a year, you feel resentful. And you may lose some of those olde Scouts.

While I've never been in a troop that was set in its ways, when I became a pro, I was placed in a district that was set in its ways. Since I had been a district scouter for 3 years prior to becoming a pro, I rushed in and tried to get everything according to national right away. BIG MISTAKE. There are reasons why things had been done and it took me a while to realize this. In order to make any change and improve the district, I had to pick and choose my battles. When I left, the district was far from perfect, but it had been improved. Heck when I returned 4 years later, it still wasn't perfect, but each of my 6 successors made some improvements.

Shortridge,

Having been in four lodges, I have learned that every one is a little different. Most fellowships I've been to have had little to no work involved. Work involved usually was finishing things that were not completed at ordeal, or some type of emergency suddenly arose and needed to be fixed NOW.

The fellowships I've been to usually are training events in the mornings: hot to do unit elections, camp promotions, AIA stuff, chapter web pages, being an elangomat, etc. This is training that will help out with lodge operations in the long term.

Afternoons are the competitions and activities; the fun stuff.

Evenings are the patch auctions, powwows, and fellowship. Also with my current lodge Vigil honor inductions.

Also we have some fun competions during the entire weekend. One is contest in which each chapter raises camperships.

Don't worry about us being a bunch of lazy gits with clean white sashes We do bust our butts durign the year. We have 3 Ordeal Weekends, 1 Workday at the two auxillary camps, and help run numerous council activities throughout the year.

BW,

While 1 CO = 1 COR may be the rule, I know for a fact that one CO had 3 separate CORs. The pack at this church had one unit number and a COR/CC. The troop that the church chartered had a different number, and a different COR/CC. the Pack's COR/CC was a MC of the troop though. THEN the Venture crew that was created had the SM of the troop as COR/CC and the COR/CC of the troop as the crew adviser. The crew did have the same number as the troop though.

All I could say was great CO, Great leaders, and it worked out.

Not to change the subject, but how many CORs go to District Committee meetings? I ask because in all my 13 years as a district scouter, both volunteer and professional, in 3 different councils, I have only seen 1 COR at a meeting, and he was the District Chairman. I never saw them when I was a volunteer the first go around, could never get them to come to a meeting as professional, and only saw the one above the second time around as a volunteer.

I also got fellowship in two weeks, and it will be a blast despite me having to work, if you can call it that. I am teaching a few classes on Native American regalia and dance, conducting a regalia making session in the afternoon, MCing the powwow that night, and being a Vigil sponsor. While I'll be busy, I can't wait to see old friends, and make new ones. I am especially anxious to see the look on my Vigil candidate's face as I grab him by the shoulder and say "Come with me."

Ok here's mt $.02 worth.

1) This policy violates national policies, as expressed in both the Guide for Officer and Advisers and and Guide for Inductions, and needs to be rescinded. Either the lodge chief, adviser, staff adviser, or SCotF needs to do this by fiat.

2) This lodge's policy doesn't make any sense because who usually drives youth to OA functions: adults in the lodge. Without adutls, how do chapters survive?

I can see how a chapter can falter with this type of policy. The chapter I am in now once had a vibrant history with lots of adults and youth involved. Well as usually happens youth age out, go to college, move. etc, so the adults provide a degree of stability and leadership. Over time the adults started to become over extended in Scouting, and became inactive. There went rides to functions, there went examples to the new members of how the OA is supposed to be, and chapter came to a point where only 3 Arrowmen attended an Ordeal, and 1 Arrowman attended the lodge banquet.

We turned things using a variety of methods, but the biggest one was getting adults involved. We are now picking up, and keeping new members. The adults are doing what they are supposed to do, advise, and are even acting like kids themselves. The funniest thing I've ever seen was two adults trying to outdo each other in clearing trail!

Ok spun off another thread. but someone mentioned this policy in refence to nominating an adult from a unit:

Your troop must attend 50% of the Chapter meetings/Lodge or

National OA functions so that you can have an adult nominated

in 200_.

Ever heard of such a thing before or is a lodge adding requirements? nothing in the GO&A or G2I.

Eagle1984,

Where are you getting the "Your troop must attend 50% of the Chapter meetings/Lodge or National OA functions so that you can have an adult nominated in 200_" stats from? There is no such policy in the Guide to Inductions, accessible at this link http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/gti/'>http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/gti/ or in the Guide for Officer and Advisers, accessible at this link http://www.oa-bsa.org/resources/pubs/ . I should know I am a chapter adviser whose chapter is in the process of organizing unit elections and preparing for a Call Out Ceremony this month. Maybe if more adults from the troop were active with the OA, then the scouts would follow the example? That's been my problem with reestablishing my chapter: alot of adults didn't participate so the Scouts didn't participate.

Sitrep,

Sorry to hear about the 'popularity contest" elections. I've heard about those and have seen one or two in the past, especially before the current procedures were in place, i.e. old procedure = only can vote for half the eligble members listed. back then it was not uncommon for someone to wait for the 2nd or 3rd election to get in. Heck I got in at 15 on my third election. IF you have a good election team, and IF you have leaders who emphasize that it is NOT a popularity contest, then you should be OK. I know that when I did elections, I emphasized the work aspect of the OA and that made people look at the seriousness of the election.

As for what the OA does, jambo and council camps have already been mentioned. I cannot emphasize to much how much the OA helps camps. Having been on summer camp staff for 7 years, I can tell you that without the OA, neither of the two council camps would be operational. they do that much.

Also when councils put on camporees and Cub Scout events, the OA is usually playing a major in the backgorund, and a minor role on stage. In my old council, the OA prepped the camp for 8,000+ folks at the "Fall Encampment," had a service corps to help run the events, and also put on the Arena Show.

Not mentioned was the OA support for our national high adventure bases: Philmont, FL Sea Base, Northern Tier. All three have programs that use Arrowmen to work on projects at the bases in addition to normal staff. All are volunteers who pay to participate in these programs.

I could go on and on, about the OA, but I need a shower and sleep for an ECOH tomorrow.

Eagle92

BW,

All commissioners are registered at the council level. districts are, for lack of a better term, sub units of the council.That's why district level folks wear silver loops. Further district boundaries are made and dissolved by the council.

There is a way to get replacements, I mean extra, ranks. Use two or three of your older scouts information, and fill out the advancement report. Then Write "REPLACEMENTS" underneath notifying that these folks have already been placed in the system. best time to do this is just prior to summer camp, as staff usually have 2-3 uniforms and need replacements, or prior to jamboree, again need replacements for multiple uniforms.

We had several units do this, manager knew and didn't bother her.

Go to the scout shop and bring your shirt. that should be evidence enough. I knwo when i worked at a national scout shop, we took as evidence of earning the AOL, and eagel as well, the following; pocket certificate, certificate, pictures from a ceremony, and the existing uniform is a replacement.