Eagle92

I must be one of the creepiest of the creeps around. Not only am I a Scouter without a child in the program, but also I was a stay-at-home dad for four year!

Yep I got tired of some of the looks when I was out with my kids while I was in grad school and looking for a job. But the heck with them.

It depends upon both the troop's tradition and your son's wishes. In some troops, mine was one of them, you were an "Eagle Candidate" until your COH. And this was used very jokingly with the New Eagles. Heck one guy had some fun with "Eagle Candidate" at his ECOH since he didn't have his ECOH until after coming back fromt eh USAF when he was 21. The ECOH was when you got everything; patch, medal, pins, certificate, etc.

In other troops you get the patch ASAP, but the medal and cert. at the ECOH. One of the troops in my area does this since they only have 1 ECOH each year on Scout Sunday.

And then you have those scouts who don't want ot make a big deal about it for whatever reason. had one of those who had his Eagle presented to him at the troops COH. Also had another who had everythign presented to him at a meeting. He was also leaving to go to bootcamp, so that may have been the reason for the hurry.

Click,

The old requirements for the world crest were abolished in 1989, not 1991. I know because I was part of an international activity that was supposed to have received the WC that year. We found out just prior to the trip that the requirements for that award were abolished and anyone could wear the WC. Ticked alot of us off. However the contingent leaders did make it up to us by issuing the WC from the country we visited. Same design, but the background was velvet. Still have it in my display case.

Anderele,

Did you ever get the Scouters Training Award or SM KEY? I ask because if you got either, then you should be considered a fully trained leader since being a Trained leader is one of the requirements. If so then your council should accept that as proof of being fully trained.

In reference to continuous training, yes it's good but sometimes not possible. Some districts are small and don't have the interest to get a specific course going. That was one of my problems. Another problem is time. I don't know about other councils, but it seems as if there is something going on every weekend related to scouting. OA, COPE, Eagle Weekend, MB University, Pow wow, camporee ad nauseum. Then you got to add in family time. Let's face it happy spouse is a happy scouter

Then there are other challenges. One of my biggest challenges as training chair was getting enough staff to teach the courses. And for a variety of reasons: no DE for a long period of time, an inactive council training committee, listing the previous dist. training chair once the council committee was established, etc, so the possiblity of having multi-district training and/or sending folks to other districts was not an option since no one knew when other district's training was. Fortunately this situation is getting better in my council, but it still has a ways to go.

Another challenge was training records. I had folks who taught at university of scouting, WB, various training courses, PTC, etc who were considered "untrained" by the council. Again the records were messed up. Hopefully things will improve in the records area by national since the records are supposed to be portable. trust me after moving to 4 councils in a five year period, they are not as I have constantly had to send in copies of training records, and that is for the courses that provided them to me. One of the councils did not issue the pocket certs.

that's why you tuck in the collar and wear a neckerchief (This message has been edited by eagle92)

If possible, let him Wear the venturing uniform with his eagle badge, Eagle and other medals and OA sash if a member for two reasons.

1) Uniform regs allow venturers to wear eagle patch until 21

2) Promotes a " new" program that the BSA has that not many outside the Scouting community know about.

Need to modify that last statement I made, In my old troop it was common for 18 YO eagle to wear it until they turned 19.

I know the uniform police are going to get me on this one, but it was common for 18 yo adults to wear the Eagle patch on their uniform until 19. Then it came off. That was while I was a 18YO ASM. When they started the Venture Crew, then everyone wore their Eagle Patches after they turned 18 per uniform policy on the Venturing shirt.

Haven't heard anything about this yet, but my question is this: what will be considered a "Trained' leader? I ask becasue we already have controversry with the WB and WB21C courses. I also ask because when I updated the training records of our leaders, Some of the courses that folks took to become trained were not listed in Training Book or in the registrar's book of training codes. I talking about folks who have been in Scouting for a long time, have trained folks, earned the Scouters training and/or SM Key, but because their course is not coded, they are not trained.

Baschram,

I have a friend who has you beat. Was ASM and SM prior to son and is still SM. Son is now ASM and Crew adviser. Grandson is a PL. Joke with this scouter is BP was his SM.

Moxie,

IOf memory serves me correctly, when the new OA handbook came out, national forgot to change the info to get to JumpStart. Sorry I can't tell you where to find the word now, but if anyone PMs me and is willing to answer a few questions, I'll hook them up.

While "a Scout if Helpful" it doesn't mean I won't be a had butt with the questions. My lodge had a "poser" claiming to be Vigil of all things, but couldn't find his old uniform, couldn't remember his ordeal, vigil name, etc.

In reference to Keith Christopher, if I remember correctly he does have some Sea Explorer/Scout experience. I beleive his daughter was registered with Ship 1 at one time. Also he worked with a ship that had the national bosun in it.

I am going to toot my own horn for a minute or so. I have no kids in the program yet. But i've been a leader for 16 years now aqnd I know I've made a difference.

As soon as I turned 18, I became an ASM, with the formal investitutre done at my ECOH 5 months after my 18th birthday. I stayed with my old unit for 5 years, being a role model, counselor, and "big brother" to those in my troop. When I left the troop to be a DE, the troop threw a party for me with guys who had aged out with me and while I was an ASM com,ing pack tot he party. I also had guys still climbing the trail want to knwo when I could come back for their ECOH becasue they wanted me their. Heck one guy deliberately waited 7 months to have his ECOH so I could be there. Another one of my Eagles waited 2 months for me to be there.

While a DE I started several packs and troops; recruited countless Cubs and Scouts; and recruited leaders to make a difference. Even though I left my district for 4 years, when I came back as a volounteer I still see some of the boys I recruited as CS. I still see leaders who are giving tirelessy of their time, energy, and money to provide a quality program that I recruited. And yes some of those leaders do not have youth in the program anymore. I feel alot of pride when I go to one of my units and see a young man that I recruited way back when finally complete the trail to Eagle. When I see these outstanding young men, i know I made a difference.

Yes I admit I am selfish as to the reasons why I am still involved in Scouting after all these years. Scouting is my drug of choice for a variety of reasons. I enjoy the outdoors. I enjoy making a difference in someone's life. I enjoy being a positive role model. Heck I feel like a kid again when I am camping, doing work with the OA, etc. etc.

Also Scouting has been very good to me and I feel I need to give back. I've been to a NOAC, a national jamboree and a world jamboree. I've done 50 milers in Canada, the Gulf of Mexico, and FL. I did 7 years of summer camp staff as an adult without kids in the program. And I did the European Camp Staff Program. Scouting has been very good, and I feel obligated to give back.

If you mean an 18 year old having a his ECOH, I say let him wear the uniform as it is his day. In addition to the Eagle Presentation Kit, I would buy a knot as well. Further if the young man is continuing on as an ASM, get that POR patch and do an ASM investiture ceremony.

I actually know of one 21 year old who had his ECOH. His mom saved his "old" uniform for the day he when after serving in the USAF he could have the ECOH. Yep he had an ECOH three years after earning his Eagle. The troop had no problems with him wearing that old uniform with all the youth patches since we knew the situation.

I really don't think the "uniform police" are going to get that nit picky at a young man's ECOH.

You can find the admonition in the ceremony books.

With the exception of two active Eagles, I have never, repeat NEVER, seen an active Eagle, either youth or adult, out of uniform at an ECOH.

As for those two active Eagles out of Scout uniform, one was representing the USN for a certificate presentation, and was in USN uniform. The other Eagle was representing the Marine Corps League for a certificate presentation, and was in that uniform.

Congrats on the election, SPL was a position I never formally held, alwasy the ASPL.

In referecne to discipline, that's always a tricky one. i'll let others discuss that in detail. What we always did was put the troublemaker on display, basically asking him questions and letting him "teach" the class. That usually shut them up when I was in your shoes.

As for planning your meetings, if you unit doesn't have a copy of the old "Woods Wisdom," or newer 'Troop Program Helps, Vols. 1-3" I would urge your SM to get a copy. each volume covers 12 topics, so with all three you can do 3 years of program without repeating. Also recomend Troop Program Resources.

Keith Christopher is the new pro in charge of Sea Scouts ?!?!? I had the great honor and pleasure of being in the New Orleans Area Council when he was Director of Support Services and he knows his stuff. Very approachable and knowledgable. national couldn't have picked a better pro for the job!

The hat should be whatever the PLC wants it to be. It can be the offical cap, the expedition hat, scout camp hat, whatever the boys decide. My original troop originally limited to the scout ball caps and Smokeys for those who went through WB or Brownsea. Overtime the scouts decided any scout hat was ok so you saw Philmont hats, jamboree hats, scout camp hats, and when we stated doing exchanges with a Canadian troops, Canadian Scout hats. As for my EBOR, I had my smokey on!

ScoutmomSD,

Don't knock those of us who don't have kids in the program. For me, Scouting has opened up a world of opportunities as a youth, and I want to give back. Or as my wife says "Scouting is your drug of choice" Seriously though Scouting is something that gets into you and won't let go. And I am looking forward to my oldest finally being a Tiger Cub next year.

Also some of the best SMs I know have never had kids in scouting. My original SM never had kids, he was a doting uncle who started a troop for his nephews. Even when they aged out and moved on, he continued to work with us and make a difference. Sad day when he finally left after 25 years of being SM.

I also know of two gentlemen who took over their floundering troops as soon as they turned 21. Both are still active, both are still SMs, and both don't have sons in the program. However one is looking forward to his daughter can joining Venturing in a few years

(This message has been edited by eagle92)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

GW,

Yep the camporee is a district function. But the commissioners handle the uniform inspection. Sorry my brain is fried at the moment, but I believe at one time an annual uniform inspection was something the commissioner staff was to do. This is a holdover from that time as it is considered the annual inspection. Also points towards toe camporee's award are given, and some units int he past have lost because of the inspection. Everyone takes it seriously here.

Emb,

I am going to have to disagree with you on Eagle to a degree. The new requirements may be designed for an11-13 year old, But for us older Eagles the requirements were definitely NOT.

As for why some Scouts get Eagle late, even with the new requirements,there are a variety of reasons. I've seen some scouts who are involved in school extracurriculars, and do their best to continue Scouting. I've seen scouts who had to support themselves and help their families out financially. Heck I know of one eagle who actually had to fight his parents to remain in Scouting and get his Eagle.

Now grant you I have not seen this policy that you mention in writing, But I do remember when I was in PDL-1 in 1998 and they brought out the "new" Venturing program what was to be starting in August. When the comment was made by the then director of venturing that the Silver Award was going to supplant the Eagle who had 20+ brand new DEs say "H3!! NO it aint supplanting Eagle."

I would have hoped that national would have gotten the message then.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

OK I actually have experience removing two leaders, and they are not a pleasant ones. While your DE and UC can help and advise you on the process, it is a "unit matter." here is my advice.

1) Make sure the UC, DC, and DE all know what is going on as they will receive flak about the removal. TRUST ME , I got a 12AM phone call from the individual when she was informed that her services were no longer needed. Plus as I mentioned above they can give advice on how to do it.

2) If your COR and IH are not actively involved with your unit, you need to have a sit down meeting with them to keep them in the loop as they will also be receiving flak about it. Again TRUST ME I had to meet with an IH about the problem that was occurring in "my pack." The CC forgot to inform the IH and COR that he was removing the CM. Fortunately the CC was able to join mewhen I visited the IH and COR and go over the exact nature of the problem.

3) Put everything in writing so that it is crystal clear. While no explanation is needed, unfortunately you need to CYA in today's climate of lawsuits.

good luck.

Another reason for the decline in Scouting may be some of the professionals and their quest to meet their memberships goals. The official stats may be off from the get go becasue of this problem. Ok I'll say it GHOST UNITS. How many of you have encountered those before?(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Lem,

Never judge a book by it's cover in reference to leaders. My old SM was about 5'9", was over 200 lbs, and had a large waist. However he ran marathons as a hobby, and when groups went to Philmont, he could walk people into the ground.

Now as to why Scouting is losing number. IMHO, I think several factors are involved. In reverse order

3) Not enough dedicated leaders. Let's face it it takes time and dedication to be a leaders. When I was a DE doing roundups, I could get every single boy interested in CS, but when it cam time to recruit leaders from the parents, it was like pulling teeth.

2) Not enough parental involvement. I've met parents who viewed Scouting as if it was a sport: seasonal. When they realize that it is a year round program, they start backing down some. if parents back down, no matter how good your program is, you will lose scouts.

1) Society had produced a generation that "wants it NOW!" let's face it we are the instant gratification generation/society. How many folks actually saved up a down payment for a house? How many wait and save 0to buy a car? I remember when a scout had to wait for the court of honor to get their advancement, anywhere from a week to three months. Now it's policy to recognize the youth with the rank ASAP. Instant gratification. And Eagle is not something that you can get overnite. So we get some who join, realize they actually need to put soem time and effort to advance and don't like it.