Eagle92

Everyone has said given good advice. I know b/c I've "been there, done that." GET INVOLVED and don't worry.

One thing that can help is if in your old unit there are a few leaders, or even older scouts, who remember you. I left my old troop after completing college to take on a DE job in another part of the country. When I transfered to Supply Division three years later, I moved back into my old council and picked up where I left off with the my old troop. They had alot of new faces with leaders and scouts, but one of the committee was around when I was active, as well as the SPL, ASPL, and a few members of the Venture Patrol. At the first meeting back, a swim test and prep nite for summer camp, there were some concerned looks by parent who didn't know be. But once word was out that "YODA" (my troop nickname) was back, things quieted down.

Also if you have a girlfriend/fiance, do invite her on any family functions: i.e. COHs, family campout, family daytrip, etc. And be a stickler for YPT. That will calm down nerves.

Old SM,

Yes it's a marketing slick, but it is from national supply division. A poster version has been sent to all national scout shops and distributors to be posted, or so I've been told. Plus in the very breif conversation I had with a national scout shop manager, that's the way it's coming out in the insignia guide next month.

When I checked national supply yesterday, they were not listed anywhere. Ebay here I come.

Also look for your hypermotivated young Scout who may be willing to serve as a DC. I was one such lad and did 3 years with a DC. thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

With my old troop, once we got a feeder pack, we developed a very strong relationship with them. Since we had a large troop with only so many PORs for Eagle, we needed an outlet and used the DC. Usually ther were 1st.Class or higher, and had served as an APL or higher before becoming a DC. Only with a few exceptions, Scouts who had younger brothers, did we allow someone with any experience do the DC job.

I guess Ship's Stores is gonna be upset when no longer sell the AOL knots for the blue and white crackerjacks.

FScouter,

Unless there is a more up-to-date card somewhere on national's website that I am unable to find, I can't even find any copy of the progress cards I am talking about, the a Sea Scout Skipper working on his Skipper's Key can also use his tenure from terh Sea Scouter's training Award, at least as is posted on my council's site.

Also what about Varsity Scout Teams, have there been changes there?

There is supposed to be some follow through, although that didn't happen in all cases. Basically we ask the "sponsor," and I use that in a loose term, to invite them to our January meeting which is a candidate orientation/ chapter social. Also we ask them to encourage them to attend the Ordeal.

We did have the orientation just prior to the March Ordeal, but had complaints becasue the call outs were in November, now october, and they did not here fromt he OA again until March. So we send out a letter after the Call Out, invite them in January, and send out info about the Ordeal in February.

The real purposes of having Arrowmen get candidates were twofold.

1)To make sure we did not accidentily forget any candidates as had happened in the past. This was a result of last minute ceremony team changes and also last minute elections. By having sponsors get the candidates and present them to "Chief of the Fire," no one is left out.

2) To show everyone attending the district camporee who has undergone the Ordeal. Yep we recognize everyone, active and inactive by having everyone form a backdrop behind the ceremony team. This shows who is/has been active, who parents and scouts can go to for some questions, and is an attemp to get folks back involved. Already got 2 inactive members to do something.

Ok I know they are questions on insignia placement with the new uniforms. I found this website at national supply division that covers the new uniform placement.

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/2008UniformGuide.pdf

Also if you try to look up the insignia guide to purchase, it will tell you temporarily our of stock expected september 2008.

Like the new hats better than the old ones and am glad the smokies are still allowed. I would have to become one of those troublemakers petioning national on that one like I did with the kneesocks way back when, cause that was something I was issued upon completing Brownsea way back when as was then issued a second one for staffing JLT.

Does anyone know if the expedition, various BSA stetsons, and and CS boonie hats still allowed as they are not mentioned in the pdf.

BW,

When did this policy change in reference to not wearing Eagle badge on the Venturing uniform. I know that when I left supply division in 2002, a Venturer (not a Sea Scout) could still wear the Eagle Badge on their uniform, since if they had earned at least First Class before becoming a Venturer, they could still work on BS rank. This was advancement policy, and in the insiginia guide. My part-time scout shop clerk, preferred to wear a Venturing uniform with his Eagle Badge that he paid out of pocket, instead of the issued leader uniform with knots, because he could show off his well earned Eagle badge better.

Yeah just checked the national site and the council is out of date. So my question on this matter is this: should a a leader be penalized if, in good faith, he or she received the wrong card, completed the requirements that they were given, and turns it in.

Also I noticed that there have been a few changes in the requirements of the Scouter's Training Award since I got it, and probably others as well. What about those who got a card at their intial training, and the requirements were changed, i.e the specific order of training needed, would they need to do the new training when originally their training counted?

On another note, does anyone have access to an insignia control guide and see if there are anything on mounting knots on ribbon bars? I would say current, but my old boss in Supply said that a new one should be out soon with the new insignia changes.

Not to change the subject, but I am anyway, how the heck do you keep the devices on your knots? Mine were constantly coming off, and I don't mean in the wash either. It's like the pin portion was not long enough. The only thing I've seen done is two volunteers having their knots mounted on a ribbon bars and had the pins on the devices snipped so that they could superglue the devices onto the the knots. As you can guess I just said heck with the devices and stopped buying replacements.

right now i only have five and here they are in order of how i view the precedence

Eagle

AOL

Youth Religious with CS,BS, and SS devices

Scouter's key with committee device

Scouter's training award with bs device

I have only two more requirements to meet the international scouter award., so hopefully I can get that one in the next 3 years.

True, the internet can have incorrect info. But it's the pdfs of the progress records of the various awards off the council website. none of those awards has the tenure note that the rest of the awards do.

And if council doesn't have it updated, well what can i say.

I just spent some time online looking up the forms and what not. Sorry I turned in my district training book to my successor, so it took some time.

I will have to change what I said and have to agree, you can't use the same calendar period except for the following awards; Scouter's Training Award, SM Key, Varsity Scout Leader Letter Award, Varsity Scout Coach Key, Sea Scouter training Award, Skipper's Key, Venturing Leader Training Award, and Venturing Advisor's Key Award. Why those are an exceptions, I can only guess it's because the respective Keys require the respective Training Awards/Letter.

Do I think it's right, no, because we have several outstanding leaders doing multiple jobs in multiple programs.

Am I going to follow it, yes because we must set the example for the youth.

Will I now check to see if everyone wearing knots did not overlook the tenure note, NO, it a done deal.

Do I think it's a big deal, no because in the two years I was the district training chair, I had 0 applications submitted to me. And it's not from a lack of discussion at training sessions or a RT or two.

At least the volunteer I mentioned in my previous post can get the Scouter's Training Award, Venturing Leader Training Award, and Venturing Advisor's Key Award using the same tenure as that is allowed by national.

GMitch,

National Supply Division policy was "Satisfaction Guaranteed." If something was wrong or broke, you returned it and either got a new one or your money back. I would go to the scout scout shop with your receipt, that speeds up the process but isn't necessary, and get your money back or a replacement. trust me on this as I couldn't count ht enumber of TC paw Prints I had to replace when they came out withthe ones with cut outs in them. Further I would also give a letter to the manager to forward to supply division. Or you can call them direct at 972-580-2131.

I know people complain about them at times, but SD does indeed listen to their customers. When the knee socks were discontinued, people did complain and they were brought back 2 years later. The centennial uniform is a result of surveys of the customers.

How about an OPINION from a former pro? In the ideal world that is national, a Scouter should have only one registered position, i.e only being a SM, only being on the Dis. Comm,only being a commissioner, etc. And we are told to recruit, recruit, recruit so that no one on the district committee should wear multiple hats, just as no one should wear multiple hats within the units BARRING the IH/COR/CC as one person can hold two or all three of those postions.

However we don't live in an ideal world at times, and we are forced to have one person wearing multiple hats. I'm a good example, I was a UC and Training Chair at the same time because no one wanted the training job. Now I am a OA Chap. Adv. and Lodge AIA adviser. I know one gentleman who was a CM, ASM, DisCom (on three different committees: camping, membership, and CS Activities). He just recently gave up CM to be a Vent. Adv. So it's not always possible to have the one person, one job rule.

So I was told by other DEs and my FD that separate PORs equal separate tenures. BUT you could not use the same activities for the requirements. Again this is what I was told to do in my council. I strongly recommend talking to someone on the council training committee on that one.

On another note, most leaders either don't know about or don't care about the knots. In the person I mentioned above,he only cared about his Eagle and AOL knots. It was only when the scouts in his troop got on his case that he became interested in knots.

As for me, the only reason why I started wearing knots, other than my Eagle, AOL, and Rel. Award, is that I was constantly being questioned on "what I knew about Scouting/OA" when I was a 22 YO Chap. Adv. For whatever reason people stopped questining me when I started wearing my Scouter's Training Award. Heck I still haven't placed my Dis.Com. Key knot on all my uniforms, and it's been over a year.

No, Brotherhood ceremonies are done at the lodge level only at this time. While it sounds like an interesting idea, I don't think it's going to be feasible since the Lodge is putting a major emphasis on the entire Brotherhood process. We have just impletmented the Brotherhood Hike into the Brotherhood process with some great feedback. Also we don't have enough active youth Brotherhood members to do the ceremony at this time.

In reference to new adult members, yes I've been pushing that as well as trying to get old adult members active again. We are definately having some success. Our carpool system is working out.

Also the SM has just stepped down and joined the committee. The New SM is a candidate, and hopfully with take the Ordeal next month as it is his last chance without havign to go through the entire niminating process again.

It not just a money issue or a volunteer issue, or a cultural issue. It's a combination of issues.

I've done recruiting for minority scouts and have started a minority unit in the past. I had problems galore starting it. Some problems included

1) Charter Organization, yes they wanted the program, and yes they provided a place to meet and connected me with some adults to serve as volunteers, but they did not promote the program. Also they looked at it as an extension of their after school care program.

2)Getting volunteer leaders was like pulling teeth, painful. we had alot of interest for the boys, but not many adults wanted to get involved. Grant you most were working 2 jobs or were single parent households.

3)Finances, unfortunately the neighborhoods these kids lived in did not support self efficiency. Lots of drug problems, lots of gang violence, lots of shootings. There were a few safe, neutral places, usually churches and the recreation center, but hat was it. You definately couldn't sell popcorn in the areas. We lucked out and got a corporate sponsor for the pack and troop, but that led to problem 4.

4) Council was not supportive of me starting minority units. FD and myself were all for it. Got housing director as membership chair and had a council board member come to kickoff of the recruiting program. But DFS was totally against the program and said somethings I couldn't beleive.

5) History of segregation. I was in the south and yes segregation is still remembered. Heck I couldn't beleive that as late as the early 1980s the territory comprised 2 dsitricts, one white, one black. They did somethings together, but for the most part had their own separate calendars.

I've been thinking about a comment USR made in reference to someone poisoning the attitude against the OA, and it hit me. While I was in another council, there was an incident between several Arrowman and the Associate Adviser. My understanding is he caught them smoking some marijuana. While several of scouts admitted to doing that, one adamantly denied smoking it, saying he was only hanging around. The scouts were asked to not come to any OA activities for a year. That particular scout did not ever come back and transferred to the super troop because the Chap. AA was also his ASM.

If this scout did indeed cause problems, then hopefully three guys I had from their troop made and impact while there. Of the three guys I did eventually get out of that troop, 2 became officers, and all three were on the ceremony team at some point. And I just lost two of them as mentioned above.

OK what else could I have overlooked?

I've heard complaints about the troop being easy from several folks and how the parents are the ones either doing the work or pushing their Scouts. I don't know as I've only had contact with two of the scouts, and they do a great job. They do have a large number of Eagles in the 14-15 yo range, but if you have the financial resources they do to do the activities they do, well the advancement comes naturally. I mean they send at least 10-12 boys to national jamboree, go to Philmont on a regular basis, and do some really excellent weekend trips.

Here is what I did. I talked to the SM, and he really didn't know what the problem is. Although he isn't attending OA events, he is registered and has posted information about Conclave and other OA events on the troop's bulletin board. I know this because he also got permission from the CO to have use use the meeting room for the chapter meetings.

So I took this a sign that the chapter doesn't have much visibility outside of running the trading post and doping the Call Out at dis. camporee, having elections, and if the troop wanted, a camp promotion. Yes we had troops decline camp promos in the past I am told. So my goal was to improve the visibility of the chapter and the OA. My thinking was that if people knew what we do, they woulr be more inclined to joinand be active.

1) I got the district camporee to incorporate a point scheme in the judging that OA unit elections and camp promotions. So we had to visit you.

2) Got my chapter officers to make a presentation on the OA at a RT and signed up for unit visits.

3) I bugged the heck out os SMs who either didn't make RT to schedule a unit visit or wouldn't commit to one.

4) Working with the CC got arrowmen to commit to unit visits. And I also accompanied every election and camp promo team to ensure that there were no problems and answer questions that the scouts didn't know. We basically used alot of new Ordeal members and got them involved ASAP.

5) got new member involved ASAP as mentioned above.

6) got our secretary to add photos to the chapter newsletter, and had it sent out monthly.

7) utilized our chapter yahoo group more.

8) encouraged our adults to wear their sashes at special event like COHs and District banquet. This actually brought up some misconceptions on the wearing of the sash. For whatever reason many people don't think it's permissible to wear the sash at non-OA events, despite the fact that the HB says it's ok at special events that you want to recognize Arrowmen. the way I've been taught is that the unit recognizes you as being worthy of the Order. It is only right that you display that honor by wearing the sash at COHs. Although you as an individual go through the Ordeal, your unit selected you to become an OA member.

9) Had OA displays at public Scouting events like the District banquet and Scout Show.

10) Made the district camporee campfire an 'official" OA event with sashes required.

11) Changed our traditional call out ceremony to one in which an OA member of a unit "sponsors" a candidate and presents him to the "Chief of the Fire." That way more Arrowmen are involved now a. In cases of new units, find an Arrowmen who has been influential either in the unit's existence, or in one case the candidate's life (talk about a tear jerker).

12) Revived the chapter drum, and am currently looking to restart a ceremony teasm as I just lost 2 experienced members to out of state schools and one brand new member to the Science and Math school. Both groups this past year have worked in tandem to do AOLs, and other unit ceremonies.

Are there any ways of publicizing the OA that I may have missed/

Depending upon the lodge, while records can be hard to fond, I know that in my current lodge a photo from an OA event, letter from you old lodge, and yes even talking about your experiences from your Ordeal. While most peopel don't remember the adomnition and calling sign, most can tell you exactly what they ate and did. We actually caught an adult poser trying to get into our lodge withou undergoing the Ordeal.

The scout uniform/t-shirt/polo from noon to midnite is a good one, and true. In fact don't be surprised if you have to change from field uniform to dress uniform to executive casual all in the same day. When I first became a DE, I had no furniture for a month or two, so I used the public library as a office. So I was in and out of there several times a day. This one cute librarian thought I was crazy one day when she first say me in three different outfits. I had some volunteer training going on, so I needed to be in a field uniform during the morning. That afternoon, I had a charter presentation a BnG and was "requested" to wear the dress uniform, so she saw me in that after the presentation. I then had to go to an informal meeting with my Key 3 and so I was in executive casual for that. Yep went to the library after that meeting to get some work. Good news is that I later married that librarian.

Seriously though you will be very visible and will be in uniform a lot. Also You will be recognized anywhere you go, especially in a small town, even out of uniform. Go to the grocery, 'hey there's the Scout guy." Go out to dinner with your date, "Hey that's our new DE," etc.

Also as I had experienced, and have noticed and been told by other pros, everything you purchase for yourself, you will consider how it can be used with the job. Clothing, vehicles, audiovisual equipment, everything.

As someone else has mentioned, it' a calling like being in the ministry or military. I have found that prior/retired military tend to handle the job better because the family supports them more.

D.O.C.,

Not using the council camp is part of the problem. Our camp has had it's problems in the past. Trust me I was on camp staff for two years and know first hand some of the problems. I also know that since I worked camp, the program has improved, the facilities have improved, and the staff have improved. I've seen the physical changes, have heard about the improvements form leaders, and see the changes with the staff as they are active year round and love the camp.

This troop goes to one of the nearby 'supercamps" in the mountains. When I did a survey of troops going to ooc camps, the comment from their leaders was that the boys prefer the coolness mountains compared to the heat and humidity of the sea. Also that camp has a lot more modern facilities.

As for the helicopter parent syndrome, that's a new one for me, but it probably is a major chunk of of it. This troop is extremely affluent as most of the leaders and parents are lawyers, doctors, bankers, etc. It was the one unit I was told NOT do do a family FOS presentation as most of the adults were leadership level or higher.

In reference to ordering the gold stars as pairs, they are to be sewn on both sides of the flag. Similar to the blue stars.

And not many folks know about either recognitions.

EAmon,

Do tell do tell, LOL. Seriously I am interested in some of the challenges you encountered because I would like to see international staff at the council camp. As I youth we had Brits and Aussies at the camp and we had no problems.

Now grant you I had some challenges with a couple of Finns I worked with with the ECSP. But overall I had a blast and would have done it again if I could.

ScoutLDR,

that's great about the neighboring LC. Was that part of the ECSP or something else he found out about? And if he did go as part of the ECSP, did the OA program that came about a few years back pay for the travel and college money?

See when I went through the program, you paid an application fee of $150 that covered your medical insurance. WOSM paid half your travel expenses upon your return, and the camp paid for room and board. The a few years back to promote the program, the OA decided that for members under 21 to waive the application fee, cover travel expenses 100%, and give you a $100 per week scholarship upon your return.