Eagle92

Yeah the pay wasn't the greatest, but the hours definitely beat being a DE - Also they do issue you one uniform if PT, 2 if FT, wiht replacement items periodically. But if you work summer camp like I did and my PTer, you definitely want a few uniforms. Also when 85%-95% of the staff is in a Venturing uniform, and national says you want to wear that one you have to buy it, well you buy it. At least the PTer got to wear his Eagle Badge on it instead of the knot .

Also a word of praise on national scout shop folks, and not just because I use to work for them. If you have access to one, BE THANKFUL AND USE THAT RESOURCE! They are constantly keeping up to date with all the materials so that they can serve you. They know what will work, what won't work, and what they are having problems with.

I also hate the bellowed "SIGNS UPS." My first SPL, and everyone who followed him, including me and those who succeeded me simply raised our hands in the Scout Sign. Usually that worked, but if it didn't, in a simple, normal, conversational tone "I've got all night" would do the trick.

I would modify what Beavah said. Yes adult relationships are important, but I would focus that on the older scouts. They are the leaders in the troop, and THEY should be the role models and examples for the younger scouts. Adults should focus on the older ones.

Just my $.02 worth.

In reference to why I ask if it is still official, Sea Scouts have radically changed a lot of uniform policies that they are now mandating. Stuff that used to be allowed, i.e. insigina on the dungarees, Arrow of Light knots, OA flaps, temporary insignia, more than 6 knots, etc are now not allowed.

In reference to the Scout Shops, if they are national owned, i.e wear the gold loops and minimal insignia, then they MUST be in the current uniform and are not allowed to wear any of the older unifrom items. The only exception to this policy that I know of was those of us in a pilot program where NSD ran summer camp trading posts. Since we were 24/7 in th camp with limited access to laundry services, we were allowed to wear what we had.

Ok here is a question for you folks, especially you Vigils. Does your lodge allow out of lodge Arrowmen to attend your ceremonies, especially the Vigil ceremony? One of our Vigil candidates has a relative who is also a Vigil and I think it may be a nice touch to invite him to the Lodge Fellowship that will also include the Vigil Ceremony. PM me if you need to.

Also see my other post in the safeguarded section.

Nahila Nakne

aka

Eagle92(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Yep it's a Veteran Bar. You can get them at 25, 50 and in 5 year multiples after 50, i.e 55, 60, 65, etc. Also national has in the past allow you to buy a custom all in one patch, i.e unit number and vet bar as one patch. Don't know how ti will work with the Centennial uniform though.

Chippewa,

This is my $.02 worth and so you can take it with a grain of salt.

1) UNIFORMS I think you need to push them as they A) develop pride B) shows unity C) sets a standard,

and D)allows youth to showcase their achievements. I was part of a troop that had uniform inspections

at every meeting. They were recorded and were taken into account for a troop award "Patrol of the

Year" If you came to a meeting, you better be in either the Winter Uniform (full field uniform with

troop necker, woogle, and troop totem) or Summer Uniform (field uniform with Scout t-shirt only). We

had baseball players, bandsmen, JROTC cadets, and even a cheerleader who would show up at a meeting

after an activity and change into the Scout uniform. Also You had to be in full uniform for trips. If

you were missing something, you better be able to buy a replacement before we left, go back home and

get it, or you couldn't come. In my 11 years with that troop, only once did we tell someone they

needed to go home and get something or they couldn't go as it was expected.

In reference to the uniform pants, we did have a few Scouts who couldn't afford them. We allowed a

substitute green trouser that was identical to the BSA pants except for the BSA snap that was

available at a local surplus store. Also we had an "experienced" uniform exchange in which uniforms

were "bought" by the troop by having money placed in the Scout's account and "sold" either by

outright payment or using the Scout's account. Most of the scouts had 2-3 pairs of pants or shorts

this way.

2) OLDER SCOUTS What roles do they play in the troop and the expectations? Also what other activities

are they involved in? 14 and First Class with at least 1 term of being a PL put us in the Leadership

Corp, comparable to the Venture Patrol today. Every one of use had a POR from Scribe to Historian, to

Quartermaster, to Instructor. We had clear expectations and we worked with the younger scouts. While

the meetings were planned by the PLC, the older Scouts usually, but not always, conducted the

training. Yes we had guys who were involved in other activities and couldn't make every trip. We

worked with them though, and when the season was over, they rejoined the fold.

Another challenged was work. Some of our youth needed to work to survive, including yours truly.

Once I turned 16 and had a job, I rarely, if ever, attended camp outs because of work. And several

others were also in my predicament. However we attended the troop meetngs and passed along our

knowledge to the younger scouts.

3) DISCIPLINE I strongly recommend adults not get involved unless a safety issue is involved, or you are asked to intervene by the youth leaders. I do not remember my SM ever getting involved with discipline. That was the prerogative of the PLs and SPL. You mentioned the Scotu sign. That's what we used. Our troop ran on a schedule, with the inter patrol activity, or "game time," being near the end. that way whatever needed to be done could get done. If we messed around, game time would be shortened. If we behaved and finished things early, we got longer game time..

Again my $.02 worht and Good Luck.

Having dealt with 4 COs that had lost interest in Scouting(2 as a youth/young Scouter, two as a pro), I can tell you that it's not fun starting over. If you can work out the differences now before it gets worse, that is best. Also I would include the IH at special functions like Scout Sunday, COHs, and especially Eagle COHs.

When you meet with the IH, go with the COR, CC, and maybe a church member who is active in the unit. Play up the strengths of scouting and how it benefits everyone. Try to get more involved with church activities. One of the best ways to help the CO, recruit new Scouts and leaders, and make some money was working the church fair. We did cleanup as a service project, and the committee and parents ran a food booth.

Also find out what type of experience the IH had with Scouting, and if negative, try and change it. We had an IH who took over after we had just transferred COs about 2 years before. She had no experience with Scouting, didn't like the fact that we excluded girls despite the fact we tried to talk up starting a coed Explorer post, and viewed us a threat to the church's youth program since many of the active church members were involved with the troop.

You don't want to get to the point my troop got to with it's 2nd CO. Relations got so bad that the IH actually called the police on the troop because we were "taking too long" cleaning up the hall after an Eagle COH!

If you do wind up having to search for another CO, my advice would be to get IN WRITING that the CO give up the unit number, and allow the troop to keep the equipment. Most times the CO doesn't really know what you have and don't care. Also 99% they won't mind passing the number to another CO.

Good Luck

In reference to Cub Scouters (and Webelos in the tan and Green uniform too for that matter), according to the PDF link I posted earlier, They will need to have the tan and green numbers as well.

It has been speculated that the CS numbers will go to Blue and Gold, but I don't see it happening as they would then need to make Venturing numbers as well.

Personally I think that once volunteers and parents start complaining how they can't reuse the numbers from CS on the BS uniform, and distributers start complaining about inventory, and challenges with resuppling the assorted numbers, they will go back to one set of standarf numbers. After all, Supply did do away with the CS and Sea Scout Specific numbers once before.

In reference to these CS in the link above, What the HECK? They are not follwoing the program.

In refernce to CNYS, is your council part of a pilot that national is doing? i've heard for several years now that national was going to bring back Lions as a program for Kindergarteners.

AH camp school, remember it like it was yeasterday. It is an intense week with lots of fun. I did COPE Director training and we started very soon after registering and placing stuff in tents. Long days and nites, so be prepared. I only had one night off the entire week, as did most of the camp, because of weather.

Ditto all the advice given previously an HAVE FUN!

Eagle92

The accident insurance that the council purchases for each activity. Sorry I should have been more specific. If you are a leader on a council activity, say a council camporee, and you allow youth in the bed of a truck and one falls out and breaks something, then you are on your own as the COUNCIL'S policy for that activity will not cover it.

I don't know about individual unit insurance as I've never had to deal with it, knock on wood. But I would read the mouse type on the policy as I bet there are exclusions on it. From someone who has used the unit insurance, I am told it's worth the extra money.

FScouter,

The G2SS is the rules. Don't follow them, you are out of luck.

Just reread post and noticed THE most important training hasn't been done; Youth Protection Training

WHAT THE HECK IS THIS WDL'S PROBLEM. You mentioned that no one has BALOO training, and it hit me: Are they even filling out tour permits? I know that has been a problem in my neck of the woods, but during training, we emphasize the importance of the paperwork and how it CYA.

Not only would I push training, I would strongly talk about the legal and liability aspects of what is going on. Trust me I had to deal with 2 YPT issues as a pro, one was complete idiocy on a veteran Scouter's part that led to his permanent membership revocation. Second case was a brand new 18yo ASM who hadn't gone through training yet, and still though he was one of the youth (he turned 18 the week before summer camp and I do not know how it played out once I reported it to the SE). And BSA insurance will NOT cover you if you screw up and not follow BSA policy. Had to deal with one of those issues.

My opinion on retraining is this: if you haven't used it in a while, you need to retrain. Also if you've gone through an older training program, serve on training staff of the newer program to see what the new stuff is about. Also it is a great benefit for new leaders to have someone whose "been there, done that, got the knot" serve as a mentor.

Since it's been 10 years since I went through CSBLT and I haven't really used it directly, I plan to go through some of the CS courses this year, and probably be on staff for a few of them since I find out Thursday who the new CS trainer will be. Hopefully I won't be volunteered again. Also I took SMF in 1992, and to keep up to date taught NLE, FS, SM Specific, and IOLS.

We pay to be leaders through registration.

We pay for uniforms so that we can set the example.

We pay for supplies to provide a quality program.

We pay for the activities so that we can put in practice what we teach in the meetings.

We pay with time taken away from out families, especially those who don't have kids in the program.

Now we will have to pay for our magazine that provides us with a wealth of information?

I am so glad that this Scouting habit of mine is legal. LOL!

Speaking as someone who is addicted to scouting (26 years overall) and cannot wait for his oldest to be a TC next year (I will be redoing CS training this year to prepare for next year), I understand why you want to be a TC DL. Thinking about possibility of being in your shoes where you want one position, but are needed in another, I know the situation sucks. I don't envy the situation.

That said I think you need to be CC, pending approval of the IH and/or COR. That way you will be in a position to begin changing things. Don't expect miracles overnite, but focus on the liability stuff first and work you way down. I would also promote training, and depending upon how big your district is, you may be able to get your own training session primarily for your unit, but others invited as well. That's how I went through CS training in '98: I started 3 new units and had my CS trainer do a special session in the spring for them. And since I needed CS before going to PDL-1, I also attended that session.

I also think that you need to get some help to reorganize. If the DC is useless, go to your RT staff and CS Training staff for advice. If you are familiar with some of the volunteers who are no longer active in your area, try and recruit your own UC who has alot of CS experience. that way they can mentor and coach the pack's leadership and won't be viewed as a threat.

Nike has a very good point in dragging the unit forward: mention the liability issues involved. TRUST ME, BSA will NOT support you if you violated policy, i.e no tour permit, youth in bed of a truck, etc. Lost one of the best leaders in my district due to him not following policy and an accident occurring. Insurance would not cover the Scout because there was no tour permit and he was in the back of a truck.

One thing I have seen happen and stressed when I organized units was an active committee is there to support the leaders and make their job easier. Committee members handle the finances. Committee members handle the advancement. Committee members recruit new leaders. Committee members deal with the charter process with the UC. Leaders need to deal with the Cubs, not the paperwork. the more people involved in a committee, the easier the job is for everyone.

But until you have someone to ease the burden off your shoulder, you have an irksome task and weighty responsibility ahead of you.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Well I dated a scout leader while I was in the UK for three months. Met her when her troop as attending camp. And she was a Queen's Scout.

Scoutmaster Fundamentals 1992

Exploring Basic Leader Training 1996

Cub Scout Basic Leader Training 1998

Venturing Leader Basic Leader Training (as a trainer) 1998 (national told us to use the EBLT syllabus and supplement with the new Venturing handoutsas they hadn't created a proper Venturing syllabus at that time, Oct 1998).

I also had Dis. Com training the first time in 1995.

While the DE and professional staff will not get involved, you can ask for some advice and reference. Just don't call them up at 1AM in the morning as some one did to me way back when. DE are required to have a district operations manual that cover a ton of stuff. Sorry but i can't help you out there as I gave all the individual component to my volunteers when I left to join supply.

Another resource would be a national scout shop. Local council distributorships don't always keep everything that a national shop requires. And a lot of of the literature is available.

Foto

That's one reason why you want to promote refresher courses, and in the case of YPT you take it every two years if I'm not mistaken. Well I've taken it that often since I've been in and out of councils for the past few years due to job and my records aren't always transferring over. YPT is so easy to do online i don't mind.

I suggest leaders taking refresher courses in the form of working staff at training. That way they can impart their invaluable knowledge on new leaders and keep up to date with new policies and procedures.

V,

Dis.Com., Dis. camp. Chair, and unit commissioner are district level positions and can't really do anything within a unit. Also a DC cannot be REGISTERED as a UC as the UCs work for him. But if his UC drops out, has problems, etc, then the DC has to step in.

While I know of leaders wearing 2 hats, i.e. me being both a UC and Dist. Training. chair at one time, it is discouraged, but allowed in some cases. Trust me it's not fun wearing two vitally important hats at the same time.

Now within a unit, if he is the COR and CC, then yes he does have the power to hire and fire leaders, ask scouts to leave, etc. Only one person can overide him, the IH. That is BSA policy as the IH, COR, or CC all represent the CO which owns the unit. Also it is allowed for one person to hold two or more of those postions, per BSA policy as they essentially do the same thing: represent the CO to the unit. Usually it's someone being the COR and CC, but I know of one pastor who was die hard Scouter who did all three postions, AND went camping with the troop, depending upon how far the troop went and how early he would have to leave to make it to services.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

Well with all the changes that have occured with the Sea Scout uniform, as well as the implementation of the centeniall uniforms, you never know.

Also FYI the Stetson Camper, BS and CS Rover, and Adventuer hats are 60% right now from National scout shops and supply.

In reference to appeals, IF an Eagle candidate appeals to council or especially national, they will side of caution and grant the candidate his request. This is not only for those candidates who are disabled or didn't get the EBOR withing the 3 month window after their 18th birthday, but in any case. Don't remember the specifics as it was a while back, but one candidate challenged his SM's decision to say he wasn't ready for his EBOR and not sign off the requirement.When the scout went through the EBOR anyway and was denied becasue the SM Conf. wasn't signed, he petitioned all the way up to national and got them to overrule the decision. Left a lot of people ticked. Another case that sounds similar to the one originally posted also got petioned all the way up to national and was approved. Also left a lot of people ticked with the district's EBOR chairman stepping down in protest.

Congratulations on the new position. Best thing I can suggest is borrow your DE's copy of the District Operations Manual, aka "RED BOOK" as it will have descriptions and information not only on your job, but the all the comittees. I believe the book you will want a copy of is entitled "The Distict" and is contained in the redbook. It has the exact requirements for your job, and some general advice.

I also suggest you attend the District Committee workshop that your council offers. 1) it is great training, 2)you make great contacts with other district chairs, and 3) keeps you up to date with what is goign on.

GoodLuck

While Bob White is correct in that a dual registered Scout/Venturer or Scout/Sea Scout can have requirements for BS rank signed off doing crew/ship activities, unless the leaders of both groups are comfortable with this arrangement, there will be problems.

I'll give you an example of what one Troop/Crew combinations did. The older scouts and young leaders wanted a Venturing Crew instead of a Venture Patrol, because there were more opportunities to do things, i.e the bronze, gold, silver and ranger awards as well as scholarships/camperships for activities not available to scouts (at least at the time). The chief instigator was a hyperactive 18 y.o. ASM, who met with the DE to find out about it, come up with proposals, crew bylaws, etc. go the other Venturing age folks behind him, then presented it to the CR/CC.

Here is how they worked it out. The crew would be all male for a specified period of time in order to get it started and dual registered with the troop. It was encouraged that you wait until Star and held a troop POR before joining the crew. Since a lot of the Venturing awards required learning and teaching advance skill, the crew members would be responsible for teaching these skills to Scouts in the troop. Since the members were dual registered, they met every week with the troop. However since they tended to be older, when the troop broke into "patrol corners" that was when the crew met. They would meet outside of the troop as needed, about once a month, went camping with the troop every month, but had their own special trips they planned about once every three months, usually around the college holidays. When summer camp came around, most would work staff when we went in council. When the troop planned an OOC summer camp, both the troop's PLC and the Crew would work together to find a camp that offered both normal activities for the younger scouts and high adventure activities for the crew. Also the crew voted to keep the crew's necker as part of the uniform, with a Venturing centered on the troop's patch.

If this sounds very familiar to old timers, that's because the Venturing youth modeled how they wanted the crew to work on the old Leadership Corp program. The youth wanted this and the youth set it up with no pressure from the adults. In fact only one adult with any connection to the troop knew what they were up to, and that was me. And I was in another part of the country as a DE when they did this.

In reference to adult leadership, originally the SM was the CC of the crew, and troop's CR/CC took over as crew adviser. To be honest they didn't do much except sit back and watch these young men do their thing and make sure it was BSA compliant.

Venturing Crews can be a wonderful asset. You do need communicate with the other leaders and develope a relationship.