Eagle92

Someone said something about First Aid. I think it should be required for First Class. In two experiences as a youth, when something happened and people discovered I was a Scout, they expected me to know first aid and take over. Luckily I did and everything worked out OK.

I do not think ANY of scouting's skills are archaic. Far from it they teach independence, self reliance, team work, and leadership. I've used those wilderness survival skills I've learned, and not just to get the MB. I've used the first aid skills. I've built fire in the rain and had someone light the sucker in the rain with one match. If the program is properly run, youth want to do these "archaic" things and have fun. There are youth out there who do not like Xboxes and what not. they rather DO something.

OK I need to modify some things because the other posters are correct. The Scout should talk to the adviser on this matter first. I suggest he review the Life to Eagle workbook, or whatever it's called today, and if possible a copy of the advancement guidelines I recommended earlier. Also letters about the process from current eagles help as well. Warning; sometimes adults do not take seriously scouts, or even young adult leaders, so he should be prepared to be dismissed. Happened in my case discussed previously. If that happens, then the the Scout write a certified letter to the District Chairman and CAC discussing the problem. Again letters of support from current eagles helps.

If he is dismissed again by the CAC, then have the COR get involved since he is a district committee member and council exec. board member, even if he knows it or not.

Yes I had the DAC dismiss my objections to failing me on my EBOR because he didn't approve my project. Fortunately for me the previous DAC, the one who did approve my project was on the board. After discussing the reasons for failing me, the entire EBOR sent me out of the room for further discussions amongst themselves. The DAC was NOT happy as I did pass.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Ok is this from the District Adv. Chairman (DAC), or the Council Adv. Chair (CAC)? If the DAC, then I would have ALL the recent Eagles, as well as your son complain to the CAC about this process that, if I am not mistaken and someone please correct me if I am wrong and the policy has changed, is the DAC micromanaging. I don't have a copy of the Advancement book in front of me, but if I remember correctly once it's approved and the DAC signs off,then it's approved and the DAC doesn't have much input until the EBOR. Now if the DAC didn't sign off initially, then there a problem.

Now if the CAC is causing the problem, see if your unit has a copy of the current advancement guidelines

http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/ItemDetail.aspx?cat=01RTL&ctgy=PRODUCTS&c2=BOOKS_LIT&c3=LDRS_TRAINING&c4=&lv=3&item=33088 and get your COR to ask why he is adding on requirements to the service project. Using the book to support his argument.

Sorry to ramble on, but this is a pet peeve of mine. I had my project approved and completed within 6 months of getting Life. When I go for my EBOR 4 years later, the DAC tried to fail my EBOR since he didn't approve my project. I had to tell him that once it was approved by a DAC, the project was approved and that nothing states the current DAC has to approve the project, only that the paperwork is approved, completed, and turned in with the application.

Edited for clarification, spelling, and for first response.

If the adviser is a troop leader, then he needs to back off since this is the Scout's responsibility. Further once the project is approved by the DAC, then it's full steam ahead with the scout being responsible. Adults may offer advice, but the Scout doesn't need to take it. The Adviser has no right saying the signatures are no longer valid.

My advice is to have the scout make multiple copies of the project workbook. BE Prepared.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

Once upon a time the AOL was worn on the left pocket under the rank. My 8th ed. shows it half on the pocket, half on the pocket, 9th has all the way on the lefty pocket, and 10th half on, half off.

In reference to inflating clothing for swimming, YES scouts do have opportunities for open water boating activities, besides Sea Scouts. My first 50 miler was while I was a scout and involved canoeing in open water. Sea Base is available to scouts, and with council HA sea bases. like the Pamlico Sea base in NC, there are more open water activities where inflating clothes would be valuable skill you hope you won't have to use.

Gaucho,

This is very anecdotal, but this i9s what I heard. Some pack or council came up with this patch and an embroidery company was making them. Someone at National Supply saw them on, saw the popularity of them, and came up with them. I personally hate them and the Totin Chip ones that national supply came up with.

yep national comes up with some crazy things. Those mentioned above are some of them, the AOL Buckle for the leather belt was anotehr one.

I do wish that the OA Lodge Chief and Chapter Chief patches would have been authorized and kept. I know a few folks who have originals, and reproductions abound

This is definately a question for the DAC and/or council AC. What will more than likely happen is that they will decide FOR the youth,especially if he has lots of supporting letters explaining why this happend and how the youth is a good example, etc, and they will decide to change it in the system at the council level. let's face it mistakes happen, and honestly it should have been caught earlier, liek when his STAR paperwork was turned in originally, it should have been kicked back then. So if you think about it, all parties: Scout, unit, and Council made an error.

We had something similar happen to a Scout. He didn't have his BOR early, but council was missing his Star and Life paperowrk. While he had his book, some of the items only had month and year, not the exact date as the computer requires. Long story short, council had to edit the records twice to make everything work withthe computer.

Well I thought about the national supply angle and ribbons since they had bars and whatnot in stock, BUT they were not big sellers and I know my store wished they didn't have to keep them in stock. But I thought I saw a knot at one time being being proposed.

As for only wearing the ribbon in the sea scout uniform, this Scouter is no longer registered with a ship, he's a district scouter who only wears his sea scout uniform, with the council level insignia, when he does camp promos on the council's sea base. He's a plank owner in it and is very proud that the council's sea base is going well, but upset that they disbanded the ship affiliated with the sea base. Most of the Time he's in a green venturing uniform.

All joking aside, I've seen photos of scouts at Kanderstag in pink. Glad I wasn't assigned there when I did the ECSP.

Got you. Yes I would like the BSA to go back to allowing military ribbons on the Scout uniform like they used to. One guy who always wore a vintage uniform always wore his ribbons per the uniform policy of that period. he was a hoot that I had the pleasure of being a scout under and working with on camp staff. I also would have loved it if one of my old council's exec. board members would have been allowed to wear his, esp. his MOH ribbon. Instead they named the Wilderness area of the reservation after him.

Hawk,

Not Sea Scout Specific, but all five Venturing Bronze Awards: Outdoor Life, Sports, Arts and Hobbies, Religious Life, and Sea Scout use miniature campaign ribbons, worn above knots over the left pocket.

Question, why did Venturing decide to go with ribbons and ribbon bars instead of knots for the Bronze Award? When I had the chance to ask, it didn't occur to me to ask the question. Now several years later it's dawned on me, WHY? Was it one of the hold overs from Exploring?

I am curious because I know of one person who has earned the Sea Scout Bronze award ribbon, but never wears the ribbon except when in that particular uniform.

Also when did they switch the design for that particular bronze award? The one I've seen has an anchor on it, but this page has the First Class Anchor on it..

http://www.scouting.org/Venturing/Awards/bronze.aspx

Thanks.(This message has been edited by eagle92)

But the passage also says "A jamboree emblem is worn above right pocket by a Boy Scout/Venturer or Scouter who is registered to attend or attended the jamboree as a registered participant or staff member."

It seems the second statement is causing the problems as it says

"Both a world and a national jamboree patch may be worn--one current national jamboree patch above the right pocket and one current world jamboree patch on the right pocket."

If memory serves and please correct me if I am wrong, at one time it was possible to wear both a WSJ and NSJ above the4 right piocket as both patches were smaller than they are today. Overtime both patches got bigger and this second sentence came about. I believe the intent was to disallow the wearing of two jamboree patches at the same time above the pocket, and not to disallow the wearing of older jamboree insignia.

Again I had to get approval from the regional director of supply (i beleive that's the title) to wear my 1995 WSJ insignia on the uniform as my boss said I wasn't supposed to wear ANY jamboree insignia on the uniform. She made the call, and got authorization.

if you can't trust supply to get it right, who can you trust

Yes, thank you vets!

Also to Gunny and other Devil Dogs out there, Happy Belated Birthday!

If anyone is going to be the "uniform police" it will be national supply. They require employees to wear an official uniform based upon the ICG. No temporary insiginia, no lodge flaps, just the gold loops, knots entitled to wear, POR patch, WC, and jamboree insignia if applicable. When I worked for national supply in 2000-2002, I was allowed to wear my 1995 WSJ patch on my uniform, despite there being a 1999 WSJ in Thailand.

Also I can tell you that there are national level pro who are wear older NSJ patches on their uniforms. When I attended PDL-1, several pros had the 1991 or even older NSJ patches on their field uniform. Saw that on our day trip to camp.

It was Holmes' predescessor, sorry cannot remember the name, that referred to "Venture Crews." That was at PDL-1 in 98, the 1998 NLTC, and later at a council meeting that he attended. Also I believe some of the literature they gave the us at NLTC on Venturing refer to the units as "Venture Crews." I told you I was an old fogey

But you are right we need to codify "Venturing Crews" because it is so close to Venture Patrols. Heck the Venture Crew/Venture Patrol naming was commented on at PDL-1 when I first heard about Venturing, and also at the 98 NLTC when venturing was formally brought out.

On another note, don't you find it interesting that the BSA used the Scout Assocoation's name for the then older youth program, Venturing, and the Scouting Assoc. now calls their older youth program Exploring?

Now to get back on topic, what are some ideas to handle the situation in the original post.

Ideadoc,

While I try to be playful in an attempt at both levity and not to come off like some posters on this board, I am serious in that if you tuck in the collar and wear a necker, you don't have the WC problem. Like I said in another post, "dang I'm old" and wear a necker with my uniform in the manner described above. Only once did I wear the necker under the collar, and I did not like it at all.

Personally I think that there are so many problems with the new uniform, that modifications will be made in the near future. While the materials may be an improvement, some of the designs changes, i.e. tech pocket, belllow pockets on shirt, no tails, the pencil pocket cutting off the rest of the pshirt pocket, ad nauseum, and their location of production are problems.

These problems are the reason I am willing to bet that you go to scoutstuff.org, you'll notice they are selling the old uniform, at full price no less.

Mr. B,

I know your a minimalist, but the WC is supposed to be the one badge that every scout, no matter what nationality, or, in those countries with multiple scouting associations, or association your in. It is to remind us that no matter where we go in this great big world, there will be a brother scout there.

Yes I was ticked initially when the requirements were dropped, but over time and after 4 additional international activities I've come to realize the importance of that little badge.

So go ahead and put it on!

The direct embroidery is your best bet. But trust me, unless someone is across the table eating lunch, they won't notice it. That happened to me at a conclave!

I do know that the SM is hoping to get a few new leaders when the 22 Webelos II cubs crossover in February. that may help out some with the troop's leadership.

As for the crew, I know for a fact that the ADV is recruiting OA members who are bored with their troops and /or want soem additional challenges that venturing offers.

yeah yeah I know it's Venturing, but when all the professional staff you knew from your FD all the way to the national Venturing Director have refered to the crews as "Venture Crews" it does kind of stick with you.

Dang I'm old

Trust me just get a new shirt as the strip is a different shade of green. Not much difference, but very noticeable. So i just kept my strip off the shirt and wear it with the gray pants. Most people don't even notice that my shirt says Exploring BSA

Lots of good advice here. Definitely talk to your son and find out what he wants to do. If possible encourage him to find a troop or crew that would interest him, stressing that not all units are alike.

I was one of those scouts that had some problems with my first troop, especially the SM. I moved on to my cousins' troop and didn't look back.

Definatley talk one on one with unit leadership, or better yet have your son talk to the unit since it should be his decision to move on or not.

in reference to more standardize training, has anyone noticed how otehr organizations are doignthis as well? I just got certified as a BLS instructor with the AHA, and essentially the class is "taught" by a dvd, with the instructor basically reviewing how the students are doing the chest compressions and correcting them if needed, adminsitering the test, and doing the skills checkoff.

I don't know, but I think not. He found out that the Crew was joining them on their Nov. campout in 1.5 weeks last nite. The challenge is that if the ASM/ADV. doesn't go, then they don't have enough leaders to go.

Another thing I advised was having the groups travel together and do some things together as needed, but for the most part have camping areas somwhat separate and some advance activities for the venturers. Then the question of YPT comes into play according to the UC. I said I don't think YPT comes into play becasue three leaders; SM, ASM/ADV, and AA (female) are on the trip.

Ok I am coming to the pros from Dover on this matter. I got placed in this situation because 1) I have experience being in a coed unit from way back and 2) some folks still see me as a DE event though I gave that up 7 years ago.

Background. We have a relatively new troop with few active and dependable leaders. Usually it's the SM and same ASM on every trip. Well the ASM has a daughter who is Venturing age and one or two of the Scouts have sisters the same age, so the ASM starts a Venture Crew and two of the Scouts are dual enrolled as well.

The challenge is that since the crew was established about 2 months ago, every time the troop goes camping, the girls from the Crew are also there as well with the ASM and the female assoc. adv. who is the ASM's wife. SM is concerend about some things happening between the two genders, but doesn't know how to discuss the concerns with the ASM who is not only needed for the troop to go camping, but is also a good friend. Both the SM and UC asked me about this last nite at RT.

Now from my limited experience, once the rules have been set, there are usualy no problems. In my old ship we got to know the girls well enough to consider them part of the group and not have any interest in them. This also seemed the way things worked out in the British scout troops I worked with a long time ago.

One idea I had was keep the units far enough apart that they are separate, but close enough for mutual support. Kinda like Kudu's recommendation of keeping patrols 100 yards apart. But then concerns of YPT come up in the SM and UC's mind.

So your thoughts and recommendations on how to advise the SM, US and ADV.