Eagle732

Don't you think an adjustable length pack would be better for growing boys? Most of the lightweight packs that I've looked at don't adjust in torso length very much. REI use to make a pack called Meteor which several of our scouts bought. It was adjustable from 14 to 17 torso inches, weighed 4 lbs, and 3100 cu in capacity. That size will fir the average kid 11 -15 years old. Seems they don't make it any longer. It was in my opinion the perfect pack for new scouts. I'd like to find a few examples to recommend to my new Scouts that: Cost less than $125 Weighs no more than 4 lbs Internal frame 3,000 cu in capacity Adjustable torso length about 14 - 17' Anyone know of any that meets these specs? (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

"If yeh want da parent-buys-a-project approach because that's the best fit for your family and values, yeh go down the street. If yeh want the boy-builds-the-project-himself approach, yeh go to Thomas54's program" Yes but Thomas54 says he's getting his butt kicked by the "Buy an Eagle Project" troops across town.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Does anyone have experience with going on outings where two units join up and go together on a camping trip? I'm not talking about meeting up randomly with another troop but actually planning and trip with another unit. Our unit has become "friends" with a unit across town that has only 3 or 4 active scouts. The boys and their SM went to summer camp last year with us and are planning on going again with us this year too. This has worked out great, the boys get along and the SM is an absolutely great guy who I have tons of respect for. This summer we will team up with another troop on a canoe trip. The SM is a good friend of mine. This is an annual trip for them, first time doing this river for us. This troop is about the same size as ours, about 28 boys. In the first case the boys are kind of absorbed into our unit but still under the direction of their SM. In the other the troops will act independently except during the canoeing and will probably verse each other in night time camp-wide games. Other than over all size of the group which in the first case is not a problem, but in the second could be, is there any other problems or considerations I should be aware of? Any body else doing this? Good or bad experiences? Things to consider?

An addition to my previous post. When I was away on my little 6 month walk-about my 1st ASM had full authority. He signed blue cards and did SMCs including one for Eagle. It's easy delegating authority when you have full faith in your ASMs.

Skip Jambo, it's over priced and over rated. Wait a few years and send your son to Philmont. And when he gets back he can tell you all about the fun and adventure he had.

"The DE's response was they are doing what and NO" Who's DE yours or the girls packs DE?

We stayed at the Troop 73 campground behind the fire station. What a treat when the siren went off 4 times throughout the night! It's a good place to camp though. The 9 mile hike took the better part of a day. It's a great test of map and compass skills for the boys. Oh and don't bother with buying the trail medals, they're cheap looking and kind of cheesy.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

It's pretty tough just to pick a backpack from a list based on weight. More important is fit and comfort and you can't figure that out without wearing a pack with weight in it for a time. Now for the Scout looking for plop camp luggage it might be ok. If you're planning on doing some real backpacking, 50 milers, Philmont, even weekend hikes you might want to do a little research and trying out packs. We have an REI near us and that's where I recommend our guys to go. They fit the boys and load the packs with weight and let them walk around the store. I use a Granite gear Nimbus Ozone 3lb 6oz which has over 3,000 miles on it. Son uses a ULA Conduit, 2 lbs even. I bought the ULA for me but didn't like the way it carried over 25 lbs.

A good SM develops good ASMs that he can trust to handle some of the load since he can't be everywhere at once. It helps to prevent burn out. Before I retired I was a firefighter and worked shift work so I missed 1 meeting a month. I just made sure I had good ASMs and communicated my ideas to them and of course my SPL. Last year I left for 6 months to hike the Appalachian Trail and my ASMs took care of business while I was gone with no problems. Our troop has elections for SM each year and they continue to ask me to keep serving. Heaven only knows why If 100% participation was mandatory you'd never find anyone to take the job.

Page 18 of the new Eagle Scout Service Project Workbook says "2. It must be clear to all donors or event participants that the money is being raised on behalf of the project beneficiary" With that in mind here's my opinion (for what it's worth) --- A "free" carwash in which a bunch of boys do a half-way job of bucket washing cars in return for a "donation." Big banner out front says "FREE CAR WASH -- Donations accepted benefitting Billy's Eagle Project and ABC Beneficiary." Average donation is $25 per car. One man give $100 but doesn't want his car washed. This seems to meet the requirement above although a Scout should be trustworthy in doing a good job. Sounds like a typical Eagle project fundraiser! --- Billy buys a shop vac, rents a pressure washer, and arranges to pay a business owner to use his parking lot and water. He and his buddies spend two weekends washing cars, charging $15 per car, the same as the car wash across town. Sign out front only says "CAR WASH" but when asked Billy tells folks he's raising money for his Eagle Project. Nope since not everyone knows Billy is raising money for ABC beneficiary. Does Billy buy the vac and rent the washer with his own money or does he take it from the car wash money? --- Billy works at his troop's annual carwash. A portion of the money raised goes into his Scout account which he designates to be spent his Eagle project. Well since Billy can't go back to the original donors I would allow it. I would encourage Billy to use the money he earned here for outings if that was the original intent. If the original intent was to fund a project then he should disclose. Maybe Billy can use this money to buy food for his crew. --- Billy knocks on doors in his neighborhood and asks if he can earn money by washing cars. He washes a few cars, does some windows, pulls weeds from flower beds and gets hired to paint a garage. The money he earns goes toward his project. Does Billy ask to earn money for Scouts or just says he wants to earn money for himself and then pay for his project and maybe an XBox? If the intent is to pay for an Eagle Project then he should disclose. Honestly I don't think Billy is this ambitious. --- Billy has had his own "mobile detailing" business and spends his weekends running around town doing quality wash jobs for paying clients. He pays for his Eagle project out of the money he makes. OK, he's using his own money, no different than if mom and dad paid for it. Billy really is ambitious. He'll be great Eagle Scout. Be nice to him you might be working for him one day! --- Billy gets a job at the local commercial carwash. He makes minimum wage, plus tips and saves his money to fund his Eagle project. See above. That was fun! How many did I get right?

Two weeks for us. We addressed the boys getting stuck with money SM224 talked about. Included in the event fee is $13 for food for a 4 meal weekend per scout. The grubmaster has to keep within that budget for his food. If they go over a few bucks they collect it from the patrol members.

Well I see a problem and rule violation. The application says you must a boy to join Cubs. Can a 12 y.o. Boy Scout join a Venture crew? He's registered in a BSA program. Of course not, he doesn't meet the joining requirements. As an SM I've had to turn away boys who were 10 y.o. because they had not been in Cubs and earned AOL, they did not meet the joining requirements. Same thing. Alejandra does not meet the joining requirements to be a Cub Scout. Nor will she be able to meet the requirements to be a Boy Scout. And there's a reason for these rules. What happens when Alejandra joins Troop 121 next year and wants to go on here first camping trip? Does she share a tent with her male patrol mates? (of course maybe they'll have an all girl patrol by then!) Does the SM have to recruit a female ASM before she can attend a camping trip? Venture Crew Advisors are trained and have a support system in place for a coed program and they're dealing with older more mature members. It's one thing when Cubs are at the meeting hall doing crafts or on a family camping trip with mom and dad, quite another when we get into Boy Scouts. At least it's suppose to be. Sorry, we have rules. Seems like the Scout thing to do is to work to change the rules we don't like instead of circumventing them. I don't see how any of this is good for anyone involved. Just my opinion.

The Osprey 48 weighs 3lb-2oz and adjusts 14 - 20 in torso length. $130 at Campmor. It will last their entire time in scouts. I prefer boys buy an internal frame, they tend save wear and tear on the tents as opposed to the externals. Unfortunately good packs and sleeping bags are not cheap. I think you could get both for close to $200 total.

I agree Abel, the professionals do not live up to the ideas of Scouting. Where does "Trustworthy" apply in this situation? It becomes very hard to be associated with a group that is lead by a bunch of hypocrites that I have no respect for. I've gotten to the point where I just have o tune out all the stuff going on and focus on my priority, my troop.

Maybe inviting a guest to speak on a subject of interest that also ties into a MB. A few months ago we had a guest who is an archaeologist talk to our scouts at a meeting. They were captivated by the items he brought to show and the stories of finding old stuff on digs. The scouts ended up getting the archaeologist to invite then to a local dig. The next Saturday they were in a field near our meeting place (that most of the boys ride by everyday) digging an early 1800's house foundation. They dug and sifted dirt and found all kinds of stuff like nails, pottery, hardware and one scout found an 1816 large cent. About 15 boys attended, 4 earned the MB, everyone had fun and learned.

BD, I though GS was all inclusive, doesn't sound like it from your experience. Even if a group is "all inclusive" not everyone will be happy and of course there's those pesky unintended consequences. This little clip is an interesting insight on how trying to please everyone never works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzDjl6ticuk

Wonder what will happen next year when little Alejandra wants to cross over to Troop 121 and Scoutmaster John Stansfield has to sign her application which states she must be a BOY? This is the shame of the whole situation. The adults are basically lying to allow this girl to be a Scout and like all lies it will eventually come back to create trouble and hurt this girl who is only doing what the adults are allowing her to do. Too bad.

Another point is that any money raised is on the behalf of the beneficiary (page 17). It seems that if the beneficiary approves the use of those funds for feeding crews than that should not be a problem with DIstrict. However DIstrict approves the project and our district apparently does not approve of using funds to feed crews. So I either fight the fight with DIstrict or go along to get along. If one of my guys wants to feed his crew with money he raised then I'll get into it with District. I personally believe it should be allowed if it's disclosed in advance, approved by the beneficiary, and is done in a thrifty way.

From another article about this pack: "Boy Scout Troop 121, sponsored by the Newman Center, has expanded to include a Cub Scout pack focused on the Hispanic community. The new group meets at 2 p.m. Sundays after Spanish Mass at Sacred Heart Catholic Church. Although it is targeting Hispanic families, its open to any first- through fifth-grade boy, Troop 121 Scoutmaster John Stansfield said. United Way is supporting the program, which means membership is being offered at a reduced cost of $25."

I'd like to hear from someone who knows about the Learning for Life program. I understand it is a separate entity of BSA. Is someone who signs up for L4L a member of BSA? Can a 12 y.o. girl become a member of a troop? The BSA Youth Application say specifically that Cubs and Boy Scouting is open to BOYS. I guess parents could fill out an application for their daughter, submit it, join a pack and attend meetings if the leaders allow it. I guess anyone can buy a scout shirt.

I had five scouts from my unit there with me during this "Life to Eagle" seminar where they were told they could not use fundraised money for feeding crews, none of them questioned it. I'm thinking we are not fighting council over this.

I'm not up on the LFL program but I thought it was a school based program. Can little Alejandra earn rank or does she have sit and watch as her den mates get their Bear badge? Maybe she'll be the first girl Eagle Scout, she's already earned her Pistol Shootin' Merit badge!

Very sad. I don't know how you prevent something like this. The newspaper didn't have much trouble finding background info on the guy.

"At a rally she attended in September, the pack learned how to fish, shoot pistols and use a bow and arrow" Wow, not only is she the first girl Cub Scout, she's also the first Cub Scout to shoot pistols! Maybe there is hope!

Knowing how much will be raised and how it will be spent on the front end might help prevent problems on the back end. Seems this new process is ripe for a Scout to stray off the reservation (either by accident or on purpose) and get banged at the EBOR. Of course how many boards are really going to turn down a candidate if he's not up to par? About buying food from money that was raised. Page 4, "Restrictions" states "Fundraising is permitted only for securing materials and facilitating a project and it may need to be approved by your council". Page 9, Preliminary Costs Estimate does note under "other" items such as food, water, gas, tool rental etc. We were told food can be purchased by parents or others at their expense or donated.