Eagle732

Thanks for your "preconceived" opinion.

The only thing we learn from history is that men never learn from history http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf Good article on the subject, page 2 has a chart. Looks like the average empire lasts closer to 250 years. Hey Beav, want to see some old people make some trouble just take away Social Security.

How about when the Scout is working at the local council camp?

What was the "minor leadership position" he held and for how long? (If the minor POR wasn't done to your satisfaction than that should have been discussed during his term) Did he do his 6 hours of service? Four months active membership? All six merit badges? Does he have Scout Spirit? Other than what happens at meetings or outings we never really know how much of the work any Scout does on his own. I would think a Scout with special needs could get the benefit of the doubt though.

When is it appropriate for a Scout to have someone other that his SM (or one of his ASMs) do the initial Blue Card sign off and assignment of a Merit Badge Counselor? When a Scout is at Jambo or Philmont? How about the SM of a provisional troop at summer camp?

Thanks Gunny! And my final signature goes on the reference letter I write to the EBOR. I want Scouts to succeed if they want to earn Eagle.

fred8033, After attending the district training for the new Eagle program, reviewing the work book and having a long discussion with my troop's Eagle Advisor (or is he a coach now?) we have worked out this solution which I feel is reasonable, workable and benefits the Scouts. I am not willing to play "fetch the rock" with Scouts over their project. I believe the vast majority of boys want to do the best they can with their projects but I have also had a few try to get by with less than the bare minimum. So with that in mind this is the solution we've come up with for our scouts. The new Eagle workbook pages 1 - 10 is the proposal. The troops CC and SM (me) review the proposal and sign on page 10 if it's acceptable. Pages 11 - 16 is the final write up. On these pages the in depth planning is done, this is where the concern is since the proposal and final plan may vary greatly and no one would know until the EBOR. This is where the next review and approval is required. That comes on page 17, the Fundraising Application. Every Scout in our troop fundraises and/or has materials donated so they need this signed by me. And I'm happy to do it but I need to know exactly what you intend to do with the money so I need to review your work book. They also almost always need a tour permit since they all do projects away from the meeting hall. Again I'm happy to send one off to Council but not until I know exactly what the Scout is going to do. After all I'm responsible for the project being done in a safe manor and in a safe place since it's now part of the unit's program. I will probable visit the location before submitting a TP, just like I do when we camp in a new place. So between these two required signatures I figure I'm going to looking at the project's final write up at least once. The Eagle Coach and I will make recommendations if needed at this point. Finally there's my signature on page 20 stating that the requirement meets Eagle requirement 5. Did the scout do enough to show leadership? I don't sign here until I know we have a project the Scout is proud of and will be approved by the EBOR. I've got 5 boys working on project proposals now, everyone understands this and is OK with it. We do this to set the boys up for success instead of playing "fetch the rock". It would certainly be easier on me and my Eagle Advisor let the EBOR deal with substandard projects but I'd rather not set the boys up for failure and I'm not willing to let Eagle projects be reduced to a small service project.

We still do a Pre-Project / Final Write-up review, signatures are required, all within the new policy as I read it.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Gee, I thought the question was "Does every boy deserve Eagle?" Apparently that really wasn't the question. So what's the question now, should your son have been awarded Eagle without your permission?

Well I've never been surveyed on selling popcorn but our council has linked selling popcorn to summer camp camperships for the first time this year. "DId your unit sell popcorn?" and "Did you sell popcorn and if so how much?" are both questions on the new form.

I'll answer your question too. In my opinion NO, not every boy who is awarded Eagle deserves it. I've seen a very few cases where the system is manipulated (mostly by parents) to allow a boy to receive the Eagle rank without completing all of the requirements. Parents doing most if not all the work on Eagle projects and merit badges signed off under questionable conditions (Scout works at summer camp and comes home in 5 weeks with 15 MBs and even other staff are questioning it), are two things I've seen. It's sad but true, fortunately it is a rare occurrence. Once the Eagle is awarded there's nothing that can be done, just accept it. The cheaters cheapen the rank of Eagle.

You could date when each of Eamonn's choices would have been a typical parent response. 2010's - A/ phone the DE and report that this horrible man should not ever be allowed around young people ever again" 1990's - B/ "This is a clear case of verbal abuse, I'll phone children and youth services. 1970's - C/" "I'm going to punch that skinny little fellow on the nose!" 1950's - D/ "Why did he yell at you? What were you doing? Where were you doing it? When did it happen?

Thanks, 4-1/2 foot it is! We already have some 4' and 5' paddles so I'll fill out the order with the 4-1/2 footers.

Are all the campsites 300 feet apart?

Thanks to everyone for the great input on paddles and PFDs. I have one last question concerning paddle length. The old Canoeing MB book says to measure a paddle by standing next to it and matching the length between your nose and chin. For my son that would equal a 5' paddle. ScoutMKE mentioned that that was too long of a paddle. The new Canoeing MB book says to place the paddle in the water up to the throat while you're sitting in the canoe, the top of the handle should be at your shoulder. Well since it's February and a little too cold do be sitting in a canoe I'm going to try to figure this out by simple math. The paddles I have all have a blade length up to the throat of about 20". Figure I'm sitting about 6" above waterline. My son (representing an average sized scout) sitting in a chair has a measurement from seat to shoulder of 22" Total length is 48" I figure I need 4' and 4-1/2' paddles. Sound reasonable?(This message has been edited by Eagle732)(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

My own personal policy is that I don't text, email or Facebook scouts. I email scout's parents weekly with a newsletter that I ask them to share with their son. Any other communications can be done with a phone call or in person. I think texting would be a fine way of communication with scouts but I think the SPL or PL should be the one sending the texts to scouts, not adults.

After discussing with my ASMs we've decided to purchase PFDs so we can be sure the boys have good quality safety equipment. We are considering Cabelas Adult Deluxe vest and Carlisle paddles. The vests go on sale in the spring for around $10 each. Cabelas has a "Government Outfitter" department that units can sign up for and purchase products for 10% off. The spring discount is a better deal though.

Does anyone require their scouts to provide their own PFDs? Considering how fit is important it seems it would make more sense to go this way instead of buying one size fits most or various sizes and hoping we have enough of the correct size to cover everyone. We could just require scouts to bring a Type III, properly fitting PFDs, most could probably borrow one. After all we go on bike hikes and don't provide a helmet for each scout, they have to bring their own or they don't ride. Never had a problem with compliance. Troop policy is that everyone wears a PFD and must be swimmer certified. As far as regulations go we will not be operating at night or in waters greater than 2 miles wide. MD requires a whistle, it does not require a throwable. PA requires neither (troop is actually located in PA, we boat in both states). Lots of great ideas on brands and places to find a good deal. Thanks!

I need to purchase new paddles and PFDs for our troop's 8 mixed matched donated canoes. What type paddles (plastic or wood) and what size/length is common for troops to use? What brand and type of PFD do you recommend? I'm looking at Type III. Can you recommend a source to purchase these from?

I bet pizza by the slice would sell big time. I could see a line all the way down the trail!

Interesting idea. I could see having a troop trading post during summer camp selling candy, cheap pocket knives (and Bandaids), even neckerchiefs so the boys can buy a replacement when they lose theirs!

Big difference in getting a crew of youth to implement changes for the sake of a form than the adults of a troop or pack. I'm sure their general impressions are spot on. Sounds like you have a "Gold" crew irregardless of what some form says!

"Not talking program here folks...." OK, then how about facilities to hold a high adventure program at? COPE course, rock climbing wall, trails with remote campsites. You know, something for the older scouts to do. Oh yea, and flush toilets.

A challenging high adventure program for older scouts.

I think Phil looked at the calendar.