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Scout wants to be in OA, SM does not

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  • #16
    I don't think that the OP is saying that the SM is against OA or that the CO is against OA, rather that there is only one Scout eligible. That said, I am still wondering about the commentary concerning other Troops. If all of the troops are not having elections or not producing eligible candidates, how is the Chapter functioning? For that matter, how is the District functioning?

    Comment


    • #17
      Crisco,
      Do some homework. Do you know someone (an oldtimer)that is well respect from that District who you can talk with who knows this SM, and any history that he may have with OA. Depending on the background you get on the SM, you could eother approach the SM and discuss the situation, find out his true feelings, and try to find a solution to the situation,

      OR

      If there is a known issue with the SM & OA, refer to the Lodge Advisor about approaching the CC & CO and see if they can be any help. Maybe they do not know the SM is doing this.

      JTSwestark laid a lot of groundwork at getting our Chapter back up and running. Jack definitely influenced my in getting back involved with OA when my sons became involved. As stated in one of the posts,communication and educations are paramount to having a good chapter. Two years after Jack stepped back as CA, I moved into the postiton. Jack, we still have an issue with one of our SM always having a reason to not hold an election. I'm tempted to have an election/promotions team make a presentation at Fall Camporee if there is a common dinner, or go out to the campsites, then ask the scouts (SPL's) about setting election dates. Sort of an end round, but what is a SM to do if his unit is truly a boy run unit.

      Crisco, good luck, & keep is informed on what happens.

      YIWWW
      ASM915

      PS: JTS, 2011 Lodge dues???? LOL

      Comment


      • #18
        CalicoPenn, "It is fairly rare but there are some church sponsors that are opposed to fraternal and masonic-like clubs and consider the OA to be on par with them so they just don't allow it."

        Interesting, what denominations would these church sponsors be?

        Comment


        • #19
          Gary, I know some (not by any means all) Missouri Synod Lutheran congregations feel that way. I have heard Wisconsin Synod Lutherans (even more conservative than MO Synod)have that policy but do not know first hand.

          The objection is to societies which require their members to make oaths. This is the same objection some Christians have to swearing an oath in court. Matthew 5:37 concerning "let your yes be your yes and your no be your no." Also related to the commandment in Exodus to "not take the name of your Lord in vain."

          I'm a Brotherhood member of the OA, so I'm not getting into the right or wrong of the viewpoint, simply providing an explanation.

          Vicki

          Comment


          • #20
            The Wisconsin Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Synod are quite conservative - the Wisconsin Synod opposes participation in Boy Scouts and you can find various statements to this effect on their web site. I can only imagine how they'd feel about OA. The Missouri Synod is much more conservative than the ELCA, but they do participate in Scouting to some extent, although they seem a little bit uneasy about the idea that you can tell people they can do their duty to God in any way other than as a Christian.

            "In 1944 Missouri made two decisions that proved disastrous to their relationship with Wisconsin: it discontinued opposition to the Boy and Girl Scout programs, and it granted approval to the practice of offering joint public prayer with church bodies not in doctrinal agreement. Wisconsin could demonstrate that both decisions constituted departures from longstanding synodical conference practice."

            ""We maintain," said one-time synod president, John Brenner, "that the scout program still contains elements of religion, that it perverts the teachings of Holy Scriptures; and that, therefore, the Scriptures bid us to avoid it." President Brenner said that in 1945. We must still say that in 1986. That's where we still stand. "

            The oath objection is something that definitely comes from Jehovah's Witnesses.

            All of those organizations, though, oppose Scouts for some reason, and they aren't chartered organizations.

            The Missouri Synod does seem to be ok with OA - I found this quote from 1962 - "The planning meeting for the 1963 NOAC was held December 27-29, at the University of Illinois in Urbana. An agreement with Lutheran Missouri Synod had been reached on changes to the Order of the Arrow Vigil ceremonies."

            So I don't know of any chartered organization that in principle opposes the OA.

            Comment


            • #21
              Thanks for the kind words, Eric! Those were tough but gratifying days.

              Keep looking for alternative ways to get the message out! Nice job as always Brother.

              I'll get my dues in soon, before I return for either Ordeal or Vigil. I registered with my new council's lodge ... Very different up here!

              In Service,
              Jack

              Comment


              • #22
                The SM is not against OA, he just does not support it. He willing to let the scout to join OA, but doing the election is dificult since he does not control the troop.

                The Troop is LDS, so no Elections, the patrols are sort by age(11 years olds, 12 years olds). The patrols meet differenet nights. The SM does not mind scheduling the election, but the other scouts will not show for one boy election.

                BTW my son is the only one in his patrol(age group).

                Comment


                • #23
                  Sounds like the lodge advisor needs a little creativity. E.g. stop by with the chapter reps on a campout or combined activity.

                  I definitely can relate to the boys not wanting/remembering to attend special meeting just for elections. We tried that this year and it was a flop.

                  You may need a little leverage, e.g. ice-cream/pizza night, to throw in the mix.

                  Regardless, if the lodge figures out how to solve the issue with this one troop, it sounds like they may succede with other troops as well.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    rdcrisco "The SM is not against OA, he just does not support it. He willing to let the scout to join OA, but doing the election is difficult since he does not control the troop."

                    Not sure what you mean by "he does not control the troop." are you talking about the Scout or the Scout Master.

                    rdcrisco "The Troop is LDS, so no Elections, the patrols are sort by age(11 years olds, 12 years olds)."

                    What do you mean by "no Elections" while the youth leaders (SPL) are called/appointed by the CO IH. Other positions such as PL are usually elected by the youth. And elections for OA are always held, there is no other way.


                    rdcrisco "The patrols meet different nights. The SM does not mind scheduling the election, but the other scouts will not show for one boy election."

                    True, the 11 year old patrol or new scout patrol meets on a different night from the main troop (12 & 13 year olds) however for most OA elections in LDS units elections are held on the night the main troop meets and are only held with the 12 & 13 year old scouts. While the 11yrs could attend the elections they usually don't. In a properly ran LDS unit no 11 year old scout would met the guidelines for induction into the OA as they have not attended a long term camp at that age.

                    Tell the SM to hold the election on the night the main troop meets. This would also me a good time for the Varsity Team to hold their election. Also while there may only be one boy who in voicing interest all eligible youth should have a chance to be elected then they (the youth) can decide to participate or not.

                    My guess is the youth don't know what the OA is. This was the case for my boy until he went a worked at camp. At which time he learned what it was about, asked to have elections held and then went on to serve two years as the Lodge Chief.

                    I would also contact the local Lodge and see if they could send some of the LDS youth and an LDS OA advisor in the lodge to conduct the elections and talk about the OA program. This way you have someone who knows the LDS program and can answer question on how the OA will supplement unit program.

                    rdcrisco, "BTW my son is the only one in his patrol(age group)."

                    My experience and guess would be that your son is in the 11 yr old scout patrol. This often happens at this time of year as the boy transition to the Young Men program from the Primary program when they turn 12 and join the main troop. And no ones moves up from the Webelos program due to birth dates being later in the year.

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