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Convicted, registered predator attends Troop fundraiser

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  • #76
    The general rule throughout the U.S. is that the party in legal possession of the realty has the authority to determine what other persons may enter the property and under what circumstances unless the discrimination is unlawful, such as on the basis of national origin. Legal possession includes gratuitous possession by consent of the owner.



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    • #77
      Hmmm, does selling them a ticket to attend an event on that property constitute a contract that the person would be able to have access to the event as long as they are behaving themselves?

      Stosh

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      • #78
        Relevant quotes in a recently settled sex abuse lawsuit against a scoutmaster convicted of molesting four boys in his troop.
        http://www.startribune.com/local/south/258046491.html

        From the victim's attorney:
        “This courageous survivor and others like him are hopeful that the Boy Scouts of America have done and will do, a better job warning, informing, and telling the truth about the known hazard in scouting, namely that sexual predators are drawn to scouting,” attorney Jeff Anderson said.

        From North Star Council
        “Child abuse is intolerable. We are deeply saddened by this case and work continually to ensure that this never happens within the Scouting program."
        Today Scouting is one of the safest places for children in our community,” the statement said. “We are constantly strengthening our systems and safeguards to keep it that way.”

        Lest we forget.
        Last edited by RememberSchiff; 05-06-2014, 05:42 AM.

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        • #79
          I have observed a similar situation in my extended family for many years. A 19 year old "man", molested his little six year old cousin.

          This occurred at a family reunion, the kind of situation with many people around which many reasonable people would consider public and safe. He still found a way to trick this little girl into going into a bathroom with him alone. The actual molestation was very brief, but it follows her today.

          Now, 13 years later, this has caused a huge rift in the family between those who insist forgiveness = trust and those who are more realistically cautious of him. I have been berated myself for not trusting this person around my own little daughter.

          I have seen this precious girl, who did nothing wrong, unable to attend most family Christmases and events because she is quite reasonably unable to be in the room with him. Please put yourself in the shoes of a molestation victim. How would you feel in a room full of people laughing and treating this person like he did nothing wrong. I was treated this way myself in high school after an attempted rape that landed me in the hospital, so I can identify with the heart pounding panic that goes with being around someone who hurt you this way.

          There is a very good reason why so many people regard child abusers and rapists as irretrievable: they are. Sexual abuse, especially of children, has a very high rate of recidivism. The facts support the feeling that these people can never be trusted around children again.

          I have a raw nerve about people who demand trust of abusers. In almost every case, they are not putting themselves in harm's way. I'm tired of listening to the overbearing old lady in my own family demanding that I trust a known molester with my daughter just because he's a relative, and that by refusing to take my eyes off my child at family events that I'm not really a Christian. That's spiritual abuse. Holier than thou old lady isn't risking her own safety to prove what a great testament to Christian forgiveness she is, she's putting my 1st grader in harm's way. I have very little patience for people who use kids and risk their safety to show off their holiness.

          As a mom, I owe my child protection. I can't defend her against the many dangers I don't know about, but I sure as hell can defend her against those I do know about, and there's not excuse for me not to. I give my little child the benefit of the doubt that she needs protection, not the "man" who shows no evidence of rehabilitation.

          If the molester doesn't like being under suspicion for the rest of his miserable life, he can pound sand. No one held a gun to his head to make him assault a little girl. He didn't steal medicine or food out of necessity. There is no reason to feel any sympathy for a molester. There are no extenuating circumstances for this kind of crime.

          I can't rely on the wife of an abuser for accurate feedback on his rehabilitation. Spouses of abusers are frequently abused themselves, and will often lie, deny, and justify just about any behavior from their abusive spouse.

          My sympathy is with the child who was raped, who deserves to be in society without fear or contact with this person. My sympathy is also with those children who might be assaulted in the future. A child abuser cannot be trusted around kids. It shows incredibly poor judgment for this person to attend a Scouting event.

          Legally, I think the venue would have every right to ask him to leave. As a parent, I hope they would do so.

          GA Cub Mom

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          • #80
            Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
            Hmmm, does selling them a ticket to attend an event on that property constitute a contract that the person would be able to have access to the event as long as they are behaving themselves?
            Nope. Refund their money and throw them out.

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            • #81
              BSA's problems with sexual predators are largely attributable to people looking the other way. I think erring on the side of caution and keeping convicted pedophiles away from kids would be the safe way to handle things. I would guess if people at the fundraiser knew the truth that a pedophile was in their midst and leadership wasn't going to do anything about it, many would have left.

              You have to wonder what's best for the future of scouting. BSA needs to fix its image, and having pedophiles around is not that way to do it. Stories like this are going to send parents running for the exits--that's a fact.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Merlyn_LeRoy View Post

                Nope. Refund their money and throw them out.
                Well, maybe next time the scouts will do more due diligence in finding a different place to hold their fundraiser if they are so overly concerned. I don't know of many churches that will throw people out. As a matter of fact, I haven't found one yet that would. On the other hand if this is the church fundraiser the boys are helping at for service project hours, maybe they should find something other than a church that is more in line with their values.

                Stosh

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                  Well, maybe next time the scouts will do more due diligence in finding a different place to hold their fundraiser if they are so overly concerned.
                  Who the hell are you talking about?

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                  • #84
                    Reading the back-and-forth between JBlake47 and Merlyn_LeRoy, I can't help but think of this scene from The Big Lebowski:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVnqQn7KWY

                    I still think it would have been more reasonable for Mr. Dundas to write a check and send it to the Troop rather than show up for the event.

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                    • #85
                      What you and I think is reasonable is not part of the issue. Mr. Dundas is a free man who can do whatever the law allows him to do. I may not like it, but I'll defend whatever freedoms he's entitled to by law. And not knowing what state law says where he is (it varies from state to state) "reasonable" may be a word that is no longer part of his vocabulary. Knowing what I know about his world, I just thought it was nice he and his wife were supporting the program. Period.

                      I also think Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, and Kind, mean a lot to me, That's 1/3rd of the Scout Law, I don't think should be set aside to accommodate one's biases.

                      Stosh

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                        What you and I think is reasonable is not part of the issue. Mr. Dundas is a free man who can do whatever the law allows him to do. I may not like it, but I'll defend whatever freedoms he's entitled to by law.
                        And if he's thrown out of a fundraising dinner, his freedoms haven't been infringed.

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                        • #87
                          I know, buddy, I'm with you on the Scout Law. They mean a lot to all of us. Maybe we should just put this thread to bed and move on with some Scouting?

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                          • #88
                            Hi! I know Dundas! I was a scout in the Troop during the time of the molestations, and I watched him go to prison, and I watch the entire troop fall apart because of what this disgusting man did. I AM SURPRISED THERE IS EVEN AN ARGUMENT HERE! HE HAD SEX with children in the Boy Scouts. And he also was generally a pervert around children, I know, I was there. I was horrified when I found out he was at the fundraiser. No argument. That man may have done his time but he has no business being there. I would have kicked him out for sure. Disgusting!

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                            • #89
                              So you hold a pancake breakfast open to the public, Are you going to screen every person through the door? you can't


                              Our troop deals with sex offenders every time we work the food bank. Safety Safety Safety, Buddy system always and they all know they are not to have contact with any of the folks out side of scouting.


                              Does it worry me? No more so than their trip to school every morning past the 3 sex offenders that live in our neighborhood.


                              The only thing we can do is make our children aware and teach them to react when it happens and recognize what is going on before it happens.


                              Bottom line for me, in the OP was. A troop member called the news outlet, bad move and poor taste. The Wife showed poor judgement bringing him to the event. Not sure what the predator was thinking, but again poor judgement.

                              I am gonna bet a million bucks that if you sell christmas trees, spagetti, popcorn or candy bars you have sold to a sexual predator or child molester.

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Basementdweller View Post
                                The only thing we can do is make our children aware and teach them to react when it happens and recognize what is going on before it happens.
                                No, that's not the only thing you can do; you can also bar individuals for cause from attending pretty much any event you run, so if you know of any sexual predators or child molesters, you can bar them. You don't have to, but you can.

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