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  • #46
    My advice to DeanRx is to remember that he does not serve the organization. He serves the unit and the boys and families which compose the unit.
    Otherwise, "I can feel his pain". (sorry, that just slipped out)

    With only one or perhaps two exceptions that I see, it looks like forum members on both sides of the issue at least can unite in disgust with the 'leadership' displayed yesterday. Kudu, some of your biting commentary on corporate leadership development would be well-received just now.

    But there is another point to take away from this (you know me, always looking for the bright side of things) - We can all ask ourselves the question with crystal clarity now, no matter how we feel about gays: "Are these guys REALLY the reservoir of wisdom and the central authority whom we want to dictate membership policy to ALL of us?"
    Is there anyone in these forums who does NOT think they could make a better moral decision for themselves than the BSA leadership has just demonstrated?
    CAN THERE BE a clearer demonstration for the need for LOCAL OPTION than what we've just witnessed?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by SR540Beaver
      Look, I have my gripes about how national and local councils operate as much as the next scouter. But the BSA is between a rock and a hard place right now. It's obvious......at least to me....that the possible change in policy is financially driven. BSA has always enjoyed support by the business community. Many of those businesses are politcally correct because to do otherwise would make them a target of activists just like the BSA. So in order to keep vocal customers happy, said businesses start telling the BSA that until they change their traditional ways, they can no longer support them financially. BSA has to make a decision of how to keep the lights on and starts mulling over the change. The other side of the equation is that the majority of the charters are churches....some of who might support the change and some who might not. Now they have to consider how much loss of membership they might incur as opposed to how much financial support they are losing. It's a tightrope they are walking. I would assume that the delay is due to having heard from the rank and file membership who say they will leave. I don't envy the decision makers.

      I totally agree. National is in a no win situation. I think the local option, though, is the only real choice. It is a compromise position, where both sides get something. I wish that national had just made the decision, not just assign to talk in another committee.

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      • #48
        If we go with the original "news" that the BSA was going to talk about ending the Gay ban was leaked by an entity other than the BSA, it shouldnt surprise us that the vote was delayed. Something like this should be decided by as any people as possible, not the Executive Board but the Voting members of the National Council (Hope I got that right). No matter what occurs, serve your unit, its the best threrapy I can think of

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        • #49
          While I am also a bit annoyed at the delay, I have to say I do not have a huge problem with it, as long as the final decision IS made in May with the voices of the entire voting membership at the National Meeting, and not by a small sub committee. EVERY council has representatives that vote at these meetings. The big issue now is for the local councils to make every effort they can to get the feelings of their ACTUAL members. The local executive boards should make this a priority, and IMO should also do individual community soundings OUTSIDE the local members. Each council could then go with a pretty good idea as to where THEIR council stands, even though it is impossible to please EVERYBODY. At least, if the effort is made locally prior to the vote, then we will have come as close as possible to a reasonably accurate response. Even with all the hoopla going on in the media, it is amazing how many local scouters are still completely oblivious to the whole thing; and very few of the scouts seem to have any idea, even now. Of course I am not making a troop boy survey, and only responding to those parents that bring it up. That is the way it was, and still will be in our unit. Deal with issues when they become distractions and really are problems.

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          • #50
            Our SE was interviewed on the local news last night...said the phone calls he's receiving are overwhelmingly for the status quo. Not that it's his decision to make, of course...

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            • MomToEli
              MomToEli commented
              Editing a comment
              Ours did, too. One area Troop apparently wrote a letter to National in support of the change and that information, along with the unit number, was also on the news. Nothing like sticking your kids right out in front. Maybe that is less risky if you are taking the PC position?

            • Nike
              Nike commented
              Editing a comment
              And, here's a photo of kids being shoved out there on the other side.

              http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/08/a-merit-badge-for-bigotry/?hpid=z3

          • #51
            A Scout is Brave. A BSA Executive Board Member?? Not so much.

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            • #52
              I think National made the right decision to delay the vote. The news leak has put everybody into an uproar. The Southern Baptists made the case for the delay so they could mount an organized objection. I have no problem with that. Anything else would have appeared unfair. I agree with Clark Green's position that he takes on his website. There is time for more debate. This thing has been simmering ever since the 2000 Supreme Court decision. We can wait a few more months.

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              • #53
                I'm thinking this has something to do with FOS. Your going to make half mad no matter what, might as well get the money before they leave.

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                • #54
                  Originally posted by Nike
                  They don't need to ask every Scouter or parent. They only need to ask about 1500. Do a scientifically valid survey of the local unit volunteers and another of the parents. However, are we all going to be preapred to accept the survey results, whatever kind they might do? PS: If my math is off, Stats was a long time ago.
                  Cool! So we can dispense with the whole popular vote vs. electoral college / democracy thing and just have the president elected by a scientific poll of a percentage of the electorate.

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                  • Merlyn_LeRoy
                    Merlyn_LeRoy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Isaac Asimov already did that; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_(short_story)

                  • Nike
                    Nike commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I must have missed my BSA ballot in all the e-mail. But then, BSA isn't a democracy of any stripe, is it?

                    I was commenting due to the fact that the most motivated on both sides are going to flood the comment process, very likely not giving a statistically accurate picture of the general membership's thoughts. But, then there are lies, damned lies, and statistics, aren't there?

                • #55
                  Tech error

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                  • #56
                    [/SIZE]


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                    • #57
                      Originally posted by ogrethetop
                      I'm thinking this has something to do with FOS. Your going to make half mad no matter what, might as well get the money before they leave.
                      Yes there are already council saying things to the effect of "you have an opinion on this one way or the other, if so, put your money where your mouth is.

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                      • #58
                        Thanks Mike, as a Catholic Scouter, I've been waiting for some direction from the NCCS. I'm happy with their statement.

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                        • #59
                          James Dale has chimed in, in case anyone is interested.

                          http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-did-i-challenge-the-boy-scouts-anti-gay-policy-because-i-am-a-loyal-scout/2013/02/08/346ebab2-7159-11e2-a050-b83a7b35c4b5_story.html?hpid=z3

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                          • #60
                            Was just wondering. If the BSA does allow the local option, how far could a gay Scouter rise in the ranks of leadership? District?, Council, National? or will they be restricted to the local level only?

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