People who want to act out will do so in the most efficient means at their disposal.

This is why the issue of the attacks does not die when you take away guns, making gun control a red herring when considering acts of mass violence. It's sure an attractive scent to track, but it doesn't lead to a solution.

I think violent culture and overmedication are some big picture issues to confront that lead to a more reasonable solution. Leaving the vulnerable and innocent unprotected through gun free zones is similar to the gun control issue in that it changes the efficiency of the attacks, but does not affect the cause of the attacks.

I remember back in the days when my two sons started to playing combat video games. That was back when those kinds of games were still new and crude, but they eventually were playing these games for hours. After a few months, their mom and I notice that our sons general mood after became more hostle. So we put limits on the games and the time they played. They balked at first but even they saw what we were talking about once we start pointing out their behavior after too much video gaming. So yes, I think we as a society are some of the cause and can make some changes to help our youth.

By the way, this isn't a guns discussion. It's a mental health discussion.

Barry

"Back in the day," boys ran around with toy six shooters and tommy guns and created lots of violent scenarios...

We sure did, but we never saw any blood or flying body parts, and we didn't have a reset button so we could do it all over again. You crash or die ... no big deal ... just reset. Next time, find a meaner way to kill the other guy. If you get a really messy one, show it to your friends.
Sounds like perfectly innocent fun for 3rd graders to me.
BDPT00

Contemplating why we live in a seemingly increasing violent world...

The video games contribute to be sure and then I turned on the TV to relax, after seeing the state of New York passed its newest gun law I saw an ad for the Movie "Gangster Squad" bullets flew, that followed an ad for "Django Unchained" and more bullets flew, one scene shows the hero? shot another man, in the heart while the shooter laughs. 12 minutes of TV Show (I think Sheldon Cooper is a stitch) then more ads, "Texas Chainsaw Massacre 3-D" Leatherface is back! Did he ever leave? How many Chainsaw movies is that?. Then "Jack Reacher" beats and was beaten and then Bond's latest "Skyfall".

And we wonder why we are so violent

Does Life imitate Art or does Art Imitate Life?

Marshall McLuhan is right, The Medium is the Message

So having guns so widely available that they easily fall into hands of people who shouldn't have them isn't the real problem, violent video games is the real problem?

Well then we could start by asking the NRA to pull the shoot-em-up app they just released (on the one month anniversary of the Sandy Hook shootings no less).

Until the NRA and gun owners understand that guns are part of the real problem and that guns have got to be part of the discussion, then we aren't going to really get anywhere.

Until the NRA and gun owners understand that guns are part of the real problem and that guns have got to be part of the discussion, then we aren't going to really get anywhere.

It's certainly an attractive scent to follow, isn't it?

What is sufficient gun control? Would Adam Lanza's mother still have been able to get guns under your idea of sufficient gun control? If so, does that mean the only solution is no legal gun ownership? What other means of murder are available to people? Maybe they'll start driving trucks through parades instead of targeting schools and theaters with a gun. That would be efficient and deadly.

Where there is a will, there is a way. The problem is the will, not the way.

>>Until the NRA and gun owners understand that guns are part of the real problem and that guns have got to be part of the discussion, then we aren't going to really get anywhere.

"Until the NRA and gun owners understand that guns are part of the real problem and that guns have got to be part of the discussion, then we aren't going to really get anywhere."

And just who sets the gold standard in gun safety training in America?

http://training.nra.org/

Training Department
From beginner to developing competitor, the NRA Training Department develops safe, ethical, responsible shooters through a network of more than 93,000 instructors and range safety officers, more than 5,200 coaches, and more than 1,700 training counselors. NRA Training Counselors recruit and train instructors to teach NRA's basic firearm courses. NRA Coaches, in turn, develop competitors at the club, high school, collegiate and national levels.

Hunter Services
With over 2.3 million members who hunt, the NRA offers hunters a wide range of programs addressing all aspects of hunting, including youth hunter skills, advanced skills training and the conservation of our natural and wildlife resources. All Hunter Services Department programs work toward the common goal of instilling and promoting the skills and ethics that will ensure the continuance of America's proud hunting heritage.

Women's Programs
It hasn't always been easy for women to break into the world of shooting sports. But now with organized programs for women, by the women of the NRA, it's as easy as can be. Whether a woman's interest is personal safety, gun safety, gun knowledge, marksmanship, hunting, or recreational or competitive shooting, the NRA has a variety of programs and activities that all encourage female participation at all skill levels.

Youth Programs
The NRA helps America's adult leaders and national youth serving organizations set up shooting programs, introduces the first-time or intermediate shooter to a lifetime of recreational and competitive opportunities, and develops programs for NRA youth members and NRA-affiliated youth clubs.

Gunsmithing
NRA short term gunsmithing schools offer courses on topics such as general gunsmithing, bluing, stockmaking, checkering, engraving, and parkerizing. More specialized courses focus on topics such as accurizing the AR-15 rifle; accurizing varmint rifles; fine tuning single-action revolvers and long guns for cowboy shoots; accurizing the Colt Model 1911 pistol; and English Gunsmithing. Law enforcement armorer classes are also offered.

I believe they do more than their part for responsible gun ownership and use.

(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Here's the difference - I'm not implying that guns are the only problem, nor am I suggesting that violent video games aren't part of the problem.

I'm saying we need to discuss all of it, guns, video games, movies, family, mental health, schools - the whole kit-and-kaboodle, and stop treating guns like the 1,200 pound gorilla in the room that everyone tiptoes around.

As for the NRA, no doubt, the non-lobbying arm of the NRA does a lot of good - unfortunately, the lobbying arm of the NRA, with it's rigid black-and-white views of the issues, makes the entire organization look bad.

So now that President Obama has signed 23 Executive Orders that don't take away anyones guns (as the fear-mongers were claiming), what do folks think of the administrations plans?

>>I'm saying we need to discuss all of it, guns, video games, movies, family, mental health, schools - the whole kit-and-kaboodle, and stop treating guns like the 1,200 pound gorilla in the room that everyone tiptoes around.

Ahh, so the issue is that violent video games are causing mental health problems, is that it? I've only seen one study trying to showing a correlation between violent video games and mental health issues, specifically addiction and depression, and there are concerns about the methodology used to come to it's conclusions, and it didn't try to make a link between gaming and violence.

"Ahh, so the issue is that violent video games are causing mental health problems, is that it? I've only seen one study trying to showing a correlation between violent video games and mental health issues, specifically addiction and depression, and there are concerns about the methodology used to come to it's conclusions, and it didn't try to make a link between gaming and violence."

That's rather asinine isn't it? Coming to a conclusion about the subject that ignores the topics discussed by previous posters in order to insinuate that discussion of the topic is silly sure showed us.

We get it. You think that people are motivated to carry out acts of mass violence because they have a readily accessible means in guns to carry out acts of mass violence.

This thread looks to discuss what role violent culture plays in the motivation for people to carry out acts of mass violence.

Your explanation of motivation is the available tool.

This explanation of motivation is emulation.

For 50 years now I have been hearing the rhetoric that violence on TV, in the movies and now video games on how they contribute to the violence in our society. However, that is not true, it contributes to the insensitivity towards violence and it makes the ability to perform such horrendous acts like school shootings that much easier.

The chickens have come home to roost.

Just like the training of our military personnel. They take someone who who may naturally abhor violence and turn them into a killer. It's not that difficult to do. Yet, over the course of many years and a couple of generations we have accomplished the same thing to the general society in which we live.

In the non-gun regulated society of the 1860's people were horrified at the body count of the Battle of Shiloh 20,000 men lost their lives in two days. The public was stunned, yet within a year 23,000 killed at Antietam in one day was more acceptable. And by the time the 3-day Battle of Gettysburg occurred, the public could handle 53,000 killed. In 3 days of Gettysburg more men were killed in all of Vietnam. This process ran its course in a mere 2-3 years. But the losses counted up and eventually, it was not really a big issue anymore.

While the loss of 20 children shocked our country, the millions of lives lost through abortion doesn't even cause a blip on the radar as it did 30 years ago. Society changed and while some think it's a good thing, others do not and thus the debate goes on.

When it comes to guns, the debate will go on until one side or the other wears the other side down and eventually all will become insensitive.

What is abhorrently shocking today will be "normal" in a few short years. It's been happening slowly over the course of many years and will continue to do so until either our society implodes on itself or someone calls for some common sense (which isn't so common anymore).

Stosh