If I were King of the BSA

[BSA24 10]

JMHawkins, you have my vote for King of the BSA.

[BartHumphries 10]

As to #8, Tenderfoot through First Class is essentially a repeat of Wolf through Webelos. If a person knew their Cub Scout stuff forward and backwards (granted, most don't), they'll blow right through T-1. Personally, I think a policy of repeated learning should be required. Most of the Tenderfoot through First Class items can be recited/performed within an hour by someone who's really ready to do that. Each rank after First Class should require an hour where the Scout runs through those requirements again.

 

For instance, the Scout should have been tying square knots since Wolf, sheet bends and bowlines and two half hitches since Bear, etc. It should be relatively simple for a 14-year old Scout who's presumably known those knots for the past seven years, half of his life, to tie those knots during the BoR or Scoutmaster conference. If somebody is new to the BSA, then they have a bit of an extra challenge ahead of them, but they have to learn them in the first place, right?

 

I would also say that a person couldn't get their Eagle before their 14th birthday. Seriously, nobody remembers what they did when they were 12 if they've never engaged in those activities again in their life.

 

As far as #9 goes, what if (to make an extreme example) the Aryan Nation wants to sponsor a Troop? There's a good reason that some policies are not "choose your own adventure."

[JMHawkins 15]

As far as #9 goes, what if (to make an extreme example) the Aryan Nation wants to sponsor a Troop? There's a good reason that some policies are not "choose your own adventure."

 

I never said BSA would accept anyone as a CO, I just said it would defend the membership policies of the organizations it does accept. I'm pretty sure that would be a requirement of any sort of Local Choice policy.

 

Dean

 

Don't know about Mike Rowe as Chief Scout, but a marketing campaign featuring well known and respected celebs and other public figures that were / are scouters would go a LONG way to combat the "scouting isn't cool" image and help both retention and fundraising.

 

Yes, that's the idea. I'm not thinking of Chief Scout as reviving Green Bar Bill's position so much as making it an ambassador's position, selling the program to both kids and adults. So when BasementDweller's football coach tells his kids Scouts are wimps, they look at him and think "this guys' an idiot. Mike Rowe isn't a wimp."

 

Seattle

 

Yes, I think Tigers are focused on fun, and that's something maybe the rest of the program should have more of. My own son is just about to hit Webelos II, and the AOL requiremnts can be pretty dry at times. Seems like the Webelos program could do with more fun.

 

But I'm also sensing a large amount of burnout in the den - from the boys, parents, and leaders. Maybe it's the fun, maybe it's the length of time in the program, maybe it's something else. I just don't know what.

[Eagle92 110]

Hawk,

 

With all due respect, no one, emphasizing NO ONE can ever fill Green Bar Bill's shoes. He did so much, was such a vital influence to scouting and generations of scouts, that no one can come close to him. All we can do is try to live up his patrol methodology. 'TRAIN THEM, TRUST THEM, LET THEM LEAD!"

 

Now I agree we need some heavy hitters to be Chief Scouts. Mike Rowe has my vote. Not too knowledgeable on modern pop culture, I gave up cable TV when I could no longer afford it and being in the boonies I don't get regular TV thanks to the FCC switching to digital and basing their reception ranges on 30 foot high antennas. So I don't really know who else would be a good candidate.

 

 

[Tampa Turtle 1011]

I guess we keep saying Mike Rowe because we have Bear Grylls envy. Funny I have heard boys in USA respond to Boy Scout smack by saying Bear was the Chief Scout and "he is beast". I have stopped correcting them that he is the UK guy...but yes they need a hero. I think THAT would need to be vetted carefully for obvious reasons.

 

I would keep RichardB even if for a dissenting opinion. BSA=CYA for a reason. I think I would get re-lawyered around these BSA issues.

 

Agree on uniforming cost and quality ideas. Agree on advancement "roll back"--that would be a HUGE culture change.

 

Be more transparent.

 

Drop learning for life.

 

Keep Tigers but revamp program. Other than go-see-its the program is BORING for boys.

 

I like some of the stuff I have seen in the UK program; the skills seem more naturally skill based and build on each other.

[BartHumphries 10]

"I never said BSA would accept anyone as a CO, I just said it would defend the membership policies of the organizations it does accept. I'm pretty sure that would be a requirement of any sort of Local Choice policy."

 

So... one of those parent groups gets together, starts a troop and it turns out that the parents are all members of the Aryan Nation. The BSA will now be defending that membership policy? How extensive will the new background checks be that the BSA will be conducting and how deeply will the BSA be defending its CO's membership policies? That may be an extreme example, but that's the reason Target, for instance, gave when they turned down the Salvation Army's request to put a bell-ringing Santa in front of their stores, that the Aryan Nation had wanted to solicit and that they couldn't find a way to avoid lawsuits without saying no to everyone.

 

With the current policies, the Aryan Nation would never sponsor a Scout troop. But with a "choose your own membership policy and we'll defend it" stance, it could get really messy fairly quickly.

 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (15.5%), the United Methodist Church (14%), and the Catholic Church (11%) together have 40% of the registered Scouting youths and they actively support the current policy. Enough other churches also support the current policy (such as many Lutheran, Baptist, and Episcopal Church - United States congregations, although not all of their congregations, since those churches have sort of split stances on the topic) that the number of registered youths whose member organization actively support the current policy is well over 50%. Out of the remaining member organizations, most of them don't care. No organization is going to change a basic policy when over half of its members don't want the policy changed and most of the rest don't care. Some people have said, "Well, I'm Methodist and I care and don't like the BSA's current stance." Ok, do you care enough to change troops or to otherwise do something to make your "vote" (voice) count?

[blw2 433]

Re. Tigers being "boring".... to a point i agree, but it has a lot to do with the leader me thinks. That's an area where our DL did a nice job. For the regular old in the classroom meetings, she brought some fun games and stuff.... some from her days as GS leader, but she tried to keep that under wraps from the boys!

It's tough finding fun things to do that don't take a lot of money, time, or preperation to get going.... for 5-10 minutes wirth of fun.

 

Agreed about the fun progressing to more and more adventure as the boys get older. i haven't been exposed to the rest of the program yet (well since I was a kid anyway), but I do recognize that boys now days need more to get them going with all that they are exposed to daily. I really don't see a problem for .22 rifles (that's gun powder) for Weblos 2 aged boys. that falls right in line with the OP's statement about rules that don't apply to real world. there are plenty of Weblos aged boys (and likely even younger) that hunt with real shotguns and rimfire rifles. I can totally see boys that age wanting to do adventure zip lines, repelling, canoeing, etc...

 

Re. the coed thing. This is something i struggle with, as a dad of one boy and two younger girls coming up behind him..... but could they still call it 'BOY' Scouts of America? I think the segregation is good, but at the same time my girls would like this stuff too! maybe have boy dens and girl dens for each rank.

[emb021 16]

Well, to add to the discussion.

 

What I'd like to see on the organizational side (not to ignore the program side, but not in this post), I would like to see the following:

 

* "professional" scouters who conduct themselves as employees of the organization and the volunteers. In other words, the volunteers should be in charge, not the professionals.

 

* transparency. We should know why things were done and decided, and by who. Tied to that, we (the members) should know who is in charge (who are the leaders at the different levels from National on down to district). This includes any committee chairs (or whatever you might want to call them). No secrecy. And tied to that, make it easier for volunteers to get on these groups. And member on this groups should be decided by the chairs, NOT the professionals.

 

* revamp the power structure of the BSA to put the power in the hands of the members. We need to look to member-run organizations, not companies.

 

* the "face" of the BSA needs to be in the hands of the volunteer leadership. This should be the National President (and maybe the National Commissioner), NOT the CSE. I would agree that having a Chief Scout who can do this (like the UK does) would be a good idea, and why I think Mike Rowe would be a great candidate for this.

 

 

[mdlscouting 10]

As far as the name "Boy Scouts Of America", other countries have changed their name when they went co-ed. "Scouts Canada" and "The Scout Association in the UK" and "Scouts Australia" come to mind, and all offer co-ed programs, alongside Girl Only scout programs.

 

I would like to see Lions and Tigers (K-1), but have them split up from the Wolf-Bear program and the Webelos Program somehow.

 

I'd love to see a single Unit / Committee that sponsors from K - age 21 from a paperwork point of view, but has the groups segmented up a bit, taking some of the stuff that works from the UK program and adapting it to what works well for us.

[Eagle92 110]

In regards to Lions,

 

HECK NO!

 

Sorry the cub scout program is long enough as is. I admit I'm partial to the old 3 year program I grew up with, but know that is a thing of the past except with LDS units.

 

I wouldn't mind going to a 4 year program, like what happened after I became a Cub.

 

But I know it aint happening. Tigers need to be the lowest age group.

[Kudu 186]

 

As King, I would rank my changes in order of importance:

 

1. Journeys and Expeditions to Replace Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Review.

 

On this issue I part company with even the most radical "Back to Basics" advocates.

 

In the rest of the world, Baden-Powell's Scouting is a game. In common with other popular outdoor games, competency is tested by progress over a Physical Distance: First Class = 14 miles, the equivalent to "Star" = 2 day + 1 night Expedition, "Life" = 20 miles, "Eagle" = 50 miles (200 by horseback).

 

Adult Guide to the Fourteen (14) Mile First Class Journey:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/hikes/1st_class_hike.htm

 

Likewise B-P's minimum requirements for the Patrol System measure competency in terms of Physical Distance: Monthly Patrol Hikes, and camping your Patrols 300 feet apart.

 

Why 300 feet? If Congress will extend our monopoly to include football and soccer, we can also eliminate the 300 feet between end zones:

 

Just do to sports what we did to Scouting: Break the game down into individual "First Year Skills," and sign them off in a week of summer camp (with no re-testing).

 

These signed off skills (running, kicking, throwing, catching) will never actually be used in a game, but understood as isolated skills.

 

In the place of a game, skills are then "reviewed" while sitting indoors in a Coach Conference, followed by job interview practice called a Board of Review.

 

All of the ideas in this thread so far ("mastery" of skills, sequential ranks, Scouts on BoRs, Mike Rowe, 1st Class in two years) are still in the box that protects boys who hate camping from ever actually applying their outdoor skills against the controlled risk that made Baden-Powell's program popular.

 

Adventure: To test your skills at every rank against a series of Journeys and Expeditions of increasing difficulty.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[SeattlePioneer 144]

As always, I'm glad to hear from our curly horned African Antelope.

 

 

He'll be seated 300 feet from the Scoutmaster Specific Training....!

 

We really do need more adventure as part of the program, though. The best experience in Scouting is when a Scout actually NEEDS to use those Scout skills (preferably in an emergency) and discovers 1) he can use them and 2) they WORK!(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

[desertrat77 1144]

Adventure in the great outdoors is the BSA's best selling point.

[NJCubScouter 1389]

With the talk in this thread about Tigers, I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Lions (a Kindergarten program which, as far as I know, is still being run in some packs in some places on an experimental basis, and I also have heard about one Lion program under the LFL umbrella that does not seem to be associated with a pack.) Now someone has brought it up. I hope this program is either kept totally separate from Cub Scouting, or is allowed to drift off into the sunset. I agree at least partially with Eagledad, I think SOME Tigers are "too young", or to be more accurate I think that first grade is when most boys are just barely reaching the maturity level needed to make a program like this work. I had very mixed feelings about based on what I saw as a parent and Cub leader (I was never a Tiger den leader.) Bringing it down a year to the Kindergarten level, when many of the boys really ARE still toddlers... I can't imagine it. I don't think it's the right way to go. Unfortunately I know the lure of "more members" is powerful stuff for the folks in Irving, and may sometimes overcome common sense.

 

So does anyone here actually know what the status of the "Lions" experiment is?

 

(For me, "Lions" still reminds me of the den for 10-year-olds that was "merged" into Webelos about two years before I would have been in it. That was a long time ago. Somewhere I still have a "Lion-Webelos Handbook", though I never actually used it.)

[ChaiAdventure 25]

that is a great list for improvement...well thought out and any or all would make a huge difference...hopefully someone in a position of power and influence is listening...

 

one of my biggest issues that you have hit on is the IT piece...

 

all Scouts and Scouters should have a "dashboard" that would follow them through their scouting "career" and capture all of their most important achievements...

 

being military and seeing a lot of scouts and scouters in transition, it would be great to have an archived record of advancement, membership, training, etc.

 

this should be easy to accomplish and would start off by the online application (seriously, are we still filling out carbon copy forms???)