Basementdweller 608 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Since OGE thinks I am being unreasonable........ I have never had a problem with too many adults on a camp out or outing so I am not qualified to answer......In the troop we have 2 adults on troop outings, not by rule but by parental choice. The situation....... Tent camping at a scout camp 1 hours drive from the CO...Boys will be camping and cooking as patrols.... Attendance is 2 patrols with 6 members each, plus the spl. How many adults from your troop would attend? How many is too many??? Other considerations??? At what point does adult participation in outings interfere with the program??? Can we all agree that the simple presence of an adult alters the boys behavior? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 lets be clear, in a volunteer organization I never thought it prudent to limit the number of volunteers Now, the volunteers have to know what to expect and how to behave. They let the youth run the show and the adults have a good time. In the troop I served, we used to have almost a 2:1 ration of boys and adults. If we had 30 youth, we would have 15 adults. Parents would come and say wow you have a lot of adults and you guys always have such a good time. We got them interested in being an ASM or a committee member. Many said, with all the people I see on evernts, I know if I get involved, I wont be the only one working. It worked for us. I have to repeat, the adults have to let the program run as it is supposed to. If a parent started to hover, a few other adults would cull them off. Had a few issues, but not many and nothing we couldnt handle had a troop in the distrct that the scoutmaster and his single ASM would show up with the troop and as the boys played they set up grand gate ways as that is what scouting is about and set up a troop kitchen and then cooked and took down the stuff on Sunday. They said they did it so often it took hardly anytime at all. Not sure they understood why we asked(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to post Share on other sites
momof2cubs 10 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I'm fine with the less is more approach when it comes to adults at camping. However, I have to say that I am becoming apprehensive as my son crosses over. Thing is I have to be able to trust the teenager that is put in charge during outings. And I have to be able to trust that the adults around WILL step in if there is some serious safety issue. The troop my son is crossing over to is highly boy-led. However, I have heard from another parent (who believe you me is FAR FAR FAR from a helicopter parent) that in one particular outing, his son's patrol grubmaster served undercooked eggs at breakfast and rare meat at lunch. Now before you slam me, I am FINE with my son going hungry because of say, not enough food (i.e. poor planning), but I am NOT fine with him getting food poisoning (i.e. poor supervision). Does that make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 >>Can we all agree that the simple presence of an adult alters the boys behavior? Link to post Share on other sites
SMT224 10 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We try to have 3 or 4 adults on a camping trip. This would be for a group of 5 to 20 Scouts. Over 20 Scouts we try to have at least 4 adults. This way if you have to drive someone to the hospital (which we've had to do!), there will still be 2 adults remaining at camp. While we have done many camping trips with 2 adults with 5 to 10 Scouts, we much prefer at least 3 adults. But there are times that only a couple adults can go. I can't imagine a 2:1 ratio & lots of parents! Usually the guys are quite happy to get away from mom & dad! Link to post Share on other sites
KC9DDI 11 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I guess if the patrols are 300 feet apart, and the adults are respectful of the patrol method and of the youth leadership, then it really doesn't matter if "too many" adults show up? Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 >> guess if the patrols are 300 feet apart, and the adults are respectful of the patrol method and of the youth leadership, then it really doesn't matter if "too many" adults show up? Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 So Barry, If your camped 100 yards from your scouts then why do you need 20 adults on a camp out???? So does your troop have a Man Scout Patrol????? Not hatin, just askin. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2779 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 20 adults? Wow, I'm not sure that we ever had even half that. If we had 10 adults, it was probably because we needed the drivers. No, we did not do the adult patrol. We just never worried about having too many adults because we were seperated from the scouts. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Yah, I reckon that even with Kudu's magical separation of 100 yards or more, there are issues. If yeh have two patrols of six and an adult ratio of 1:1, if an adult just happens to "wander by" the youth campsites once in two hours, that means the boys are being interrupted by an adult every 10 minutes. Near constant adult presence. It takes a lot of effort and buildin' an independent adult culture to keep a large number of adults from mixin' with the boys, or driving a campout to what they want to do or are interested in. A lot of that influence is subtle and hard to control. Generally speakin' I prefer to see fewer adults on trips. No more than one adult per car full of kids. Beavah Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 As long as the adults are not interfering with the patrols, bring them on. IMHO 1 adult is to many IF they start interfering with the patrols, barring an emergency of course. MOM, Quick question about the troop: was the scout in a New Scout Patrol(NSP)? I ask b/c I've seen some similar in an NSP once. Luckily it was spaghetting and wouldn't lead to food poisoning. That situation and others is why I like mixed age patrols, older scouts partner up with the younger ones. But I'm an old fogey at heart. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 In the troop I serve, we have a large number of adults who attend......but we are a large troop and we may drive 2 hours or more to camp some months. When our SM took over the troop 10 years ago, he had to literally BEG a second adult to go on the campout and that was late on Thursday night. His opinion now is that he never wants to be in that position again, so ass many parents who want to go, can. Now, we are boy led and we use the patrol method and new parents are schooled in staying away from little Timmy's campsite for the weekend. The adults function as a patrol in their own site with a duty roster and pay the same amount for food as the boys. We lead by example. My personal opinion is that I'd like it to just be the SM and ASM's on the campouts. However, when you have 40 boys going on a campout, just the SM and ASM's isn't very practical. Adults are welcome as long as they understand they are there to provide transportaion and then enjoy a weekend sitting in their camp chair in the adult area while their son scouts. Link to post Share on other sites
perdidochas 658 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We'd probably have 3-4 adults on the OP's outing. I think much beyond 4 is too many. Two, of course, is the minimum. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4345 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I am FINE with my son going hungry because of say, not enough food (i.e. poor planning), but I am NOT fine with him getting food poisoning (i.e. poor supervision). Does that make sense? Sounds like we have a volunteer for cooking merit badge counselor! Okay, I'm from an ethnicity that eats raw meat. (We try to be on good terms with the farmer and butcher so we know what we're grinding into some awesome entree`s.) But, yes, boys and food are a big concern. All it takes is one kid not washing his hands after coming from the latrine! Generally older boys have learned this so they make pretty good supervisors. They're eating the same food and care deeply about such things! But usually if it's one incident, and everyone heard about it, the older boys will make sure it doesn't happen again. So you should ask follow-up questions like when this happened and who knew and how did they change things. Often the story a boy brings home from camp omits the latter two details that would ease a parents mind! Link to post Share on other sites
resqman 108 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 It based on the number of drivers we need to get all the scouts to the event. Usually we have the SM and 3-6 ASMs on a campout. Parents are strongly discouraged from attending. The leaders act as a patrol. We have a grubmaster and cook and camp as a patrol. The Zulu patrol sets up its tents in a group away from the scouts. We use the same budget and cooking gear that is available to the scouts. Last camping trip we split the attendees into 2 groups. One group of 3 adults and 8 scouts backpacked 20 miles in preparation for Philmont this summer. The remainder of 8 scouts and 4 adults stayed in base camp. Two adults were not needed to drive but one just joined as an ASM 1 month ago and attended to better learn the troop culture. The other attended to ensure we had adequate supervision since one adult was leaving partway thru the weekend. Link to post Share on other sites
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