ONLY for the boys?

[acco40 95]

I guess when I spent my time as a Scoutmaster and Den Leader I was in it for the boys but when I spent time as a unit commissioner (council/district position) and as a council/district trainer I was not. Thanks everyone for clarifying that for me. Without your help, I never would have understood my motives.

 

As a Scoutmaster, I noticed the double edge sword - sort of like the "for the boys" phrase - of boy led. Any time parents (always untrained and of the helicopter type) didn't agree with a particular issue they would either go to one extreme and say that I was wrong in possibly expecting the boys to do (whatever) or the other extreme, that I shouldn't be making decisions for the boys.

 

Example: Annual Planning. I'd work with the SPL to gather lots of appropriate material (school calendars, state park info, list of past 5 years of outings, council/district calendars, etc.) and ask all scouts to solicit ideas and then later spend an afternoon with the PLC planning out the calendar. If certain parents didn't like the results, they would blame me for "making the boys make bad decisions." If I made camping suggestions, they didn't like, I get the "you have to let the boys decide" feedback. It didn't help when my feedback to them was that as committee members, your job is not to critique our selections but to provide support to make them happen.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Perhaps I shouldn't rub it in, but my council began gratutously paying for unit accident insurance policies for all units beginning in 2011. That was done on their own initiative.

 

I'm guessing we get a generous level of services from our council because it is doing pretty well in fund raising and managing it's finances. I'd further guess that other councils that are grasping for every buck they can and restricting the services they provide are doing that because their finances don't give them much choice.

[DeanRx 69]

To me the arguement of, "For the boys..." whether in it for them or not in it for them is a trump card of sorts that some folks like to use to justify their position and not have to listen or debate an opposing position on the merits of said position.

 

Its kind of like calling someone a racist. Once you go there, you have effectively stated that YOUR opinion is better on moral grounds and teh other's opinion is mute based on the fact that it is based on an inherent, amoral bias.... therefore, you win and you don't have to justify your own stance any longer.

 

"You're not in it for the boys" is the same as being told your racist, bigotted, chauvenistic (sp?), etc...

 

I've had a parent tell me I wasn't in it "for the boys" because I 'borrowed' two 6ft tables and an easy-up the pack owns for a non-pack function (a party) at my house. Gee, I thought maybe since I've been storing them for the pack free of charge for 3 years and maintaining them for the pack - I might get to use them once in awhile, but I guess not....

 

I usually figure if you show up and are volunteering you are in it "for the boys".... now, the whole PAID employee issue (DE on up in council) becomes a very different matter when your PAY is tied to fundraising and numbers.

[momof2cubs 10]

By the same token, saying that calling someone out on the grounds of racism (or in this case, on the grounds of not being in it for the boys) is a cop out also trumps the argument. Just because it might be overused doesn't mean it is not valid on a lot of cases.

 

I have met several adults where it is beyond obvious that they are either trying to re-create their youth or trying to do it over because they wish they had been in scouts as a youth. And you can usually tell by the number of blings they have on their uniforms.

 

The thing is however, they none of us knows what goes on inside anyone's head. Only YOU can answer the question of what your motivation is.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Personally, I consider the idea of Scouting being "Only for the boys" to be entirely bogus.

 

Scouting is an opportunity for adults to learn new leadership skills and be of service to their community and country. Scouting is quite often a way of teaching parents new ways to parent their children and to enjoy and have fun with their children.

 

Most of the adults attending my Tiger Cub Den Meetings are fathers, and a goodly many of them are learning new ways to enjoy the company of their children and of other children. Rather commonly, fathers tend to be excluded from having much of a role in parenting their children, a role too commonly left to mothers. Scouting can be a way of remedying that.

 

In the Cub Pack I've rebuilt, I have not had ANY mothers as den leaders or Cubmaster. Moms are the Committee Chair, Treasurer, Popcorn kernel, Advancement Chair and such, but men are the program leaders --- and the moms seem quite happy with that. If I had moms who wanted to be den leaders, that would be fine --- but they seem happy doing other tasks.

 

Personally, I encourage adults to wear the uniform and take care to hand out unit position patches to parents, "trained" patches and knots when they are earned. These are symbols of participation and achievement, and I want to encourage adults to participate and achieve in Scouting.

 

Frankly, I have yet to meet someone I thought was a blow hard reflected by the knots on their uniform. I don't doubt there are such people, but I haven't met them, and pejorative comments about these Scouting symbols is an attack on the Scouting program, as far as I'm concerned.

[qwazse 4344]

Ya SP, I don't see it working as a bludgeon very well. It's better used as a net:

 

"We're all in it for the boys, so what's the best we can do with our time and talents that will guide them to being caring adults?"

 

For some that's get trained.

For others that's getting a spiffy uniform.

For some it's throwing down some serious cash.

For others that's leaving some knots in the drawer!

For others it's listening closely to the youth.

For others it's explaining the program to the parents and keeping them a distance from the SM!

For others it's telling the youth, "Well that's the way it is, let's suck it up and get it done."

 

We all come into the program at different starting points. The challenge is getting as many of us as possible to grow into it peaceably!

[Basementdweller 608]

Feel a bit like a marked man.......

[ScoutNut 147]

There is no dispute that volunteers (in any organization) get something out of their volunteering efforts. As a matter of fact, in 2003, BSA published a study on just that.

 

http://www.scouting.org/FILESTORE/marketing/pdf/02-658.pdf

 

The Mission of the BSA is - "to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law."

 

The BSA's mission, it's program, and even the primary goal of most of it's volunteers, are all aimed at it's YOUTH members.

 

However, anyone who has worked in Scouting for any period of time has run into folks who are more interested in their own agenda than BSA's. That is just life.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Thank you Scout Nut ---

 

While Scouting is packaged and promoted as a youth program, it can have a variety of positive affects on adult volunteers as well. Some of those identified in the study referenced by Scout Nut include:

 

>

[ScoutNut 147]

Scouting IS a youth program.

 

There is NO programing aimed at adults.

 

The positive aspects of adults volunteering for BSA can be had from volunteering for ANY organization the volunteer is interested in. These results are NOT JUST Scouting related.

[SeattlePioneer 144]

Hello Scout Nut,

 

 

I have to disagree with you that there isn't Scout program aimed at adults.

 

Wood Badge is one example that is explicitly aimed at adults.

 

But frankly, when adults serve as unit leaders and such they are usually a part of the pledge made to obey the Scout Promise, Scout Law, Cub Scout promise and such.

 

To participate in the Journey to Excellence is to take part in a fairly sophisticated planning process.

 

The study referred to was a BSA study that said:

 

>

 

 

So there is a good record of adults benefiting in a variety of ways from the Scouting program.

 

As I noted earlier, I often find that adults find better ways to parent their children from Scouting.

 

I agree that mostly Scouting targets youth and not adults for benefits. But nevertheless the benefits for adults are real and extensive in my experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish 16]

" Scouting targets youth and not adults for benefits. But nevertheless the benefits for adults are real and extensive in my experience."

 

ABSOLUTELY!

 

It may not have been intended to benefit adults, and it may have been esigned for the youth, but it does benefit adults too.

 

I can say scouting has made my life, my approach to youth, and my unerstanding of people alot better.

 

You gotta remember that at one time, pharmacutical companies did alot of research and spent alot of time developing a drug to combat Angina( hardening of the Arteries - in case anybody didn't know).

 

Turns out it also benefitted another area problem in men that it was not designed to , nor was it planned or even considered........ They call it Viagra!

 

 

 

[ScoutNut 147]

I never said that volunteers do not benefit from volunteering. I did post the link to the study BSA paid for.

 

There is NO BSA program for adults.

 

Training is NOT program.

 

Training is what volunteers do so that we can provide the youth a better program.

 

And please, not only is Journey to Excellence not sophisticated in any sense, it's use (or lack of use) has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

[Basementdweller 608]

I have thought about this topic for a couple of days and now feel it is time to reply.

 

 

I was not an adult scouter till my son became a tiger. I did not want to be his den leader but did because no one else would, I became CM because no one else would, I became ASM because no one else would. Same goes for Day camp program director and my battle with the district about cub events.

 

 

I thought about what did I get or receive from these things???????

 

I am probably shallow and can't see the forest for the trees, but I cannot put a finger on it.

 

I enjoy the company of the adult scouters, but I also enjoy the adults in the ducati group I belong to. I enjoy the youth, but I also enjoy the neighborhood kids that I fix their bike, video games and watch grow. I enjoy the outdoors, but I think I enjoy the flexibility of travel of family and close friends to the logistics of a scout troop or patrol.

 

My last two years of scouting have been miserable, the wood badge debacle and the last round of District fights. Not sure if it is worth it or not.

 

If it wasn't for the boys I would have been gone by now........(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Eamonn 61]

Man Oh Man!!

I can't say how much this "Only for the boys." Thing gets up my nose.

Most times (Not every time) The people who say it are full of themselves and act as if they have the inside track about what this is all about.

I do lots of things which if I could be bothered I could find all sorts of grand and wonderful reasons for me doing them.

I go to work.

Why?

Yes I pay my taxes both State and Federal.

This money is used for some good and some wonderful uses.

Truth is that when I'm getting ready for work I'm far too busy watching the clock so I'm not late to give this any thought what so ever.

The money I earn feeds my family, warms my home feeds my dogs allows me to donate to who ever I feel like donating too. But when I'm driving to work I'm far too busy singing along with the oldies to think about this stuff.

At work I'm protecting my fellow citizens from the bad and nasty people who are incarcerated within the walls and razor wire fences.

Again I'm just too busy dealing with the project at hand to even give this any never mind.

 

I belong to this organization.

At some time or another I've read and am aware of what it is all about. I made the choice to belong.

While maybe there are things or parts of what this organization does or doesn't do that don't sit well with me?

The fact is that I'm still here.

If the organization were to maybe change the mission statement to something that went against what I believe in and maybe wasn't in line with my values?

I'd quit, I'd leave.

This only for the boys thing makes the person who throws it in my face sound like a sanctimonious pain in my neck.

 

For the most part I think I'm very much in line with what my pal

SR540Beaver posted.

My life is full of lots of things. Put them all together and yes you have me.

But no one thing makes me or determines who I am.

I'm a husband, a father, I have my religion, I have causes I believe in, I have my own set of values, things I like and don't like, things I'm good at and things I'm not good at.

Somewhere amid all of this I also belong to this organization. Within this organization I've held all sorts of positions and done all sorts of different things. Some have given me great joy some have been real stinkers.

Some people with more faith and maybe a deeper religious belief than what I have go on about offering all this, the good the bad and the ugly up to God.

Well! I'm sorry I'm just not that good.

While I do think and do believe that we as an organization can do good and at times do good and this keeps me around.

Most of the time I'm far too busy doing what I'm doing to stop and think about who is going to benefit from it all.

If I really thought it was going to do harm and hurt someone? I wouldn't be doing it in the first place.

Many if not most of my dearest friends are somehow, someway involved in and with Scouts and Scouting.

Sometimes I allow them to talk me into doing things that maybe if it wasn't for them I wouldn't do or get involved with.

Once I am involved I try to give it my best while at the same time also having fun and enjoying the situation and the people I'm with.

I've driven several hundred miles to sit on committees that were as close to watching paint dry as you can get.

For the boys? -Maybe? But in Eamonn's little book it had more to do with me being a member of that committee and as such I'd made a promise to attend the meetings.

So at the end of the day it was more about me and my values than any good that might have come out of the meeting for the boys.

I've served as CD for a WB course.

We can talk about the greater good, the impact that maybe a course will have on the participants.

The truth is I was so busy trying to ensure that the course was as good as it could be and as enjoyable as possible that any idea of a real living breathing kid was a million miles away from my thoughts.

There are times when I have done things that I hope have or will do good for "The Boys". - I have at times given fairly large chunks of money to the Council and have made provisions in my will to leave funds that will I hope do some good.

Ea.