Prblm: Assignment of Youth Leadership Positions

[Engineer61]

My spouse is the Advancement Chair for the Troop.

 

One thing that she has noticed is a problem with favoritism with the assignment of Youth Leadership Positions.

 

Certain Scouts, sons of the ASM's seem to roll from one leadership directly to others (sometimes while still active in the first position) while boys that need to get leadership time to get the next rank have to sit on the side.

 

One case seems to speak to this loudly...ASM and Son are on a crusade to Eagle by age 14...13 if possible. He's been in 3 or 4 straight leadership positions with no breaks...while 4 or 5 other's cannot get positions.

 

Suggestions?

[OldGreyEagle]

Lets see, Senior Patrol Leader (SPL) and Patrol Leader (PL)are elected positions by the youth. If a scout keeps getting elected, its really not his fault.

 

Assistant Senior Patrol Leaders and Quartermaster's are selected by the SPL. The scouts who "need" the Positions need to be demonstrating their committment to the troop so that when the next SPL is elected their names come to him when he thinks of responsible scouts.

 

If none of the above works, the scouts still "needing" positions should present themselves to the SPL and request to be an Instructor. Of couse, they need to have a scouting skill they want to instruct, such as knots, fire building, cooking, etc, that they can demonstrate to the SPL and Scoutmaster and then of course Instruct the troop when asked. The Advancement Chair can let the scouts know their options, but its not the Advancements Chair to secure positions, thats the youths job

 

PS

Having a scout setting a goal of Eagle by 14 is not by itself a bad thing. We want the youth to have goals and work towards them. This does also mean that the goal is attained by doing all the requirments in the proscibed manner of course(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[John-in-KC]

In addition to what OGE said, the CC does have the authority to ask the SM about matters of program and shortcomings he sees. I'd suggest doing this first offsite, away from the other unit leaders and youth, over a friendly cup of coffee.

 

It may be that the SM hasn't seen the issue arise...

[Eagle92]

As OGE stated, the SPL and PLs are elected by the youth, not appointed. SPL then selects the best folks to do the jobs he needs done. While it may be seen as favoritism, it may be that the SPL feels that the person chosen IS the best candidate for the job.

 

The scout in question should probably talk to his PL, then SPL, then SM in that order to seek self improvement.

 

 

However if there is a real problem a friendly cup of coffee may be in order.

[NJCubScouter]

Unless you have a huge troop, I'm not sure why this issue comes up. If you add up the POR requirements for all the ranks it comes to 1 year and 4 months. We don't limit it that way, and I'm not suggesting that anybody should. But even if you were to view POR's as simply an advancement requirement, there should still be plenty of opportunity to go around. As OGE points out, Instructor is a multiple position. In a huge troop, where this would be more of a problem, you can have a number of ASPL's. (Of course, as with Instructors, they should be ready, able and willing to do the job, and there should be specific tasks for them to do.) Does your troop really have all the other "staff" positions filled? (Not just Quartermaster and Scribe, but also Historian, Librarian, Webmaster, Troop Guide(s), OA rep if applicable, Den Chiefs for all the dens in the nearest pack(s), and others.) And in a large troop, where positions are more likely to be scarce, I see nothing wrong with two Quartermasters, two Scribes, etc. and possibly others, as long as there is a clear job description for each "half" of the job. (I realize some might disagree on that last sentence.)

 

There really should not be a need to have some boys sitting on the sideline and slowed down in advancement because of this requirement.

[resqman]

One thing not answered in the original post, WHO is doing the assigning?

 

If adults are assigning ANY roles then you have a much bigger problem. The original post hints that the ASM may be infearing with POR selection.

 

If the SPL and PLs are selecting the same scout repeatedly, that is a different issue.

[SeattlePioneer]

Would it be bad for a Scout to discover that he needed to suck up to the Curly Haired Boss --- I mean the SPL in order to win his support for something he wants?

[Engineer61]

"Unless you have a huge troop..."

 

I dunno, this is the only troop I've ever seen...is 60 "big"?

 

"One thing not answered in the original post, WHO is doing the assigning? "

 

Another I dunno...but if it was the boys, how would one boy get assigned to two positions at the same time?

 

"It may be that the SM hasn't seen the issue arise..."

 

I suspect that is certainly the case, since the SM is incredibly stand-offish from the actions of the troop.

 

"Would it be bad for a Scout to discover that he needed to suck up to the Curly Haired Boss --- I mean the SPL in order to win his support for something he wants? "

 

Yes...there is...if the "boss" has an agenda for his "golden child"....to extend the metaphor.

 

[Beavah]

Another I dunno...but if it was the boys, how would one boy get assigned to two positions at the same time?

 

Can happen quite easily. SPL knows Joe is reliable and a hard worker. SPL wants both jobs to get done. Joe isn't in sports or band this term, and he knows Joe is the best fellow for both jobs, and is willing.

 

Yeh don't get a job because you "need" a job, eh? Yeh get a job because you convince a potential employer that you're the best guy for the job he needs done. Is that "favoritism"? I dunno, maybe. It's also both fair and smart.

 

A lad should learn not to wait for a job to be assigned to him because he "needs" it. He should go out of his way to demonstrate to his peers a willingness to work hard and be reliable, and take on tasks that need doing without being asked. Do that, and I'll bet he gets selected by his peers for responsibility... over and over again!

 

Beavah

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Another suggestion besides Instructor positions is that the SM can assign a job not officially set by BSA up to the POR for Life scout.. Our troop use to do Web Master before it was recently added.. We had scouts organizing the hike-a-thons for the troop. I am sure that similar jobs could be popcorn or summer camp for the troop.

 

Someone organizing, locating and keeping in contact with alumni from the troop is a good assignment also..

 

If you are a very aquatic troop the troops Life guard (who not only took on the responsibility, but also lined up others to take turns with the policy)..

 

I visited a troop that had someone for the scout spirit position.. He would lead yells and cheers and organize the campfire programs..

 

Put your mind to it, you can make up many positions for those not at Life scout yet.

[resqman]

With 60 scouts, 8 scouts per patrol, that is at least 6 or 7 patrols. That means at least 6 or 7 Patrol leader positions elected by the patrol members. Plus the roles of SPL, Quartermaster, Scribe, Historian, Chaplains Aid, LNT, Den Chief, Librarian, and unlimited number of troop instructors. That is a minimum of 16 Positions of Responsibility or about of the troop could hold a POR. The ASMs son has a 1 in 4 chance of having a POR. If he is actively seeking those roles, it is likely he is able to convince the SPL he is a good candidate. Many scouts do not want a POR until they reach 1st Class since there is not a requirement for the lower ranks. If you subtract out of the troop membership because they dont want or need a position, then there is a 1 in 3 chance to hold a POR.

 

how would one boy get assigned to two positions at the same time?

Troops commonly hold elections every 6 months or year depending on the culture. Rank requirements state a scout most hold a position for a minimum of 6 months except for Star where you only need 4 months. Usually all positions, even appointed, run the length between elections. So typically, a scout would finish holding a position when elected to a new position. Holding two positions at the same time would not allow the scout to advance faster since the position must be held during the rank to qualify. You cannot stock up on PORs and apply them when you need them for the next rank. A scout could hold multiple positions and not be in conflict. He could be a Den Chief and also a Troop Instructor.

 

"It may be that the SM hasn't seen the issue arise..." I suspect that is certainly the case, since the SM is incredibly stand-offish from the actions of the troop.

Sounds like it may be a boy-lead troop if the SM is stand-offish. That is often considered a good thing. The SM may be relying on the Advancement Chair to catch double dipping on PORs and alert him. The SM cannot be aware of every action of every scout in the troop. There is nothing technically wrong with holding two POR as long as the scout is able to fulfill both roles.

 

"Would it be bad for a Scout to discover that he needed to suck up to the Curly Haired Boss --- I mean the SPL in order to win his support for something he wants? " Yes...there is...if the "boss" has an agenda for his "golden child"....to extend the metaphor.

You may be mixing the metaphor. A Scout would need to suck up to the SPL (boss) to get a POR. You implied the ASM is interfering with distribution of PORs so a scout would need to convince the ASM to distribute PORs.

 

[ScoutNut]

Along with all of those elected positions, the positions appointed by the SPL, and the unlimited Instructor positions, there is another option open to the Scouts.

 

For Star, and Life ranks, instead of holding a Position of Responsibility, a Scout can do a leadership project to help the Troop, assigned by the SM.

 

Considering all of this, there is absolutely no reason for boys to "sit on the side" if they need a POR for advancement. They need to get off their duffs, talk to their Patrol Leader, Senior Patrol Leader, and Scoutmaster. No one is going to do it for them.

 

The Troop Advancement Chair should be aware of how this works, and what is required.

[Eagle007]

I have just experienced this issue with scout son who is needing a POR for Star. He wanted to tell me that he has tried and tried to get a POR but has be passed over by several boys who have waited right up until the age of 18 and second thoughts about earning Eagle. I was actually standing with my son when the SM and another scouter told him that there would be plenty of time for him to get a POR but that these other boys really needed it worse than he did because their time was about to expire. Although I understood where they were coming from, I thought that it was a poor excuse to give to any scout, not just mine. In my opinion those other Life scouts shouldn't expect younger scouts to roll over and give in on a POR just because "I'm about to age out." They should have thought about that way ahead of time. But you know what is said about hindsight.

 

Now the flip side to that coin is that we are the largest troop in the area and there are tons of PORs to be had. Needless to say, scout son received a POR on his own after speaking with SPL. And I'm very proud of all of the scouts in our troop on their hard work.

[Stosh]

BOR Member: So, Johnny, what did you do for POR for your rank advancement.

 

Johnny: I didn't have a POR, but over the course of the past 6 months I did the work of the SPL. I did this... this.... this.... this.... this... and I also did the work of the QM. I did this... this.... this.... this... I was kinda an APL to help Donnie the PL with his patrol when I did this.... this... this.... to help him out for a while. The Scribe had basketball so I did his stuff while he was gone, too.

 

BOR Member: So you didn't have a POR? That's going to be a problem on your rank advancement.

 

Johnny: Well I did a special project for the SM, does that count?

 

BOR Member: What was that?

 

Johnny: I showed leadership in the troop where it was needed.

 

BOR Member: Oh, okay, I guess we can count that to get you by. But next time you'll need a real POR.

 

Johnny: ????

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

Engine - I'd consider 60 a big troop. That said, it probably could benefit from leadership in "there's-not-a-patch-for-that" areas. I wholeheartedly agree with the above suggestions.

 

Also is a venturing crew available to these boys? POR's while serving in a crew count. This can be more of a hassle, because ...

1. Crew officers may have a different standard for holding office. Joining a crew just because you need a POR may be a non-starter, unless the boy backs it up with real work. Upon board of review, the troop committee may need the boy to explain a crew POR in more detail than if it were a troop POR where they may have seen the fruit of his labors.

2. They boy may be intimidated by leading older youth in a crew or he may simply not want to be involved in Venturing.

3. The paper pushers at your council may be in denial about recognizing PORs from a crew if the Eagle Application is primarily through the troop.

 

Anyway, this may be an option for one of your boys if you can can coach him in 1, he can overcome 2, and you are willing to stand by the him in 3.