What Does Boy Run / Boy Led REALLY Mean?

[PeteM 10]

In your opinion, what does boy run or boy led mean?

 

I was having this discussion with one of my scouts a couple of weeks ago, and we are trying to come up with an answer that we could share with the troop.

 

Thanks,

 

Pete

[dan 10]

Scouts running the BSA program.

 

 

[kenk 11]

Yup. It means that the youth make the decisions and run the program. Scoutmasters provide guidance and the committee provides adminstration and support to ensure the program runs.

 

Unfortunately the troop my son joined has turned out to be run like a Cub Scout pack for older boys. The committee does all the planning. The troop of 16 boys camps and cooks as a single troop. Patrols exist only on paper. The senior patrol leader does essentially nothing. The patrol leaders do absolutely nothing.

 

As an ASM I've done my best over the year to change things but keep hitting a solid wall. I think the only adults that are trained are myself and one other ASM (he only attended the classroom portion of the SM training). Right now the Scoutmaster's wife is the committee chair and his son is the senior patrol leader. Of course she was also the committee chair of her son's pack - and the husband was the cubmaster. She thinks the troop should be run like the pack. She demands that our troop not "camp too much" as her husband and son are already too busy. She tried to stop one of the only real fall campout "because her daughter was moving to college". This year's program was created by the committee with zero youth input even though I asked for it several times - her response, 14 year old boys can't create a schedule. This year's program contains four nights in tents this fall (two of them because I demanded a September campout) and three nights in tents next spring, excluding summer camp.

 

My son likes it in the troop and doesn't want to look elsewhere, so I'm at the point of just learning to shut my mouth and limit my involvement. Sigh. Its just not the kind of Scouting I'd hoped my son would experience.

[local1400 10]

The troop needs a Patrol leaders Council meeting monthly. The well meaning adult volunteers need to understand how the BSA runs. If you need to, get all the literature available and show them. No wonder so many kids never get to or drop out at the Boy Scout level.Who wants 6 more years of crafts and puppet shows?

[insanescouter 10]

I will give it a shot...

 

In its most basic level it means: you let the boys plan and run their program (under the Scoutmasters guidance).

 

In detail:

 

The older Scouts who hold a leadership position should meet on a regular bases(usually monthly) to hold a Patrol Leader Council (PLC) this is the time when the Older Scouts plan out the next months meetings and campout. They plan out the program. The committee generally will handle transportation, reserving the campsite, etc. Also once a year they should meet, usually works best as part of a special event just for the PLC members, to plan out the themes and general overview calender for the year.

 

I heard this once ... The job of the Scoutmaster is to set back in his rocking chair and observe what is going on. If he has to get up then the youth leaders are not doing their job.

 

Ok now we all know that will never happen, but if you replace "Scoutmaster" with "adults" you get the idealistic way it should be. Again, that will never happen completely.

 

Our Scoutmaster tells the youth leaders "if you ever feel that I or any of the other adults are stepping on your toes, taking over your program, tell them nicely to back off".

 

It is their program to run, we have to let them run it. The way they learn is by falling down and getting back up to try again. There is one big exception to this and that is in case of safety. The favorite example is a Scout running around wilding an AX. But it could be hazing or anything else...

 

I also suggest you look at the "poor program" thread. It may help too.

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[pargolf44067 57]

For the CC that said 14 year olds can't create a schedule. We just held our annual planning meeting yesterday and a bunch of 14 year olds and younger did a great job of planning out our annual schedule with my guidance as Scoutmaster.

 

I found that going from a program that is adult run to boy led cannot happen overnight.

 

Good luck Kenk!

 

Bill

[Eagledad 2779]

>>I heard this once ... The job of the Scoutmaster is to set back in his rocking chair and observe what is going on. If he has to get up then the youth leaders are not doing their job.

[AvidSM 11]

Like Bill, I just came back from our Annual Planning Conference, but it was a weekend campout instead of one day. Both my SPL and ASPL were fresh out of NYLT full of scout spirt and fresh ideas.

 

Can 14 year olds put together a great program - you bet!

 

Boy led means the boys make all the decisions about troop activities, events, meetings, etc. They set all troop rules and policies. They direct the actions of all the scouts in the troop. They are in charge of discipline.

[insanescouter 10]

I totally agree Boy Ran will not happen over night, nor will getting the adults to back off.

 

Eagledad said it best:

>>It is my experience that the adults have to learn there part in a boy run program just as much as the scouts learn theirs because the limits we adults put on the scouts are mostly based from our fears. We can only tame those fears by teaching, learning and striving to do it better next time. That is why I say boy run is the freedom adults give the scouts. As we become better adult leaders, we give the scouts more freedom to choice and learn.

 

I wish there was a way we could send that comment to every adult leader working with a Troop...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[John-in-KC 311]

Some hats the Scoutmaster wears:

 

Mentor. I don't know of too many 14 year olds who can run an effective meeting, they have to learn how, and the SM is a guy to give feedback and coaching.

 

Moral Compass: The Troop wants to do something that is explicitly outside the G2SS. He's the last one to ask "Is that really the right thing to do?"

 

Appetite suppressor: The Troop wants to do X. X costs $N per boy, and T time per Scouter. "Where is the money going to come from, boys?" "Are there enough adults who can give vacation to cover a seven day outing and 3 days each way in transit?"

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Scout led means the young men are already thinking about all the things above. Boy led means the SM may have to step in. Adult led is when an inadequate program with inappropriate events and events which are not supportable with leader/parent time are presented to the Committee, and it has to be the bearer of bad news: The program is not supportable.

 

To me, the ultimate tests of Scout led are:

- The annual program presented by the SPL/SM to the Committee can be resourced.

- The SPL, Warranted Offices, and PLC are able to execute the program with appropriate adult support.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Aquila 10]

Freedom within form.

 

Let's not negate the wisdom of our elders in a quest for boys to completely run things. Scoutmasters are there for a REASON -- to shepherd young men into adulthood.

 

As the boys mature, they learn to make better choices. Scouting wasn't meant to simply bring together a gang of 13 and 14 year olds and let them run loose. It's about letting them make decisions WITHIN PARAMETERS.

[jambo 10]

Aquila...you definetly expressed my opinion,better then I could have. I feel this methodology is not working that well....it must be for a reason...so that scouting units won't grow strong, but stay on a mediocre path. The national is not concerened to have a few great units, but to have large amount of small, mediocre Troops who strugle to exist. You see the National get's money if they can prove that they have an increase in units, and not a decrease. Then answer this : Why earlier in our Scouting life, when it was harder to be Boy Scout , we had more boys in Scouting, but less unit. And now we have more units but less boys in Scouting ?. I am babbling away again...jambo

[Beavah 205]

The boys, not the adults, are responsible for decidin' on events.

The boys, not the adults, plan and execute the events - make reservations, budget, lead, etc. You can easily identify a boy who is "in charge" of any event or meetin'.

The Patrol Leaders (or TG's/Instructors) do almost all of the instruction.

The Patrol Leaders and PLC can sign for most advancement.

The boys, with the adults, plan and manage safety.

The boys (PLC, Patrol Leaders) can set rules, and can change the way the troop works. (ex. SPL can create new PORs and staff them, as he sees a need).

The boys, not the adults, are responsible for uniformin'.

 

Yah, Adults are like gardeners, eh? They prune and fertilize and provide support, but let the boys grow.

 

Beavah

 

[kb6jra 10]

I was once told by a pretty smart man that "a boy run troop is much more difficult to manage, on orders of magnitude, than an adult run troop"

Well, by gosh turns out he was right. It is hard to have a boy run troop.

Many have posted here the varying degrees of boy run, If you're new to the idea and it scares you, start off slow and easy, adding responsibilities along the way until you've reached boy run Nirvana, at which time all of your best leaders will age out and you'll have to start all over again...ces't la vie'.

 

We (our troop) ask our boys to:

Plan all activities. The boys come up with the ideas and places, the adults facilitate their wishes.

Run all meetings. From pre-opening or gathering activities to presentations to games, they run it all.

Hold regular PLC's. The SPL's job is to run the troop with is PLC. It's up to him when he has his meetings and how often.

Use Patrol Method. Allow Patrols some autonomy when it comes to outings and activities. Allow patrols to plan separate hikes, etc. in order to facilitate the development of leadership and meld the group into a high performance team.

Plan and Execute all Service Projects. Our troop performs a lot of service, and almost all ranks require some amount of service time. We ask boys 1st class and above to plan and execute service projects. Gives them great practice for their Eagle project.

 

We of course have varying degrees of success with these above items, but more importantly we provide the boys with the opportunity to make decisions, make mistakes (and learn from them), and make connections. It's great to see a young man take on a job and complete it, it's even better to see him learn from it and do it better the next time.

[acco40 95]

One comment - boy run is surely a much easier goal if all of the adults agree that that is the goal. If not all of the adults are in agreement, good luck.

 

The hardest thing for the adults to do is to allow the boys to fail. A few weeks ago (while the SPL and Scoutmaster were on a high adventure outing with five other older Scouts) the troop planned a meeting at the local park. Well communication was not what was needed. When I (Scoutmaster) asked the SPL about the troop meeting one day in advance, "Hey, is everything in order?", he said yes. I asked him if every one knew about the proper meeting location (we usually meet at our CO location) he again said yes. I asked him how they received this information. The SPL said by email. I asked him how come I didn't know and had not yet received an email. I got shoulder shrugs. I asked if he got an email. His response was he didn't check. I asked how he knew where we were meeting. His response was that he called the Patrol Leader planning that meeting. I asked him if he expected everyone else to call the PL. He finally said in an exasperated tone, "Dad, everyone knows where to meet. Don't worry about it."

 

Well the next evening about 10% of the boys show up at the park, 75% show up at the CO and 15% don't show up at either place. I advised sending a "runner" to the CO (about two miles away) and finally, about 45 minutes later the SPL starts the meeting. I got lots of "feedback" from adults telling me I screwed up, should have notified everyone, yadda, yadda, yadda. I have developed thick skin and just shrugged my shoulders and said they should talk to the SPL.

 

A few weeks later, communication was done on a much better level when we had a location change.

 

I did my job - they boys learned something and nobody got hurt!