New Eagle turning ASM

[lesliec 10]

I have a question that I can't find the answer to in writing except. I have young man who just earned his eagle. He's been with the troop since he was a scout. He knows all the boys very well but we're having a meeting tonight to clip his wings a little bit. He obviously doesn't understand the ramifications of him being classified as an adult now instead of "just another scout".

 

Unfortunately, I'm new to this and haven't been trained as of yet. I was wanting to know if someone could email me something I could use to have in writing to make a point with this young man. I've already had an officer (and it's NOT REAL BAD!!!) photocopy the penal code. I just want him to understand that even in "play", he could be in loads of trouble.....It's one of those things you just want to nip in the bud.

 

I was looking for some policies/procedures and came across this website...

 

Thanks......

[Bob White 20]

Have him take youth protection and Scoutmster basic training courses. I would keep him away from the scouts until he completes them (no matter how long it took).

 

I think trying to make a Boy Scout into an adult leader overnight is a bad idea.

 

 

[dan 10]

How old is this person?

[NJCubScouter 1389]

lesliec, maybe I am missing something, but I am not sure what you are talking about. I take it this person, who just earned his Eagle, also is turning 18 or has just turned 18 (which he'd have to be to become as ASM.) What is he doing that is causing you concern? When you say, "He obviously doesn't understand the ramifications of him being classified as an adult now instead of 'just another scout', I could guess at what the problem might be, but of course I could guess wrong. But in general I can tell you that when a boy turns 18 and signs the application to be an ASM, my son's troop has started the practice of taking the young man aside, one-on-one (but still in plain view, to cover all the bases) and very briefly explaining the basic facts of Youth Protection to carry him through until he actually goes for training. We don't look at it as "clipping his wings," though I am guessing that there has been some behavior problem with this young man that you think requires that his wings be clipped. Oops, there I go guessing, I said I wouldn't do that.

 

So, what's the story?

[lesliec 10]

He is 18 years old. He turned 18 in August. I was talking to the SM's wife about the situation and her reply was, "oh well, we just have to put up with him until he leaves for college". My reply was, I will NOT tolerate anything jeopardizing safety and or insubordination to an older adult from anyone. We have a new SPL and he's just learning his roles/repsonsibilities just like the rest of us.

 

But, there's not anything that I can pull from the Internet to have in black/white for tonight?

 

LC

[NJCubScouter 1389]

lesliec says:

 

But, there's not anything that I can pull from the Internet to have in black/white for tonight?

 

You still haven't really said on what subject you are seeking information.

 

The Youth Protection Guidelines are a document that might be of use to you but I do not know if it is anywhere online as a standalone document. It really is intended to be handed out at Youth Protection Training as a reinforcement for the video and discussions during the training course.

 

You might, however, start at this page:

 

http://www.scouting.org/media/ypt/ypt-online.jsp

 

It is part of the BSA National web site. In turn it points you to the web sites of councils that offer Youth Protection training online. The actual guidelines may (or may not) be at those sites. Perhaps your council is on the list. Be aware however, that in at least some councils that do offer YP training online (including mine) a leader is NOT considered YP trained until he/she has taken the course in person, and then the online course can be taken every 3 years to "renew" your trained status.

 

By the way lesliec, you say you are "new," have YOU had YP training.

 

And by the way, since this doesn't happen every day, let me say that I agree with BobWhite's statement, "I think trying to make a Boy Scout into an adult leader overnight is a bad idea." I have been quietly advocating that thought in my son's troop but it doesn't seem to go over very well. The minute a boy turns 18 the SM and CC are shoving leader applications and ASM patches at him and telling the boys (including the ones he shared a tent with last week) that they have to call him "Mr." Whatever. I think the reason is that nobody wants to "lose" the boy and the feeling is that if he "graduates" from the troop and cannot participate until he is "ready," he will never come back. I know some people think that an 18-year-old can remain a "youth member" (but not for advancement purposes) until recharter, but that idea does not prevail in my troop, or from what I understand in my council either. And even if that were the case, it wouldn't solve the problem of the boy who turns 18 three days before the recharter date, which was the case with the last such young man in my troop. (I can call it "my troop" because I am just a committee member, nobody is going to think that I think I own it. It owns me.)

[orennoah 11]

I guess I'm a lucky Scoutmaster. I have two excellent Eagles who turned 18 and became ASMs. The Scouts respect both of them and they knew, without being told, what was expected of them when the "crossed over to the dark side."

 

Both are excellent examples of the maturity that the Scout program can promote. One of them, uses his triple palm status in his role as the ASM-Eagle advisor. He's helping our Life Scouts with Eagle project ideas and such.

 

Both are Youth Protection trained, as we do not allow any adult to accompany the troop on any overnight activity without YPT. But I don't think that that's what led to the self-imposed separation. I think that it was that our adult leaders accepted the newly-minted adults into our midst. They became members of our group and stood apart from the Scouts, like we do.

 

In short, I think that it was another example of leading by example.

 

As for the problem posed by the original poster, it appears that intervention is in order. The SM needs to pull the new ASM aside and make the behavioral expectations and limits abundantly clear.

 

Good luck.

 

- Oren

[FScouter 24]

The problem hasn't yet been stated. How is YPT the solution?

[lesliec 10]

The problem is really multifacited....

 

#1. The SM or myself have been trained as of yet. We took over the troop to keep it from dying. There is SM training mid-month in May we will be attending. So, since January, we've been learning quickly and asking scout masters in the area for guidance.

 

#2. This young man, who is a good kid at heart sometimes gets unruly......He needs to understand that the rough-housing that wasn't as bad before he turned 18 could now be a felony if he injured one of the younger scouts....(injury to a child)

 

#3. The other night there was a drill on fire building. They were supposed to be working with the Tenderfoot scouts and build the fire with flint & steel. They were doing the speed drill on who could burn the string in two fastest. This fire should've been no bigger than 8" in diameter!!!! We had set them up the caliche parking lot about 20' from the end where they had plenty of fire protection around. There was a strong breeze blowing so I wanted to make sure they were well inside the parking lot.

 

This young man ended up with coleman fuel and was going to pour it on the fire....One of the parents saw this and stopped him. He then went to a small brush pile and retrieved a dry palm leaf and drug it over to the fire and started putting it into the fire. The same adult leader ordered him to stop. At that time, there were two of the younger scouts headed to the brush pile to also get palm leaves. Finally the adult stopped all this.

 

There were four of us doing board of review and we didn't know anything about it until I was on my way home from the meeting.

 

The SM was there last night and we were going to have an adult leader meeting. This young man didn't show up for last nights meeting. However, we told the younger scouts ANYTHING violating safety would not be tolerated. We sited the incident from the week before and pointed safety violations in regards to the fire. We also pointed out that the older scouts WERE THE EXAMPLE of what a scout should be and that the pressure was on them to train the younger scouts.

 

I look forward to the training and to sometime be at the level as it looks most of you guys on this website are. All of us started at the bottom somewhere and we learned from our mistakes. I was reading some of the other postings and most especially the on from "You seem to not have any written rules" on the right hand side. I can see both sides of the argument being a beginning leader. Only thing I have in my favor is that I've raised two other boys and much of it is like parenting.

 

I've learned through just reading, our boys and their "leadership role" at this time is a joke. I'm working to try to get our SPL to assume his real leadership role within the troop.....

 

I thank you guys for your suggestions. Like I said I know what we have to do to straighten this young man our and/or forbid him from being at our meetings but I wanted some BSA rules/regulations I could cite to show him.

 

This fire situation could've turned bad real fast.

 

Maybe I'm over reacting to this situation but I don't think I am in any form or fashion....

 

Thanks.....

 

LC

[John-in-KC 311]

Training, training, and more training!!!

 

All of you, including the young man in question, need:

- Youth protection training.

- Boy Scout Fast Start Training.

- New Leader Essentials Common Core

- New Leader Essentials Scoutmaster Specific.

- New Leader Essentials Outdoor Skills (If that's not the tech name, please update me!).

- Merit Badge Counselor orientation.

 

For the moment, I assume the SM and you both have the first four above.

 

You might also ask your unit commissioner to come by and visit.

 

Finally, there has to be a Scouter out there your young ASM has encountered and respects ... he might be the one to welcome him to the adult side and explain the differences between being IN the program and being an adult supporting the program.

 

Finally, the young man in question is still age-eligible to be "in the program" for Venturing. He may (heck most of us DO) need a healthy outlet for his energy.

[Bob White 20]

Just because someone was a scout (evem an Eagle Scout) does not make them a good person to be an adult leader and certainlly having a birthday doesn't make someone a good choice for a scout leader. Charter oganizations need to choose their leadership carefully. You will get the unit unit you deserve.

 

My advice is to give the young man a minimum 6 month to one year hiatus. Let him learn about being an adult first, then let him apply for a leadership position, provide references and show skills that would be useful to the unit.

 

BW

[BadenP 93]

I agree with Bob, this young man in no way is emotionally mature enough to take on a leadership position at this time. He needs to grow up and learn the responsibility of being an adult. I think he would be a detriment to your troop at this time. If he wants to show some maturity let him take training with you, but keep him away from the boys for at least a few months. He will either rise to your expectations and become more mature and a real asset to your troop or he will move on, either way it will be for the best.

[dsteele 20]

Although I agree with much of what was posted in this thread . . .

 

I think the young man in question got the patch without the "Talk."

 

The "talk" needs to come from a scouter he respects. I won't attempt to script it, but I'll give you the highlights in bullet format. PS -- you won't find this in Scouting texts, but I think it's appropriate:

 

@ -- you're an adult now, John. Welcome to the Troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster

 

@ -- There are some significant differences between being "one of the boys" and being an adult leader.

 

@ Your job is to teach the boys to lead each other. You can't do that if you're playing along like you're one of them. That doesn't mean you can't have fun. Heck, I even have fun with the boys, but you can't lead them astray.

 

@ You were a Scout a short while ago. As a former Scout (or current Eagle,) you know a lot about the troop and about being a Boy Scout. However, you don't know anything yet about being an adult leader. You've seen some examples, but you're now a Tenderfoot in the adult world. The training you need to take is only beginnning. This is not meant to demean you, just to get you ready for the advice you need:

 

1) Lay back and watch what the other adults are doing. Take direction from the adults and don't try to dive into the Scout's fun -- by that I mean learn to be an adult.

 

2) Hang out with us when we're giving the Scouts their room to learn. You'll be surprised to learn how much fun it is to watch and guide from a distance.

 

3) Stop calling me Mr. Scoutmaster (or whatever title or last name.) You're an adult now the same as any other. You're no longer a boy I work with, you're a man who helps me.

 

Just a few random thoughts that should be given to 18 year olds who recently crossed over to adult leadership in the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Unc.

[lesliec 10]

Unc...

 

I appreciated your post....This is what I intend on doing......The SM just "automatically" put him into the position because of his age......My problem, our problem, is we're not trained and I didn't know how to handle it through BSA rules.....I just want him to understand how accountable he can be held for his actions as an adult leader......

 

Some of the posts almost were condensending...But, it was one of those situations if the SM and, I was basically thrown into a leadership role also, wouldn't have stepped-up then the troop, with a 60 yr history, would've folded.....

 

 

I know, and FULLY ADMIT, we (I) need to be trained. But, training down in this area is few and far between. We have a hard time even maintaining a round table. My wife started Cub Scouts here and was able to hold it together. We now have 1 Weblos group, and Tigers up.......

 

Our Council rep resigned and the Assistant Director is aware we need training. As I said, I have two other troop leaders that help us also over the phone and/or we visit with them. I enjoy being with the boys. I've also just had spinal fusion so I'm limited as to what I can do for a short time....

 

Again Unc, I appreciate your advice...

 

John In KC

 

I realize I need the items you listed below but as I explained above training is sparse down here at this time....I've taken the Fast Start Training online and will look for the other items and/or call the Scout Store to see if they have them in stock.

 

Youth protection training.

- Boy Scout Fast Start Training.

- New Leader Essentials Common Core

- New Leader Essentials Scoutmaster Specific.

- New Leader Essentials Outdoor Skills (If that's not the tech name, please update me!).

- Merit Badge Counselor orientation.

 

I'll also as them about the Youth Protection Program.

 

To show you how disorganized this is, I've been trying to make the SM understand the boys should be getting trained to lead the meeting instead of us leading the meeting. When I bought my Troop Leader's book, I found I wasn't mistaken. They were shocked to find this information. I tried explaining THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS FOR LEADERSHIP for the advancement! Not just Pledge, Oath, Promise, Prayer....We had no calendar of events or anything...

 

Now, we're slowly but surely moving towards that direction. As I stated in an earlier post, everyone starts out leading Boy Scouts not knowing what they're doing. It's just in most cases, they have someone to mentor them and teach them. We started out with a troop who's leader, of 15 yrs, was RIF'd from his job and had to relocate. His son "an Eagle Scout" took over the troop and then quit coming and then abandoned the troop....Soooo then the existing troop leader took over as of 1/1 and somehow, and I'm not complaining, I was put in as ASM....

 

So, as everyone can see, we have alot to overcome and learn!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Thanks for everyone's input and I'm open to any other suggestions!!!!!!!

 

God Bless

 

Leslie

 

[ScoutNut 147]

Am I the only one who wonders why an 18+ yo Eagle scout thinks it's ok to pour liquid fuel on a fire?

 

Was he never trained in fire saftey when he was a youth member? Whooo Boy!

 

Your Committee Chair (who is in charge, along with your Charter Org Rep, of providing leaders) needs to have a talk with this guy. Along with other things, he needs to find out if he is really serious about staying connected with the Troop in a leadership position or if this whole year was about having fun with the other scouts until he goes away to college. Your SM's wife is wrong, you do not HAVE to put up with him.

 

You say that your District does not have training until May. Just an FYI - You can take training in any District & even in another Council if need be. You might also pick up a copy of Boy Scout Troop Program Features, Boy Scout Troop Program Resources & the Guide to Safe Scouting (which can also be found on-line at scouting.org) at your Scout Shop.