How do you / When would you close a Troop?

[WisconsinMomma 217]

Backround: Our troop is down to one patrol, figure 10 scouts in the troop.

We have key leadership positions filled.  Three scouts will age out this year.  

The next year, three more scouts will age out.

Then two

Then two are left.

We are not anticipating any new scouts joining from Cubs for the next two years.  There is a large Wolf den in Cubs.  

My husband is the Scoutmaster.  He says he will remain Scoutmaster for the next three yeas until our youngest scout gets Eagle in this troop.

Frankly, I don't know if my youngest son wants to eagle in this troop, or eagle at all. He is interested in Sea Scouts.

My husband has been in tears last week because our 17 year old wants to quit and is thinking of not finishing Eagle.  

I am Assistant Scoutmaster but my involvement is very low, except for going to meetings and camp outs to be the extra set of hands.  I don't do very much. I am criticized for not doing much (by my spouse) but also do not want to get in the way. I did a lot in Cub scouts.  

I see no future for this troop. There is a neighboring troop in our school district who was once very low numbers but has recently gotten a lot of new scouts and grown. I personally think our troop should disband and join the other troop.... however....

There is a lot of stuff and a lot of money -- a fully stocked Troop trailer and about $11k in the bank.  In theory this would all be given to the chartered org (or spent down before disbanding?)

Has anyone disbanded a Troop?

Not that my husband sees this, I think he wants to grind it out to the end but frankly being Scoutmaster is a burden on him and I think he is getting bitter or has been for a while. He feels like he is doing "all the work".  We have three supporting adults who do committe chair, plan outings and advancement who are supporting him in those areas.

The scouts are all older but there are no young scouts for them to lead and teach, and frankly for them to be role models for.  I think this is leading our older scouts to goof off more.  

That's not necessarily bad, to have a group of guys who like to be social and have fun.  

I am frustrated. I think there should be a long term plan to wind down the troop and merge with the neghboring troop (who is friendly and the kids in our troop go to school with and know the kids in the other troop). I think the Scouts would be happy enough with a merger. The adults I think would prefer to hang on and feel a sense of obligation to long ago Scouters and the troops history -- all those adults are gone and not coming back.  

Any advice?  

My husband wants me to step up.  Learn some knots or something. I don't think the problem is so much lack of adults as it is lack of kids. 

 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

We are in a similar boat. We have no Cub Scout pack affiliated with us, and our council has refused to help when we asked for it.. Recruiting is strictly word of mouth, and usually entails folks transferring from other troops. However we now have 2 with no previous Scouting  experience. 

We are pushing recruiting, both Scouts and parents. With the exception of me, none of the active, registered adults have Scouts anymore. And my youngest is looking to drop next year.

[WisconsinMomma 217]

I think since we have two troops in the same community, it makes great sense to merge rather than have two distinct troops.  I wonder if we should plan in advance for next school year to be the last year of our Troop and then dissolve/merge with the neighbor troop.  This would give all the current Life Scouts another year to finish Eagle with this troop should they want it.

 

The issue though is the trailer and all the money.  I am sure we can find people to take them, it's just -- what is the right way to to do this?  The chartered org technically would get it all.  Can troops disburse their treasury otherwise, like donate to Council, or the other troop in the area? 

 

My husband talked about placeholder registrations to hold the Troop for the large Wolf pack coming up but it is unclear how may youth would stay into scouting and you need adult leaders most of all.  I think he is nervous about the "old guard" from 3+ years ago showing up and making a stink, but they've left.  In my view, it's time to move on. 

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by WisconsinMomma

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

17 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I think since we have two troops in the same community, it makes great sense to merge rather than have two distinct troops.  I wonder if we should plan in advance for next school year to be the last year of our Troop and then dissolve/merge with the neighbor troop.  This would give all the current Life Scouts another year to finish Eagle with this troop should they want it.

 

The issue though is the trailer and all the money.  I am sure we can find people to take them, it's just -- what is the right way to to do this?  The chartered org technically would get it all.  Can troops disburse their treasury otherwise, like donate to Council, or the other troop in the area? 

 

My husband talked about placeholder registrations to hold the Troop for the large Wolf pack coming up but it is unclear how may youth would stay into scouting and you need adult leaders most of all.  I think he is nervous about the "old guard" from 3+ years ago showing up and making a stink, but they've left.  In my view, it's time to move on. 

 

Thank you and your husband for doing the work it takes to keep a Troop going!!

This sounds like a normal "down" in the life cycle of a Troop.  But it does beg a question: "What do you think is the "right" size for a Troop?"

In Aids to Scoutmastership, (recommended reading) BP thought the answer was 16.  But, he granted that most were twice the man he was, so he said he could see 32. 

     "The number in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty-two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many as I could deal with-in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two.

     Men talk of having fine Troops of 60 or even 100-and their leaders tell me that their boys are equally well trained as in smaller Troops. I express admiration (“admiration” literally translated means “surprise”), and I don’t believe them.

     “Why worry about individual training?” they ask. Because it is the only way by which you can educate. You can instruct any number of boys, a thousand at a time if you have a loud voice and attractive methods of disciplinary means. But that is not training-it is not education.

     Education is the thing that counts in building character and In making men.

     The incentive to perfect himself, when properly instilled into the individual, brings about his active effort on the line most suitable to his temperament and powers.

     It is not the slightest use to preach the Scout Law or to give it out as orders to a crowd of boys: each mind requires its special exposition of them and the ambition to carry them out."   page 30

http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/a2sm.pdf

Our Troop is 55, and it is DIFFICULT! to minister adequately to the needs of that many Scouts.  Basically, we have 6 Patrols that fairly well function on their own as "mini-Troops", each with an assigned Assistant Scoutmaster, who, frankly, functions as a Scoutmaster.  (When they don't do well mentoring as ASM, that patrol suffers!)  This is the only way it works, and it is, I believe, what BP was aiming at with his idea.

So, IMO, I think you can do just fine with four Scouts.  After you get below that point, you do not really have a Patrol. (See optimal working group size.)  However, I think your council may have restrictions on how many you need to re-charter (Five, I think??  Ask your registrar!)

https://howtosavetheworld.ca/2009/03/18/the-optimal-size-of-groups/

(BTW, group dynamics are key.  Any successful large group you have ever been a part of has been divided up into small groups like this.  Basic size of first echelon military unit?  Four 😜 https://www.defense.gov/Multimedia/Experience/Military-Units/army/#army  There is a reason for this...)

Instead of a plan to draw down, How about first a plan to grow/replace?  Then have an alternate plan to disband.  If all you do is plan to disband, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

-------------------------------------------

As for your hubby... sit down with him over coffee.  Tell him you want to help him be successful with the Troop.  Ask him to spend a little time to come up with his top three things (priorities) the Troop needs help with.  Then, either do them (if you can), OR, work with your committee to find someone to do them!!  

Both of you will appreciate this approach.

-------------------------------------------

OK, who cares about the stuff and money?  It is just stuff and money.  To help prepare for draw down (or growth), first, make sure the trailer title and registration is in the CO's name (if your state requires a title and plate for a trailer.) 

Next, start spending the money.  With a plan.  Send your Scouts to NYLT.  Pay their full tuition to Summer Camp next year.  Send them to a High Adventure Base! (HAB)  Plan your own week-long Summer Scouting Adventure instead of going to an over-priced boutique HAB.  etc, etc, etc  Just make sure you use the money for Scouting purposes, and that it is equitable among your Scouts.

(Use this as a recruiting tool!  "First five Scouts to join our Troop get to go to camp at half price!")

You are correct... technically, it all belongs to the CO.  So, if the Troop is to disband, then they get to have a say in the disposition of equipment and money.  There are two basic alternatives for the CO for equipment:

1.  Keep it!  We still want to sponsor a Troop in the future, so we want to keep the gear for that eventuality.

2.  Get rid of it!  Offer it to other Troops and Packs, or sell it.

Now, for the money:  (You may use it liberally for the Scouts in your CO's unit, but tread CAREFULLY with sending money outside your CO's umbrella.  They have ultimate say in that!)

1.  Keep it!  We still want to sponsor a Troop in the future, so we want to keep the money for that eventuality.

2.  Get rid of it:

     Option A: If your Scouts transfer to a unit that keep Scout accounts, transfer a portion with them.  This could have tax implications, so be careful.  NEVER, EVER give the money to individuals.  The IRS would be very interested if you did this 😜 

     Option B: Get your CO's permission to transfer the money to another CO.  Again, this has tax implications, so be careful.  Talk with the Treasurers of both CO's A LOT before you do this.

     Option C 😄 (aka, the "nuclear" option):  Give it to council.  It disappears down the rat hole 😜   

There are other options...

NOTE:  That is a lot of money.  IMO, you ought to have no more than one year's Troop expenses on hand.  Recharter fees, awards and advancements, training, etc, etc, etc.  (Do you have a budget??  Do you know how much money you spent last year?)

 

[qwazse 4345]

It’s like I have an evil twin five years later.

Bottom line: how involved is the CO? The intent is that resources stay with the CO for the purposes of scouting. How does he COR think they will support scouting going forward if the troop folds? Does the CO have parents with teens?

As far as implementing this:

Your treasury is too deep. Presumably these are funds that existing scouts and parents earned. Pay fully for everyone’s registration and the scouts’ summer camp. Schedule outings with the other troop so the scouts can get to know one another. Pay for the cracker-barrel for any older scouts so that same-age scouts may get to know one another.

IS THERE A CREW or SHIP nearby? Introduce your scouts to those opportunities. They may want to become one.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

When I was a youth many years ago, we had a troop fold and some of their Scouts joined our troop. We also got some gear out of them folding. Once I became an ASM, I found out the full story. CO was a civic organization, and the president and few board members were not favorable towards Scouting. They were also having some financial challenges. When their board found out that they owned equipment and money in the account, they decided they were not going to recharter the unit, sell the equipment, and use the money for themselves. One of the board members was pro scouting and got the word out. Before they folded, they prepaid all their members for another year's membership, summer camp, and a few had national jamboree paid for. They sold the equipment to the various units the Scouts were joining dirt cheap ( I seem to recall $1 either for all or per item) and essentially left them with about $100 in the account. IH was mad, but the treasurer, who was the pro-Scouting member, reminded them that even if they had everything, it was supposed to be saved for restarting the troop, and they were not suppose to sell the equipment or use the funds for themselves.

[seattlecyclone 55]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:37 AM, qwazse said:

IS THERE A CREW or SHIP nearby? Introduce your scouts to those opportunities. They may want to become one.

I second this idea. Your numbers are low and you don't foresee recruiting anyone from Cub Scouts for two years. Those six Scouts aging out this year or next would still be eligible to participate in Venturing if they remain interested and living in the area. The funds and equipment and existing relationship with a chartered organization would all be great startup assets for a new crew. You could reach out to the other troop in town to form a nice feeder relationship between the two.

[curious_scouter 134]

My unit was at one time 75 scouts strong.  I absolutely see the wisdom in BP's suggestion of 32 max.  We are at around 40 active scouts right now and I feel 100% there is no way I'm able to adequately get time with each.  The saving grace is we have a strong Scoutmaster Corp and really well trained youth leaders (NYLT for the win) and so it works.  Our unit has been "top heavy" - many years ago we received mega crossover groups from a pack.  Those mega groups will all age out together, just as they came in together.  We had 6 last year, we will have 5 this year.  Next year we have 8 I think.  Inbound has been weak so we're shrinking pretty rapidly.  Part of me feels some panic.  Part of me feels some relief and is at terms with the idea we might be drifting to a "right sized" Troop. 

I don't think it's about the number of scouts as much as what they are getting out of it.  If you're all burned out and they aren't having fun and growing as people as a result and no "fresh blood" is around to give you a break... it's probably time to think about what's best for the Scouts. 

Don't let money and trailers be the deciding factor.  Do what makes sense for the Scouts.

[Ojoman 157]

On 9/27/2023 at 8:45 AM, WisconsinMomma said:

My husband wants me to step up.  Learn some knots or something. I don't think the problem is so much lack of adults as it is lack of kids. 

Steps to 'save' the troop or shut it down... 

First, Steps to save the troop. Many packs have weak programing and don't retain cubs through the 5 1/2 years from Tiger to AOL and if there isn't an attractive troop program to go to the AOL's may not cross over. Multiple things need to happen if your troop will survive. First, meet with the pack leadership and help them create a stimulating program that meets both the needs of the cubs and the parents. Cubs want fun, adventure and recognition... parents want their kids to grow in values and life skills. Help the pack build 3 levels of program events/activities (k/1, 2/3, 4/5) so the program changes as the cubs age to meet their ability and maturity levels. The troop can have the Webelos dens meet with the troop and assign scouts to assist as den chiefs. The Pack/Troop can build a recruitment plan for grades 4/5 and bring new cubs into those dens. Have a mini high adventure activity for the fifth grade AOL's. This gives you a solid source of new members. Additionally, the troop needs to recruit in the spring from the graduating grade 5 and the higher grades, especially 6 and 7 but have a hook, some event perhaps at the council camp with field sports for a day of adventure. Troops should not just sit on their butts and wait for the AOL crossovers. The troop needs to sell the scout prospects on all the positives (owner benefits and good qualities OB'S AND GQ'S of being a part of the troop. There are many including the things related to advancement and leadership training that can go on college applications and job resumes. There is more but this is a start. 

Shutting down a unit: Contact your DE as there is a report that is supposed to be filed that outlines what needs to be done. 

Don't give up the ship.... 

 

[scoutldr 732]

"Shutting down" a unit means giving up the charter.  That is really the domain of the Chartered Organization, not the volunteer leadership.  Scouts and Scouters should make their own individual decisions whether to re-register.  Give the CO warning that key leaders will be leaving.  Then let the chips fall.  All funds and equipment technically belong to the CO, so I would do what I could to expend those assets on program as much as possible and quit collecting new assets and funds.  Paying for all expenses and registrations is certainly within the realm of "program".  Any equipment purchased by individuals can be reclaimed by them if they want.  That's how we did it.

[Ojoman 157]

44 minutes ago, scoutldr said:

"Shutting down" a unit means giving up the charter. 

If the leadership decides that the unit can't continue, you are correct in that the charter is to the 'sponsor'. However, the DE needs to follow the proceedures which include meeting with the IH and determining what funds and equipment remain and how they will be dispursed. Generally, funds remaining are to be used for youth programs but if the partner has no other programs then often the funds are held by the local council for a period if the unit is reorganized (seperated/rechartered). Equipment such as camping/flags/derby tracks and such also need to be assigned by the partner. 

[Eagle69 46]

I shut down a Troop 17 years ago that had been Chartered for 43 years and the Council never said a word or did anything until 6 months later when someone called me to inquire about something, nobody even missed us not Rechartering.  I held onto everything for two years when I went to a new Troop as an ASM and brought 3 of my Committee people along on paper so we would have the base of adults to recharter if the opportunity came.  After two years the Preacher at our former Charter Partner said we want the space where the troop gear is so you have to get rid of it.  I kept a few pieces for myself and gave everything else away to other Scout Units.  The adults that were associated with the unit when it folded told me to keep the funds in the bank account as payment for 28 years as SM.