Question about local group requirements

[mrjohns2 582]

17 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

They hint at it in the FAQ.

Yes, I saw the hint where it says to be registered in the position you are performing in the unit. So, if a Cubmaster comes on a troop campout, they can't be a Cubmaster, but man, it is very vague. 

[Double Eagle 128]

The big thinkers in the site are digging into this area, thanks.  As a Scouter not in a unit, registered and YPT District Staff only, I have accompanied camping Troops when they lacked a registered Scouter.  I fit the requirement and we had the campout.  Otherwise, the unit would have cancelled the campout due to lack of adults.  

I'll have to ask the council the question on whether it has to be any BSA registered and YPT adult, or one registered to a specific unit only.  Seems kinda dumb to be a "unit-specific-only" restriction (restriction used lightly).  If unit-registered-adult only, I wonder how they work summer camp and the High Adventure Bases with guides, rangers, and staff that may accompany troops on overnighters.  Philmont Rangers is a good question as they stay multiple nights with treks.

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

16 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

I'll have to ask the council the question on whether it has to be any BSA registered and YPT adult

If they say "yes", then why would a Merit Badge Counselor not fit the bill??

OR, if you have two "unit" registered leaders, could they have an MBC accompany them (say, on an overnight canoe trip to help teach and evaluate Canoeing Merit Badge), as long as the MBC is in that role versus in the role of adult supervision??

Isn't that what happens at council or national treks?  (The Philmont Ranger, or council trek leader is not counted for two-deep, as they are not filling that role.)

[Double Eagle 128]

My point about rangers and staff is they still have to be registered, even if a unit has several adults.  Anyone on troop overnighters have to be registered and YPT.  Not looking for the 2-deep piece, but rather who are authorized to stay on overnight events.

[mrjohns2 582]

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

If they say "yes", then why would a Merit Badge Counselor not fit the bill??

In both cases they are saying because the COR must approve of all adults on a campout. 

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

14 minutes ago, Double Eagle said:

My point about rangers and staff is they still have to be registered, even if a unit has several adults.  Anyone on troop overnighters have to be registered and YPT.  Not looking for the 2-deep piece, but rather who are authorized to stay on overnight events.

Got it.  Yes, all on the overnighter must be registered...

The guidance (for the benefit of others) says this:

"All adults staying overnight in connection with a Scouting activity must be currently registered as an adult volunteer or an adult program participant.  Adult volunteers must register in the position(s) they are serving in."

So, this gives you WIDE latitude, I think, because it is still quite vague.

But, if you have two adults registered in the position they are serving in, then any other adults, registered in any capacity, should be fine. (Except those who are MBC-only, as they are explicitly prohibited.)

So, some head-scratching questions with this loosey-goosey approach, for instance:

1)  Could two 21-year old Unit Scouter Reserves serve as adult leadership for an overnight camping trip?   As currently written, I say yes, if they are trained (YPT is the only requirement for them), and one of them has current Hazardous Weather training IAW G2SS.

2)  Could two Committee Members serve as adult leadership for an overnight trip?  Again, yes, as long as one of them has Hazardous Weather.

3)  Could two District Committee members serve?  No, because they are registered at the District level, and the overnight camp is a unit-level activity.  That is, they are not "registered in the role".

 

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

1 minute ago, mrjohns2 said:

In both cases they are saying because the COR must approve of all adults on a campout. 

Agreed, because G2SS specifically prohibits MBCs in that role, as that is a District/Council role, versus a unit role...

[SiouxRanger 491]

I have to say, just how many binders of rules do we need?

I drop my kid off at an open field to participate in a soccer game. In full view of hundreds of parents. The event lasts an hour or so. And I pick my kid up. And all is done. In full view of many adults.  (Actually, I NEVER left my kid, but for argument's sake…)

SCOUTING (activities), on the other hand, encompass a wide range of situations.

 Friday nights to Sunday mornings, in remote campsites. Plenty of opportunities for abuse situations.

Quiet, dark, secluded…

My point is that this whole situation needs to be examined and reduced to a simple set of rules that is memorable…so that all of us can instantly recognize violations.

I'm a lawyer. 50 pounds of rules. Fine.  I can do that. Three tons of rules. No problem.

But for BSA volunteers, we need to simplify it down to something memorable.  "Catchy."

 

[AwakeEnergyScouter 247]

10 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

But for BSA volunteers, we need to simplify it down to something memorable.  "Catchy."

I actually took the rules to mean "no adults that haven't been background checked staying overnight". In part because that makes total sense. If the red flags are already up, use them. It's necessary, if not sufficient.

[mrjohns2 582]

17 hours ago, SiouxRanger said:

I'm a lawyer. 50 pounds of rules. Fine.  I can do that. Three tons of rules. No problem.

But for BSA volunteers, we need to simplify it down to something memorable.  "Catchy."

As an engineer, I like to follow rules., but they need to be clear What drives me crazy is the FAQ becomes like an amendment to the rules. 

Two deep is a good example of catchy (well, it has become catchy, but it works). 

[InquisitiveScouter 1656]

I do not employ FAQ when applying rules....

If it is that important, write it into the rule...