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David CO

Lone Scouts - a better structure

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

But the general structure and design works well.

I disagree.  I think the structure and design of Lone Scouts was better.  If BSA had adopted more of the Lone Scout program, it would have greater appeal to this generation of scouts.  Today's families are less likely than previous generations to join programs that have a fixed schedule of activities.  They want more flexibility.  Lone Scouting offers that flexibility.

Some councils won't even register boys who want to participate as Lone Scouts.  They would rather have declining membership than a strong Lone Scout program.  If BSA goes under, a new scouting program along the lines of Lone Scouting could be very successful.  It would need some modernization, though.  

A hybrid program consisting of both traditional units and lone scouting would be best.  But if unit scouters and council execs won't allow a hybrid program, I think lone scouting could make it on its own.  

Edited by David CO

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12 minutes ago, David CO said:

Lone Scouting offers that flexibility.

Which is interesting because Lone Scouting by its very nature was (and is?) almost antithetical to the original Baden-Powell model “The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the only method.” Lone scouts have no patrol.

Now, one thing I have heard Councils doing is to have lone scout "troops" and "patrols" but I am not sure if that is widespread.

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16 minutes ago, David CO said:

I disagree.  I think the structure and design of Lone Scouts was better.  If BSA had adopted more of the Lone Scout program, it would have greater appeal to this generation of scouts.  Today's families are less likely than previous generations to join programs that have a fixed schedule of activities.  They want more flexibility.  Lone Scouting offers that flexibility.

Some councils won't even register boys who want to participate as Lone Scouts.  They would rather have declining membership than a strong Lone Scout program.  If BSA goes under, a new scouting program along the lines of Lone Scouting could be very successful.  It would need some modernization, though.  

A hybrid program consisting of both traditional units and lone scouting would be best.  But if unit scouters and council execs won't allow a hybrid program, I think lone scouting could make it on its own.  

Scouting, by design, is most effective when in a group setting. (i.e dens, patrols). Lone Scouting is an absolute last resort option if traditional unit can't happen. I HIGHLY DOUBT there are councils out there that will refuse to register a Lone Scout, ESPECIALLY when there is declining membership. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the "structure" of Lone Scouts is better. There is no structure....that's the point. Unless that is your argument. 

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3 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Which is interesting because Lone Scouting by its very nature was (and is?) almost antithetical to the original Baden-Powell model “The patrol system is not one method in which Scouting can be carried on. It is the only method.” Lone scouts have no patrol.

True.  Lone Scouting does not follow B-P model.

 

5 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Now, one thing I have heard Councils doing is to have lone scout "troops" and "patrols" but I am not sure if that is widespread.

Lone Scouts of America did have something similar to patrols.  They were more flexible and boy organized.  Little adult supervision.

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7 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Now, one thing I have heard Councils doing is to have lone scout "troops" and "patrols" but I am not sure if that is widespread.

This is actually starting to regain traction in our virtual setting. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Scouting, by design, is most effective when in a group setting. (i.e dens, patrols). Lone Scouting is an absolute last resort option if traditional unit can't happen. 

Most execs feel that way.  They're wrong.  Schools say exactly the same thing about home schooling.

Edited by David CO
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Just now, David CO said:

Most execs feel that way.  They're wrong.

Sometimes I feel you hope Scouting dies just so we can all be unemployed 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

Sometimes I feel you hope Scouting dies just so we can all be unemployed 

Unemployment might well be the result, but it is not the goal.  You are right about one thing.  I am willing to see all of the execs unemployed if that is what it takes to fix scouting.  

Edited by David CO

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3 minutes ago, carebear3895 said:

This is actually starting to regain traction in our virtual setting. 

 

17 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

Now, one thing I have heard Councils doing is to have lone scout "troops" and "patrols" but I am not sure if that is widespread.

This is actually related to something that I am toying with as an element of my Woodbadge ticket.  We have a couple of Scouts who can’t participate in-person due to health concerns even though our unit has restarted in-person meetings and outdoor program.  We’ve been experimenting with ways of keeping them as part of the troop/patrol (not sure if I mentioned in other posts, but we are keeping a virtual connection to troop/patrol meetings, actually had a virtual connection to our first COVID-campout, and have tried virtual scout led skills teaching).  Some of the experiments have worked better than others and we are learning some technology and other lessons.  One element I am thinking of trying to have on my ticket is collecting best practices — including things that have worked for other troops — to try to get more of a knowledge base together on this.  Taking on board the critique I’ve read here about the issues with virtual Scouting, the notion is how to try to address as many of them as possible to make it more like a real experience, even if it will never be as good as the real thing.  I’d appreciate any pointers people have to places that have been doing things like this — whether they are working well or not, since maybe as much to learn from what doesn’t work as what does.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Patrol Method is the main driver of growth in the troop program. How you see it in your vision?

Barry

Great question.  The original vision of Lone Scouting (Lone Scouts of America) was that the organization registers the boy, not the unit.  The boy can join or quit a "patrol" or "unit" or "council" without any change in registration.  The boy chooses his companions.  They are not chosen for him.

Lone Scouts did get together to go camping.  The patrol method was used.  

Lone scouts were expected to be more self-reliant.  They were expected to pay their own way.  Very little in the way of fund raising.  Very little physical infrastructure.  Lone Scouting was more like pick-up-games than organized sports leagues.  We still played the game, and we played by the rules, but we didn't have umpires and coaches and sponsors to contend with.  

 

Edited by David CO
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3 minutes ago, David CO said:

Great question.  The original vision of Lone Scouting (Lone Scouts of America) was that the organization registers the boy, not the unit.  The boy can join or quit a "patrol" or "unit" without any change in registration.  The boy chooses his companions.  They are not chosen for him.

Lone Scouts did get together to go camping.  The patrol method was used.  

 

You seem to be using registration as reasoning for how Patrol Method is used, that is not the case. Patrol Method is team actions actions intended to force each scout to make decisions based off the Law and Oath. Lone Scout was created for boys in rural areas where meeting as a group is not practical. Meeting a few times a year as a group is not a reasonable application of patrol method because the scout doesn't make enough decisions to develop habits of good character. 

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just questioning why. Since Lone Scouts wasn't intended for using Patrol Method, why would  anyone need to try when Patrol Method already exist? Seems  you are going about this backwards. Why not instead use some of the advantages of Lone Scouts to improve the existing patrol method. I'm not sure what those advantages would be, but registration has little to do with youth activities intended to drive decision making. 

Barry

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1 hour ago, BAJ said:

 I’d appreciate any pointers people have to places that have been doing things like this — whether they are working well or not, since maybe as much to learn from what doesn’t work as what does.

I think you should start a new thread. There were some threads about scouting with covid but you might be bringing up a bigger issue?

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

Lone Scout was created for boys in rural areas where meeting as a group is not practical. Barry

That is simply not true.  Lone Scouting was originally created in Chicago to serve newspaper boys and other urban working boys.  My dad was one of them.  He peddled vegetables off of a street cart on the south side of Chicago.  As such, he knew a lot of the newspaper boys who sold newspapers on the street corners.  They recruited him into Lone Scouting. 

Many small farmers would bring their crops into the city and sell them to street vendors, like my father.  They got to know each other, and Lone Scouting spread to small farmers and agricultural worker in rural communities.  By the time BSA bought out LSA, there were more rural Lone Scouts than urban Lone Scouts.  There were once 250,000 Lone Scouts.

Can you imagine what a difference it would make today if BSA had 250,000 Lone Scouts registered?  BSA has distorted the original vision of Lone Scouts.  I know that you would like to restore the original vision of Boy Scouting.  I wish you would want to restore the original vision of Lone Scouting as well.

Edited by David CO

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21 minutes ago, David CO said:

That is simply not true.  Lone Scouting was originally created in Chicago to serve newspaper boys and other urban working boys.  My dad was one of them.  He peddled vegetables off of a street cart on the south side of Chicago.  As such, he knew a lot of the newspaper boys who sold newspapers on the street corners.  They recruited him into Lone Scouting. 

Many small farmers would bring their crops into the city and sell them to street vendors, like my father.  They got to know each other, and Lone Scouting spread to small farmers and agricultural worker in rural communities.  By the time BSA bought out LSA, there were more rural Lone Scouts than urban Lone Scouts.  There were once 250,000 Lone Scouts.

Can you imagine what a difference it would make today if BSA had 250,000 Lone Scouts registered?  BSA has distorted the original vision of Lone Scouts.  I know that you would like to restore the original vision of Boy Scouting.  I wish you would want to restore the original vision of Lone Scouting as well.

You simply are over reacting. I'm not sure where it was created, AND I don't care. Origination has nothing to do with you wanting scrap the current patrol method program. AND, you haven't yet given a good program example why Lone Scouts would be a good replacement. You just sound angry. 

Barry

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

You simply are over reacting. I'm not sure where it was created, AND I don't care. Origination has nothing to do with you wanting scrap the current patrol method program. AND, you haven't yet given a good program example why Lone Scouts would be a good replacement. You just sound angry. 

Barry

I know you don't care.  You only care about your own program.  I don't have the power to change anything.  I can't scrap the current patrol method.  I'm just a bystander to the bankruptcy.  I suspect that if your program gets cancelled, and if you sound angry, people might say that you are simply over reacting.  Good luck with that.

Edited by David CO

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