Utopian Charter Organization and Committee - By the Book or Real World?

[fotoscout 15]

We see many references and suggestions here in the forum that rely heavily on the existence of the perfect Charter Organization relationship, and the optimum Committee operation. I am wondering how many of you have that type of situation, OR, do you operate in the real world of a half hearted CO and bare bones Committee of people wearing two and three scouting hats?

 

As for my Pack, we have an absentee CO, and we have only one (1)real committee person that is not also a leader.

 

[Bob White 20]

The Charter organization relationship will be whatever you cultivate to be.

 

The label of Utopian is nothing more than an excuse used to explain something you couldn't accomplish. trrops that don't use patrol method say it is utopian and cannot be done. units that don't use the uniform method correctly and can't get their members into a full uniform say that it is utopian, and units that don't select adults and nurture a CO relationship claim them to be utopian. it is easier to swallow than to admit you might be doing it wrong, just say it cannot be achieved. The downfall of that arguement is the vast majority of units who achieve it.

 

Do not ignore your spouse and then complain that never want to spend time with you. Do not ignore the Charter organization and then claim they never do anything for the unit. The relationship is half yours, what did you do for it today?

[dan 10]

How many of these bare bones CO are that way because the Unit "leaders" want(ed) complete control versus someone (the DE?) explaining to the CO what their role is within the BSA.

How many CO would balk or run away if they knew that they "owned" or will "own" the unit. And that they are responsible for that unit.

[eagle90 125]

Our troop is chartered by a school's parent teacher organization, and they could care less if we are alive or not. The only thing they provide is a place to meet. Ane then if anything at all goes wrong with the building during the week, they look to us first for the blame. I have been with this unit for 30+ years and we always invite the CO president to Courts of Honor, Eagle Ceremonies and annual dinners, and I can count the number of times any one of them has shown up on half of one hand! Case in point, we just celebrated our 50th anniversary with a banquet attended by over 150 former members. The CO president or designatee was invited, and we never even received the courtesy of an RSVP. No, all CO's do NOT care and many do NOT want tobe involved in the Pack or Troop's activities or business.

[mk9750 11]

This is an interesting question.

 

For the last 6 years of my 9 with my Troop, I have been trying to help our CO understand that we are part of their youth ministry, not a seperate organization that provides us with a few resources. It has been a long, uphill battle, but it has been working. It might have been quicker if I were a member of the CO, but I belong to different Parish, so it's been tough.

 

What has been the result of this effort?

 

Until 2 years ago, we NEVER saw anyone from our CO except parents of Scouts at an event. Not meetings, not COHs, not Eagle COHs, not service projects done for them, not fund raisers. Now, the COR has come to all but one COH, both Eagle COHs, has helped promote our fund raisers, and has made sure we have gotten publicity in the Parish for our Service work.

 

Until 3 years ago, our meeting area was a small basement, with no partitions available to help with Patrol meetings and activities. When we wanted to meet outside, we had to clear it with the athletic teams first, as we alsways seemed to be in their way, and, "their moms complained that we were distracting them while they chit chatted during practice". Now, we get our share of time outside. We have a better meeting place (not perfect, but a lot better).

 

Until almost 2 years ago, all of our equipment had to be stored at a leader's house, and our trailer was parked in the parking lot of one of our dad's business, because the CO wouldn't give us space to store anything. After a new barn was built (my son was instrumental in completing this as his Eagle project), we now have space for two trailers, and all of our gear (we do hope that no one tells them that techically, THEY own the gear. It's better that they don't know this).

 

How did this improvement happen? I, and a few other adults in our Troop, MADE it happen. We went to every one of their Committee meetings and asked to be allowed to report on the status of the Troop. We developed a PowerPoint presentation of the things we do - both adventure and service, and showed it to them. We had boys feed them at one of their meetings (this was a big one). We asked for more opportunities to do service projects for them. When they could think of things for us to do, we suggested projects that saved them thousands of dollars. And probably the most effective thing we did was ask to allow some of the products of the Troop - five of the boys who had graduated from the program, four of them Eagles, to speak about what THEIR Scouting program had meant to each boy. All were impressed with these guys, but our West Point Cadet, newly accepted at the time, made biggest impression.

 

Is our relationship utopian? Oh my gosh, no. Will it ever be? Pretty doubtful. But it has gotten 5,000% better than it was. And that's because we made it happen. A common thing we have recently been trying to get our Scouts to accept (see the thread "A Patrol of Difficult Scouts") is that each of us can only control our own actions, not the actions of anyone else. We've had to live that belief in dealing with our CO. We used to think they were worthless, that they did nothing for us. It wasn't until WE acted to improve the relationship that it got better.

 

Mark

[Bob White 20]

The pack and the troop is their business. They may ignore you now but you can be sure that has not been the case through te entire 50 year history. At some point they wanrted scouting thats how it got there. But at some point the relationship was lost. You know it is supposed to be there, they do not. It will be up to your leaders to re-establish that relationship. Until you do you will never be seen in their eyes as "their Pack" but as the pack that meetes 'there'. Which is better for the boys, and the program? When you are "their" pack, you don't have to fight for a meeting place and time, you get financial support, you get membership support, you have a parent that cares about your future.

 

Too often leaders settle for bemoaning the state of the relationship, "well we send them an invitation to Blue and Gold once a year but no one ever comes" I have never gone to a strangers party, and I doubt I ever will. But if a friend invites me, I go.

 

Every year when a unit charters it reqires the signature of the Charter oranization's leader, what is called the Institutional Head. Unless you are letting someone else inappropriately sign that contract with the BSA there is no way that you charter organization doesn't know the unit is theirs.

 

Every year that charter requires you to have a Committee chair and at least 2 committee members and none can be Den leaders or other program leaders. Unless you have falsified that information every pack has a committee. If they aren't doing the job then replace them. But to try to operate without a committee is simply dying a slow death but dying none the less.

 

The program works when you work the whole program.

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Eamonn 61]

About eight years ago when I became District Commish. I noticed that as a District that we were not doing enough to cultivate a good working relationship with our chartered partners. I heard and listened to all the moans and groans from the units that things were not good. Sad to say I never got to hear the other side of the problem unless there was a problem. I did ask the Field Director to remind all the DE's that they should be meeting with the Executive Officer at least once a year. He said that he would. But nothing seemed to happen.

Then something in the District was not working and the Scout Exec. made the mistake of telling me that it was my district. Now I of course know that this is not the case. However I thought that I would make hay while the sun was shining. I informed our DE (Who I think the world of.) That I wanted to see all the agreements that the Council and the Chartered Organization sign updated. She wasn't overjoyed and as it turned out there were Executive Officers that she had never met. Where possible I rode along with her and when we met with the Executive Officers I reminded them that their rep was invited to each and every District Meeting. I also set up a date for them to meet with the Unit Commish and where possible the District Commish. At these meetings the Commissioner Staff go over the high lights of what the unit has done: How many went to camp. Advancement reports and that sort of thing.

We now send a post card to all the Chartered Reps. reminding them of the where and when the District Meeting is to be held. Even though it is the same place and the same time each month. If they are not there I send the minutes of the meeting to the Chartered Rep and the Executive Officer. I also invite them both to a Bar-B-Que that the district has during summer camp and we do a tour of the camp.

All of this is a lot of hard work. But it is working. This year we don't have any dropped units and attendance of chartered reps. at the meeting has increased by 400%.

I am working to see what the Relationships Department at national can do in the way of sending the Organizations updates and news that has to do with whatever faith or organization they are in. We have made a lot of progress with the VFW in our area. So much so that they have made me an honorary life time member.

It is a long road but we are getting there. A real big part of it is open lines of communication. We are looking into a training for our charter representatives.

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

Congrats Eamonn

 

As my father-in-law the stone mason would tell you "Anyone fool can knock a building down, but it takes a craftsman to build one."

 

Bob

[evmori 11]

Our Troop has been chartered at the same church since it's inception in 1912. Sounds great, huh! Well, all we get is a place to meet and a room to store our gear. And they are now trying to take away our room to store our gear! So as far as support goes we get minimal!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Blaze66 10]

Well I went home last night and did some soul searching and then some research (phone calls) to see exactly how the pack and troop was organized at our CO in the first place. Seems they never really made a decision that they wanted scouts as a part of thier church. In a sense that someone in the CO said "hey lets make scouts a part of our youth ministries". Yes they did make the decision to let someone use the basement to hold scout meetings. A pack and troop at another church folded some 10 years previous. One of the church members and some of his friends (non church members) needed a place to start the pack and troop up and the CR we have now said well hey we have a basement in our church that isnt being used ill see if we can meet there. He went to the decons and they said sure as long as it doesnt cost us anything or doesnt effect how or when we need to use the basement. And thats pretty much how we came into being some 15 or 16 years ago. The CO has never really given us much support. Now as far as do we support the CO? Definately Yes! Once a year we host a camp out complete with games and meals for all the youth in the church. Once a year we not only participate in scout sunday with the church, WE as a troop and pack RUN the service for the day. Once a month we do a cleanup of the church grounds. Twice a year we do a "spring cleaning" of the whole grounds. When the church wants something cleaned inside or has manual labor projects they always call upon us to do it. We have numerous Eagle projects that have benifited the church or made improvements to the church grounds. Twice a year the church does food sales and we as a troop and pack always assist with either serving or traffic control or have even done ticket/plate sales for them. I even started last year doing a buliten board in the vestibule of the church and posting pictures and stuff from our latest service project/ outings so the church as a whole could see what we were doing. People from our CO are always invited to attend special events and ceremonies we have and we have offered open invitation for them to come to regular meetings and see what goes on. All for nothing. I think in the last 9 year I have been doing Arrow of Light ceremonies for the pack, the pastor of the church came once. He has never been to a Blue and Gold or a pack meeting. None of the other people from the CO have ever come. We have never had anyone from the CO come to a troop COH or Eagle Ceremony. I say no one but its not compleatly true because me, my wife and our CR are all members of this church but I don't really include us because we are there for the pack/troop not representing the CO. So it's not for a lack of us supporting our CO that we get no support from them. Honestly I think they just have way too much on their plate to deal with us. Over the last three years they have been way too busy trying to put together a youth ministries program (even though I think they could have accomplished the same goal by throwing their support into us.) Before that it was some other major project in the church. Now its a major building renovation and new construction project. All these things just drain them of time, money and energy and I think they just don't want or don't have the time to deal with us.

[fotoscout 15]

So far we have learned that, So 98% of units do not operate like yours, is incorrect.

 

Based on this thread, the number may be more like 50% for the units operate with a less than beneficial relationship with their CO.

 

How about Committee strength?

 

[Bob White 20]

OK realworld, by the book whatever you want to call it,here is where your trouble began. Volunteers can't "move" a unit. It is not theirs to move. Unit volunteers are not trained in how to start a unit, but there are people at the district level who are. Since the district was by-passed during the "move" the charter organization concept was never explained to the pastor of the church, the COR was never told of his or her duties, a commitee was never formed. This pack was lossing ground from the day it started. It sounds like you had a fine program but it was like a good house build on a faulty foundation. No matter how good the house appeared on the outside, it was destined to collapse.

 

A healthy foundation is vital to a scout unit as welll as a home. There are administrative supports that must be solidly in place to insure the longevity of the unit. They never existed in your case.

 

Even if you talk others into becoming leaders,unless the foundation is repaired, you are selling them a dangerous home. The Charter Organization needs to make a decision. They either repair the home or they close it, and let the families move to a quality structure they can enjoy.

 

Get your DE involved. Train your Charter Organization Representtive. You are the scout program that meets "there", You need to become "their" Scout program.

 

Good Luck,

BW

[Fat Old Guy 11]

"OK realworld, by the book whatever you want to call it,here is where your trouble began. Volunteers can't "move" a unit. It is not theirs to move."

 

Bobo Blanco, you get caught up in semantics but then chastise others for doing the same.

 

I'm sure that they didn't "move" the unit. We all know that units don't "move." Some units died and the former members who wanted to stay involved in Scouting found a new CO. I'm sure that the District team for starting new units got involved and all the right paperwork was signed. I'm sure that the CO had no intention of doing anything other than providing a basement. Is this ideal? No but I'm sure that there are many units that wouldn't exist without COs like this.

 

In fact the CO for my Troop has done little more than provide us with a meeting hall for about 20 years.

[CubsRgr8 10]

My younger son's pack is chartered to a School Friends Of Scouting group. It is a legal corporation, but it really doesn't exist. It was created to take over the charter from the elementary school's PTA when PTAs nationally were dropping BSA charters due to insurance liability concerns. The relationship between the CO and its pack is pretty intimate, because most pack leaders hold positions in the CO corporation.

 

My older son's troop has been chartered to the same Methodist church since 1922. The troop is provided with its own storage room and allowed exclusive use of the basement fellowhip hall on Tuesday evenings. The troop in return hosts Scout Sunday (complete with a free pancake brunch) and performs someservice work for the church, including an Eagle project every other year or so. My take on its relationship with its troop is benign neglect, which is too bad, because it could be so much more.

[EagleInKY 14]

We have a pretty good relationship with our CO, but part of that is because we're just one year old. They still remember what they signed up for. Our COR regularly attends troop meetings - not as a participant, he's just "there". He does a lot of the maintenance work around the church, so he's usually piddling around the building while we're meeting. He tries to attend Pack meetings and COH when possible. He and his wife attended the pack's B&G this year.

 

However, while that sounds great, the sad part is that the leadership of the church has grown less interested. The pastor that was there when we started the relationship was very pro-scouting. He attended much like the present COR does. He's gone now, and the new pastor hasn't recognized our existence even once. We've invited him to several things, but not even an RSVP. On Scout Sunday, he never even mentioned the 20 or so scouts + families that were in attendance. So, I'm a little disappointed with him.

 

Given all that, compared to my previous experiences and units around me, I think we have an above-average relationship with our CO.