Can a slow-working Webelos scout choose to just do Arrow of Light?

[ntc]

I have two boys who have been very slow getting their Webelos requirements done. They have about 3 more months left in the program before they move on to be 11-year-old scouts in an LDS scout troop. They have both completed a few adventures in the Webelos program . . . but we're having a planning meeting soon to try to light a fire under both them and the parents, to see if they can get any ranks completed. Could they, at this point, having had about 9 months in the program but only 3 months left, just decide to go for their Arrow of Light instead of the Webelos Rank? Then they could use the Adventures they completed for the Webelos Rank as electives for the Arrow of Light Requirements?

 

[Eagle94-A1]

I know LDS units do things a little differently, i.e. no Tigers; Wolves are age 8; Bears age 9; and Webelos age 10, and I do not know how the new program affected the LDS format.

 

BUT under the new Cub Scout program, Webelos is not needed to earn AOL. BUT they need to do the new Adventures to get the AOL badge.

[vumbi]

First of all, welcome to the forums! And thanks for posing that question. I had never even considered that possibility. It is a really interesting alternative and I appreciate Eagle94's answer.

[Eagle94-A1]

Vumbi,

 

Actually my first year Webelos pointed it out to me. When he got his new book, he read it, and told me he didn't need to earn Webelos to get his AOL. So he was going to skip it and go directly to AOL so he can move up in May at 10.5 years.

 

Then he changed his mind and decide to stick with his friends.

[vumbi]

LOL, he's probably going to end up as an attorney! Thanks

[blw2]

Yep, I'm not as familiar with the new program.... & I know nothing of the LDS twists...

But there's nothing that requires any rank to be earned for the next (with the exception of the old AOL award).  If a boy was lazy and didn't finish Wolf, he could still earn Bear the next year.

 

Regardless, this is cubs.  Aside from doing their best to do what they think is justifiable and right, who cares.  It's cubs.  It's not that critical.  It's more important to build character and have fun while they are doing it.

[SeattlePioneer]

<<Regardless, this is cubs.  Aside from doing their best to do what they think is justifiable and right, who cares.  >> 

 

 

Generally speaking, I agree.

 

But you need to consider the affect of this on other boys in the den or pack who are working hard to complete requirements.  It can be VERY discouraging to see another boy skate and receive a coveted award that another boy has worked very hard for.  I would take that affect quite seriously.

 

And the affect of the boy who gets the award should be considered as well.  If he learns that poor performance leads to reward,  he might well learn that lesson too.  I would take that quite seriously as well.  

 

​Finally,  there is nothing wrong with not receiving the AOL.  

 

Fairly often I encounter adults who apologize for not earning Eagle when they were boys.  m I tell them (and I believe)  that the most important rank in Scouting is First Class.  Boys usually enter Scouting with the aim of becoming competent hikers and campers,  which is what the 1st class award symbolizes.

 

Eagle is fine for those who want Extra Credit.  But the real achievement in BSA should be obtained in the course of earning First class,  in my opinion.

 

Usually,  those adults are a lot happier after I make those comments.

[blw2]

you are right @@SeattlePioneer.  For what it's worth...My last sentence points to how I feel about it.... My focus is building character.  IMHO, good character doesn't mean getting credit for work not done.  Doesn't mean pencil whipping.  My son gets that, and I think most scouts do too.  I agree with you about how discouraging it is to see the other boy get pencil whipped through.  That element of character, to me is the biggest deal of all in this stuff.

 

and the thing about AOL being such a "coveted award".  The folks in my pack have always made a huge deal out of it.  A big point about it being the "Highest Award in Cub Scouting" (said with chest puffed out proudly), and how hard it is and all of that.  My son is among the last group to earn it under the old program.  Honestly, I don't think it was all that big of a deal to get, and I don't think he does either - despite all the pomp and glory over it his 4-1/2 years in cubs.  He was finished with it last year, with the exception of the time requirement and the troop visits, which ticked by easy peasy this year, and he earned it when the calendar flipped to December. No big deal.  I wonder how it will be presented for the groups in the future coming through the new program of it being a "rank", and not some prestigious "award".

[Eagle94-A1]

<<Regardless, this is cubs.  Aside from doing their best to do what they think is justifiable and right, who cares.  >> 

 

 

Generally speaking, I agree.

 

But you need to consider the affect of this on other boys in the den or pack who are working hard to complete requirements.  It can be VERY discouraging to see another boy skate and receive a coveted award that another boy has worked very hard for.  I would take that affect quite seriously.

 

And the affect of the boy who gets the award should be considered as well.  If he learns that poor performance leads to reward,  he might well learn that lesson too.  I would take that quite seriously as well.  

 

​Finally,  there is nothing wrong with not receiving the AOL.  

 

Fairly often I encounter adults who apologize for not earning Eagle when they were boys.  m I tell them (and I believe)  that the most important rank in Scouting is First Class.  Boys usually enter Scouting with the aim of becoming competent hikers and campers,  which is what the 1st class award symbolizes.

 

Eagle is fine for those who want Extra Credit.  But the real achievement in BSA should be obtained in the course of earning First class,  in my opinion.

 

Usually,  those adults are a lot happier after I make those comments.

 

 I agree with you, and think the new changes greatly diminish the AOL and the work of those who have been with the program a while. But the new rules are the new rules. We cannot add nor subtract them.

[Southpaw]

@@ntc  As an LDS scouter, here are my recommendations:

 

If it is they have just not been interested then I would just keep working toward finishing the Webelos rank.  However, if the Cub Scouts had been motivated and are now just running out of time due to extenuating circumstances, then I would look at pushing the Arrow of Light.  Either way you choose to go the most important thing is to make it fun.  If we lose a Scout at the Cub level; then it is very difficult to get them to engage in Scouting once they become Deacons, and they are more likely to fall away from the church as they get older.  

 

Also I recommend completing the Scouting Adventure, it will greatly help the Cub Scouts transition to Boy Scouts.  But, do keep in mind, that even though your Webelos do not camp, the Scouting Adventure still requires that they participate in a day outing with a troop.  Fortunately, Klondike session is starting so there are some opportunities to hook up with a troop.

[vumbi]

Actually, the Webelos in this unit go camping at least twice a year, sometimes up to four times. Two of those are family campouts just for the pack. Others are with the troop at camporees and such. Is this not also true for LDS units?

[fred johnson]

I know LDS units do things a little differently, i.e. no Tigers; Wolves are age 8; Bears age 9; and Webelos age 10, and I do not know how the new program affected the LDS format.

 

I envy you.  Wish it was that way here too. 

[blw2]

Side note question....

It used to be that the AOL award would let a scout join a troop earlier (at a younger age).

 

I assume this was as a perk for having tenure as an active scout, along with the assumption that he has proven himself ready to be a scout, and with a head start over a boy off the street that was never a cub scout or a cub that didn't go through the 1-1/2 year cycle of WEBELOS.

 

Has there been any indication that the Boy Scout joining requirements will change?  If not this it seems would in affect de-value the WEBELOS rank as well as the AOL?

 

(again, not that it matters much to me, just a thought for the sake of discussion)

[gumbymaster]

Technically, the Boy Scout "joining" requirements did change, effective Janaury 2016.

 

The biggest difference is that "Scout" is now a rank.

 

There are some minor additions and tweeks to what the Scout is expected to know, the details can be found ...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/2016BoyScoutRequirements_8.14.2015.pdf

 

Most Webelos earning the [new] Arrow of Light, should be able to complete these easily.

 

As for the original questions, like others, I'm not as skilled in the specifics of how the one-year webelos program works within the LDS units, but for other units, say a boy in 4th grade worked on, but did not complete the Webelos badge; it is my understanding that any adventures he earned could be use to fulfil the elective requirements for the AOL (since they technically were not used for the Webelos Badge).

[Southpaw]

@@vumbi  The instructions from the LDS church are that "No Scout sponsored overnight camping should be planned for boys under age 11."  Scout Handbook for church Units page 4 section 6.1  However, the Cub Scouts can and are expected to participate in day time activities.