Stupid Cooking Question

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Ok this question came about last night becasue of a conversation I had with Oldest. While it affects him immediately, I see this affecting pretty much everyone but 4 people in the troop. I haven't talked to my troop's leadership about it yet, and neither has he. But I think I know what the SM will tell him, and know that on this board we have a good grasp on things.

 

Requirement 4E for First Class states:

 

On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup.

 

The patrols use duty rosters and rotate the duties for each meal, so one person normally doesn't cook three meals on a camp out, at the most 2. Only time we ever had 1 person cooking every meal was the Scout, who wants to be  chef, was working with the NSP on their first camp out. Has been with his patrol ever since.

 

My thinking is that the 3 First Class Scouts we had actually used multiple camp outs to get the three meals in.  I don't have a problem with Scouts taking multiple camp outs to meet this requirement since they are using the Patrol Method, but what are your thoughts?

Edited September 24, 2015 by Eagle94-A1

[ShootingSports 40]

Have you asked the Oldest to raise the issue with the patrol leader?  Having the youth ask to solve the problem might lead them to an interesting patrol meeting. 

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

No I haven't, I suggested he go directly to the SM. The reason for that is at the moment, and I stress at the moment,  only the adults sign off on requirements. Reason for that is rank. His PL and another are "Scout," and the 3rd PL is Tenderfoot. I personally am hopiong to change that in the near future.

 

EDITED: I'm one of those who think PLs should sign off on on the T-2-1 Requirements that they themsleves have mastered as evidenced by them holding that the rank they are signing off on.

 

I also think Scouts should be able to sit on BORs for T-2-1 like they use to in the 1972-1989 period.  One of the very few things I like about the Improved Scouting Program.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Eagle94-A1

[Krampus 696]

Sorry, our troop has one cook per patrol per camp out for this very reason. It is much easier to track/manage who does what from a PLs perspective. Instructors in our troop sign off on requirements but they must be documented. A scout must come to the instructor with a copy of his menu and his PL's signature that he cooked and supervised. All cooking requirements are on the menu template just as reminders.

[Stosh 3452]

In my patrols, the boys like using the Green Bar Bill (GBB) approach to patrol duties.  I haven't seen a duty roster for years.  Each boy has a specialty function he enjoys doing.  Obviously there's the PL and APL, then the Sctibe, the QM, then GrubMaster, Chaplain Aide, ActivityMaster, etc. 

 

The requirement is not designed for the old patrol-method program and thus a little tweaking is necessary.  The new boy needs advancement.  He works under the tutelage of the GrubMaster to design the menus, shop and cook the meals for the weekend, Friday night and Sunday morning he works with the GM as the assistant GM and maybe learns some new techniques, etc.  He works with the Chaplain Aide for the non-denominational prayer, etc.  

 

There's a lot that goes into the process before the boy actually takes on the cooking for the weekend.  Training in food prep and safety, nutrition and menus, fire building and stove safety   The GM can work with the boys as a class teaching them all these skillls and if it's the NSP boys doing the learning, why can't they offer their services to another patrol to do the cooking for them for advancement.  The intent of the requirement is to cook a day for a small group of boys.  Yes, it says for THEIR patrol, but THEIR patrol in this ad hoc culture could be for another patrol for the weekend.  I can live with that.  Then the GM can rotate around the patrols and support the newbie cooks all at the same time.

 

For me the intent of the requirements is to provide appropriate training and opportunity to use that training in an actual setting.

 

Let's say there are 4 patrols, one of them NSP.  With a mess hall summer camp it will take 4 years for the boys to get this requirement done in their own patrol at camporees (plop camping, otherwise the outing may make that process more difficult, canoeing, hiking, biking, etc.), but could knock that out with 2 camporees in one year otherwise.  The training could be done all at once in the NSP rather than 4 times, once in each patrol.  And the best troop GM could do the training, too. 

 

I guess I'm not ready to penalize the boys just because the requirement says YOUR patrol instead of A patrol.

[5yearscouter 52]

I think a scout should say he's working on this requirement and wants to be patrol cook the whole weekend.

Similarly if he's working on cooking merit badge he'd need/want to go ahead and do more cooking all at once rather than a meal here or there.

[Eagledad 2779]

There is no set answer. Let the scout do it how he wants: one meal on three camp outs, or all three on one camp out, or.........

 

The objective of the requirement is learning the skills. 

 

Barry

[scoutldr 732]

The requirement is pretty clear, as written.

[qwazse 4345]

Rosters are meant to be ignored.

 

Just ask to be cook for a full day (or three consecutive meals, if you all insert before suppertime).

I'm not against using multiple camp-outs, but that really drags things out. And each of the T2F requirements are best worked on over the span of a weekend.

Lot's of newbies? Plan more camp-outs -- especially, "back nine" camping with the patrol. Round here, some boys are counted on to be the weekend cook for dad's hunting camp. Getting them trained in their patrol is a boon to our families.

[Eagledad 2779]

The requirement is pretty clear, as written.

Yep, I forgot. "On one campout"

 

Thanks

[perdidochas 658]

Ok this question came about last night becasue of a conversation I had with Oldest. While it affects him immediately, I see this affecting pretty much everyone but 4 people in the troop. I haven't talked to my troop's leadership about it yet, and neither has he. But I think I know what the SM will tell him, and know that on this board we have a good grasp on things.

 

Requirement 4E for First Class states:

 

On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup.

 

The patrols use duty rosters and rotate the duties for each meal, so one person normally doesn't cook three meals on a camp out, at the most 2. Only time we ever had 1 person cooking every meal was the Scout, who wants to be  chef, was working with the NSP on their first camp out. Has been with his patrol ever since.

 

My thinking is that the 3 First Class Scouts we had actually used multiple camp outs to get the three meals in.  I don't have a problem with Scouts taking multiple camp outs to meet this requirement since they are using the Patrol Method, but what are your thoughts?

 

Well, the rules say "On one campout."  Sounds to me like the patrols need to change in order to fit that requirement.

Edited September 24, 2015 by perdidochas

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Yep IMHO, the requirement as written is not conducive to the patrol method and reeks of "one and done," as if the Scout only needs to do cooking on one campout. That's ok, my son can deal with it. He's got 15 weekend trips under his belt so far, loves camping, and can deal with this. His advancement, his responsibility.

 

Definately something the PLC needs to be aware of as it may change how the patrols have to do things. Old school leaders teaching old school methods. Also may present some challenges for those going to Philmont. Luckily we have approx. 7 - 8 trips between now and when they leave for them to meet the requirement as stated.

 

On a personal note, why the heck didn't national incorporate this new method in the ITOLS syllabus? And I love how in the BSHB they talk about folks doing the same thing for the entire weekend trip, but the sample Duty Roster is the traditional rotation method.

 

Thanks folks for the answers.

[Krampus 696]

I don't get "one and done". The requirements are written are clearly progressive against a boy's abilities coming in from Cubs. I think they fit perfectly in to the patrol method. Who is to say that a scout completes the requirement just by doing any of this once. Maybe he does not fully complete a requirement.

• Tenderfoot: [PL Method Link: The new scout learns how to assist in all aspects of patrol cooking and clean up. He is taught by his peers and learns how to set-up, prepare, cook, eat and clean as a unit. All boy-led]
  • On the campout, assist in preparing and cooking one of your patrol’s meals. Tell why it is important for each patrol member to share in meal preparation and cleanup, and explain the importance of eating together.
• Second Class: [PL Method Link: As the scout progresses he learns to take control of the patrol fire, and not just for cooking. He learns about more advanced cooking methods (stoves). He is given more advanced duties -- having spent several camp outs as an assistant cook -- and is allowed to chef two meals. He learns healthy food habits and avoids pop tarts and beef smokies. Again, this is all boy-led]
  • Use the tools listed in requirement 3c to prepare tinder, kindling,and fuel for a cooking fire.
  • Explain when it is appropriate to use a cooking fire. At an approved outdoor location and at an approved time, and using the tinder, kindling, and fuel wood from requirement 3d, demonstrate how to build a fire; light the fire, unless prohibited by local fire restrictions. After allowing the flames to burn safely for at least two minutes, safely extinguish the flames with minimal impact to the fire site.
  • Explain when it is appropriate to use a lightweight stove or propane stove. Set up a lightweight stove or propane stove; light the stove, unless prohibited by local fire restrictions. Describe the safety procedures for using these types of stoves.
  • On one campout, plan and cook one hot breakfast or lunch, selecting foods from the MyPlate food guide or the current USDA nutrition model. Explain the importance of good nutrition. Tell how to transport, store, and prepare the foods you selected.
• First Class: [PL Method Link: He's hit the big time. After learning all the basics, he's head chef. He plans it, prices it, buys it, packs it, cooks it. He's even got assistants now. He runs the show from beginning to end.]
  • Help plan a patrol menu for one campout that includes at least one breakfast, one lunch, and one dinner, and that requires cooking at least two of the meals. Tell how the menu includes the foods from the MyPlate food guide or the current USDA nutrition model and meets nutritional needs.
  • Using the menu planned in requirement 4a, make a list showing the cost and food amounts needed to feed three or more boys and secure the ingredients.
  • Tell which pans, utensils, and other gear will be needed to cook and serve these meals.
  • Explain the procedures to follow in the safe handling and storage of fresh meats, dairy products, eggs, vegetables, and other perishable food products. Tell how to properly dispose of camp garbage, cans, plastic containers, and other rubbish.
  • On one campout, serve as your patrol's cook. Supervise your assistant(s) in using a stove or building a cooking fire. Prepare the breakfast, lunch, and dinner planned in requirement 4a. Lead your patrol in saying grace at the meals and supervise cleanup.

This process seems ideal for the patrol method, IMHO. In our unit, new scouts wanting their tenderfoot cooking signed off have to contact their PL and instructors and let them know. During their helping they are evaluated by their leaders. Boy-led, Patrol method. Same for second and first class. Everything is witnessed, reviewed and signed off by the scouts. The adults are burning their own cobbler while this is happening.

[Eagle94-A1 2687]

Sorry, didn't read the Tenderfoot and Second Class requirements.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Eagle94-A1

[Krampus 696]

Sorry, didn't read the Tenderfoot and Second Class requirements.

 

Wait until you read the Camping and Cooking MB requirements. Camping is basically a repeat of first class reqs. The old pre-2014 cooking requirements has a scout cooking three times: patrol camping, hiking and home cooking. For the latter when they cook for family I encourage them to cook all three meals in one day so they get a feel for what mom and dad do for them.