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Basementdweller

My Final Post

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As far as forums go, this one is by far the most civil of any I have ever been on and that's nice.  That doesn't mean I haven't locked horns with others here and there, but there wouldn't be much value in a forum where everyone thought the same way.  We all have diverse backgrounds and all reside in different situations.  The dynamics of our units are as diverse as we all here are.  This is a good thing.

 

I'm thinking that at one point or another I've probably rubbed just about everyone the wrong way at one time or another over the past 10 years.  I've had my feathers ruffled and for the sake of being polite there are a few on the forum I no longer interact with.  There is an "ignore" button for such occasions.   :)

 

But there comes a time when certain dynamics come together that makes it feel like the deck is stacked against oneself and then it's time to move on to more productive endeavors.  Bob White simply disappeared.  Beavah is gone too.  Lost a couple recently, and these were respected key players.  

 

We are all volunteers on this forum and dealing with volunteers is far different than hanging out with friends, employment and other groupings in society.  One of the reasons people volunteer is because they truly believe they have something to offer the situation.  If that belief is lost, they're gone.

 

We make fun of some of the "good ol' boys" clubs in our areas of the world, but for some reason or another they don't seem to hang around this forum for very long.  The "good ol' boys" of the forum are the Bob Whites, the Beavahs, Old Grey Eagle and others who have a real passion for scouting.  Maybe once they are convinced that the tenor of that passion is passe and no longer needed, that speaks volumes of the value of their expertise as well.

 

Yeah, I promote boy-led, patrol-method ad nauseum some of the time.... no, lets say most of the time. and I may come on strong with the GBB training over what's put out there today, but there are those out there that need to know what the world of Scouting was like 50 years ago.  Yeah, I walked 2 miles to troop meetings, in the snow, uphill both ways, too.  But from those bits of information one can glean little nuggets of information that may rejuvenate a dying program out there somewhere in the world.  If it becomes obvious that this forum doesn't want that information any longer, I too will move on down the trail as well. 

Edited by Stosh

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I would like to thank a number of forumers who have guided me over the year.

 

Dessertrat,  Eamon, twocubs, Eagle99,  Fish,   Oldgreyeagle. goldwinger,

 

 

Lets just say that with their advice,  the inner city poor troop went from 6 members to over 50.    Moving from adult led/run to boy led and run.  I am proud of what that group of 6 have accomplished.   

 

Thank you.

 

 

Sadly I have seen a significant shift in all scouting forums that I don't care for and simply will not stand for without speaking out.    I see scouting moving from it's middle class base to the rich suburbs.    Requirement short cutting,  eagle chasing parents,  High dollar trips and Family adventure being the norm.  

 

Lost is the boy sized adventures,  the days exploring the creek or hanging with buds......My patrols are truly a band of brothers.  It makes me smile every outing to watch them in action.  I like to think that Dan Beard and Baden Powell are looking down on our program and smiling.

 

I wish you the best  

 

Basement

 

I applaud what you are doing and what you have done with your scouts and am sorry to see anyone leave this forum.  The more variety of opinions the better the discussion.

 

However, I feel your reference to "rich suburbs" is a barb directed at least in part at me based on your post here: http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/27653-getting-inexperienced-leaders-up-to-speed-faster/?p=425272If I offended you, that wasn't my intent.  Rather, I intended to provide more information to counter your assumptions and barbed comments about the quaility of my Troop's program and scouts.  I thought my posts were done in a very scoutlike way and the worst that I said was that you jumped to conclusions based on extremely limited information.  

 

In your parting shot, you again lump all "rich" suburban troops together as being failed models of scouting.  Like all sterotypes there may be some truth, but it fails to be accurate when applied across the board.  My troop is boy-led.  We don't short-cut requirements but make sure that scouts know the skills by learning, doing and teaching.  Parents don't drive Eagle, the scouts do.  We tell parents that it has to be the boy's decision.  Family camping?  Most of our scouts don't want their parents to come and we require new scouts to tent separately from their sons (200 feet) when they do come.

 

Also, we aren't a high cost / high adventure Troop.  Our typical outing costs $25 -- $10 for a campsite and $15 for food and supplies.  I took a week off from work this summer to spend 6 days backpacking 50 miles in New Hampshire with a band of boys -- the cost of the trip was $30 per boy ($25 for gas and $5 to cover the cost of maps - we only charged for gas because the trip was 300 miles each way).  Each boy provided their own food.  Our typical backpacking trip is free with each boy providing their own food.  We do day hikes and shakedown hikes at local parks for a cost of nothing.  Yes, some of our trips are more expensive -- maybe an additional $15 for kayaking, $25 for two-day canoe rental or $15 to do a COPE course.  

 

I realize that what works for my Troop may not work for Troops that are from lower socioeconomic and/or urban areas.  Nonetheless, I believe that all boys need scouting -- but not for the same reason.  A kid from a broken home, a kid who would rather play video games, a kid who's parents don't undertand him, a kid who's family struggles to make ends meet, a kid who's dad passed away, a kid who gets lost in the shuffle because he is one of six kids, a kid with learning disabilities... the list goes on.  

 

I wish you and your scouts the best of luck.

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I'm thinking that at one point or another I've probably rubbed just about everyone the wrong way at one time or another over the past 10 years.  I've had my feathers ruffled and for the sake of being polite there are a few on the forum I no longer interact with.  There is an "ignore" button for such occasions.   :)

 

But there comes a time when certain dynamics come together that makes it feel like the deck is stacked against oneself and then it's time to move on to more productive endeavors.  Bob White simply disappeared.  Beavah is gone too.  Lost a couple recently, and these were respected key players.  

 

We are all volunteers on this forum and dealing with volunteers is far different than hanging out with friends, employment and other groupings in society.  One of the reasons people volunteer is because they truly believe they have something to offer the situation.  If that belief is lost, they're gone.

 

We make fun of some of the "good ol' boys" clubs in our areas of the world, but for some reason or another they don't seem to hang around this forum for very long.  The "good ol' boys" of the forum are the Bob Whites, the Beavahs, Old Grey Eagle and others who have a real passion for scouting.  Maybe once they are convinced that the tenor of that passion is passe and no longer needed, that speaks volumes of the value of their expertise as well.

 

Yeah, I promote boy-led, patrol-method ad nauseum some of the time.... no, lets say most of the time. and I may come on strong with the GBB training over what's put out there today, but there are those out there that need to know what the world of Scouting was like 50 years ago.  Yeah, I walked 2 miles to troop meetings, in the snow, uphill both ways, too.  But from those bits of information one can glean little nuggets of information that may rejuvenate a dying program out there somewhere in the world.  If it becomes obvious that this forum doesn't want that information any longer, I too will move on down the trail as well. 

 

@@Stosh, I think you have some  great ideas and I hope the forum doesn't lose sight of all the experience and passion you have.  I hope I didn't indicate that I don't value your ideas, because that is not at all what was intended by my comments.

 

I remember all those guys from when I first came on the forum and started as SM 10 years ago.  Great insight from them as well.  They could be a little rough around the edges, but generally good guys with a ton of passion.

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Basement Dweller,

 

We've often squabbled, but I've always respected you.  I'm trailing behind you as to my forum participation.  Lurking more and contributing less.  I understand the emotional commitment.

 

Should we meet on the AT, I'm not sure that we'll recognize each other.  

 

Happy trails, my friend,

JoeBob

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Jeez!  Try to get away to the beach for a couple days and everything goes to hell around here.

 

Sorry you're checking out Base.  Varying points of view is a good thing.  As someone here is fond of noting, "all Scouting is local."  We're all in different localities.  I happen to be in one where paying for stuff isn't an issue, but that doesn't mean we don't have challenges.  But we all deal with our Scouts as they come to us.

 

Best wishes to you and your troop.

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Base,

 

I've been missing your input in the past many months.  I wish you well where ever you may go.

There are many troop out there trying to keep adventures boy-sized, including mine.  Maybe we'll all meet up in the same place.

 

Good luck!

 

Koolaidman

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who was the other recent drop.... I missed it?

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I think it is best if we do not toss around the names of other posters, especially those who have left and are not around to respond. I think BD is entitled to a little leeway on this, since this was his "final post." There's also nothing wrong with wishing BD well. But otherwise, this forum is for talking about Scouting.

 

I would also point out that in the past few weeks, at least two "regular posters" (besides BD) have left this forum, one of whom was a moderator, and if we go back to the beginning of August, at least one more regular poster has left. All left for different reasons, if a reason was even given. And if you go back more months and years you will find that people are leaving - and joining - this forum all the time. Like any other group, either on or off the Internet. (I myself once left this forum for about two years, although I didn't know I was leaving at the time I left. One day I didn't look at the forum and a day turned into a week, a month, a year and then about two years. Then I came back.)

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People come and go quietly all the time on forums.  Usually they don't make any big announcements.  I'm thinking there may be a reason for that.

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As far as forums go, this one is by far the most civil of any I have ever been on and that's nice.  That doesn't mean I haven't locked horns with others here and there, but there wouldn't be much value in a forum where everyone thought the same way.  We all have diverse backgrounds and all reside in different situations.  The dynamics of our units are as diverse as we all here are.  This is a good thing.

 

I'm thinking that at one point or another I've probably rubbed just about everyone the wrong way at one time or another over the past 10 years.  I've had my feathers ruffled and for the sake of being polite there are a few on the forum I no longer interact with.  There is an "ignore" button for such occasions.   :)

 

I have always learned far more from those I have disagreements with then I ever learned from like minded individuals.

It is in the attempt to understand their side of an argument, that I come to better understand my own thoughts.  And in the end, sometimes, if there really is a right or wrong answer, and I wasn't the one who was right, I learn to change my position.

 

Groupthink is a pox on growth.  I would be bored to death in a room of myselves (even if I am an interesting guy :D ).

 

When we lose a voice, our chorus grows quieter.

 

In the end, we all share a similar goal of providing the best program we can for the youth under our charge - even if we disagree how that should be done.

  • Upvote 2

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People come and go quietly all the time on forums.  Usually they don't make any big announcements.

That is true of Internet forums in general, including this forum. I would say that this forum probably has a higher proportion of "quiet" departures, as opposed to those accompanied by "big announcements", than the average Internet forum. In contrast, on Wikipedia (which is partly an encyclopedia but also partly a forum, on the behind-the-scenes pages) there is a certain kind of departure commonly known as a "ragequit." I am not sure that we have had any (voluntary) departures that have quite reached that level of drama. Maybe a couple have come close, but none recently, that I am aware of.

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That is true of Internet forums in general, including this forum. I would say that this forum probably has a higher proportion of "quiet" departures, as opposed to those accompanied by "big announcements", than the average Internet forum. In contrast, on Wikipedia (which is partly an encyclopedia but also partly a forum, on the behind-the-scenes pages) there is a certain kind of departure commonly known as a "ragequit." I am not sure that we have had any (voluntary) departures that have quite reached that level of drama. Maybe a couple have come close, but none recently, that I am aware of.

 

Ragequit.  I like that one.  And I noticed one of the recent quitters really hasn't quit - just changed his name and was on as recently as this morning.  Lots of it is just bluster - the online version of taking one's ball and going home - only to be peeking out the window watching the game and wishing he was still a part of it.

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"Gone" formerly known as BadWolf

oh, I hate to see him go.... he was positive contributor and a real loss there from the discussion.....  I wonder what set him off.

 

People come and go quietly all the time on forums.  Usually they don't make any big announcements.  I'm thinking there may be a reason for that.

 

 

That is true of Internet forums in general, including this forum. I would say that this forum probably has a higher proportion of "quiet" departures, as opposed to those accompanied by "big announcements", than the average Internet forum. In contrast, on Wikipedia (which is partly an encyclopedia but also partly a forum, on the behind-the-scenes pages) there is a certain kind of departure commonly known as a "ragequit." I am not sure that we have had any (voluntary) departures that have quite reached that level of drama. Maybe a couple have come close, but none recently, that I am aware of.

Very true.... but it's the very active ones that don't insult others that tend to be missed.

I took a break a few months ago, but that was driven by unit politics and my need to get my mind out of scouting a while, not by taking offense to something here.....

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