Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I treat others the way they treat me, Brewmeister. I have standards, too. Link to post Share on other sites
Fehler 118 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 There are many religions that disrespect the beliefs of others, such as the Lutheran-Missouri Synod. Their prohibition of blended services, which I assume would include "Scouts Own" interfaith services, came up very recently: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/13/lcms-newtown-interfaith-prayers-reopens-old-wounds-for-missouri-synod_n_2681340.html If we allow a group that refuses to mix religiously with others, why can't we allow those that refuse to mix religiously at all? Link to post Share on other sites
ghjim 76 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Merlyn, you're not paying attention. Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. If he respects the beliefs of others, he grants value to their belief system, and he isn't really an atheist. He's just calling himself an atheist because it's fashionable, or he hates televangelists, or whatever. There's a difference between someone keeping their mouth shut and someone truly respecting the beliefs of others. Christianity is a fine example. Yes, there are many, many christians who think wiccans, jews, buddhists, muslims, even each other are all damned to eternal hellfire and don't mind saying it loudly and frequently. Yes, I believe the BSA should exclude them too. 100%. However, there is nothing in the new testament that says all members of religion X are damned to hellfire. That's an invention of man. Same reason as to why christians gleefully persecuted jews for centuries. Jesus certainly didn't tell them to. But, there is no requirement that to be a Christian, you MUST consider all other religions to be false...there is only the requirement that you accept Jesus as your savior and that He lights the way towards salvation. I can respect wicca, islam, judeaism, etc without following them. Anyone who says they are Christian but does not respect the beliefs of others is doing so out of ignorance and/or prejudice. Just my opinion. That being said, that's a seperate discussion. The discussion here is that atheists DO subscribe to the phiolosphy that ALL religions are false, and if you consider my religion to be false as a matter of doctrine, you cannot respect it. You can't do your best to do your Duty to God, because as an atheist, you won't even try. No atheist can try and still be an atheist. If you ARE trying, you're not an atheist anymore. You're undecided. "Undecided" is just fine with the BSA. A struggling wiccan, christian, jew, muslim or buddhist can still be doing his or her best. "Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others" Not sure I agree with this. I don't have very much respect for the beliefs of Evangelical Christians. But I do have respect for their right to believe what they do. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I'm sure that some atheists respect the beliefs of others, but the one who posts here most prolifically is an anti-theist who prefers to denigrate religious beliefs as being foolish worship of a "magic man in the clouds." Hardly respectful or tolerant. I realize I am sometimes guilty of being the pot that calls the kettle 'black' but here I note that the 'tit-for-tat' approach to interactions tends to escalate things away from 'scoutlike' while the 'turn-the-other-cheek' tends to moderate things. I guess that also depends on what 'cheek' we're talking about, lol. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2784 Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 >>I realize I am sometimes guilty of being the pot that calls the kettle 'black' but here I note that the 'tit-for-tat' approach to interactions tends to escalate things away from 'scoutlike' while the 'turn-the-other-cheek' tends to moderate things. I guess that also depends on what 'cheek' we're talking about, lol.<< Or 'tongue-in-cheek' for that matter. Without voice or facial expressions, sometimes tongue-n-cheek post can appear tit-for-tat even when that is the furthest thing from the poster's intent. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
acco40 95 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 "I treat others the way they treat me . . " Merlyn, try treating others the way you would like to be treated. Doesn't always work but give it a chance. I do sympathize with your use of logic with those who vehemently refuse to understand logic. It must get tiresome. However, I must object to one of your comments. "You are a PERFECT example of how the BSA encourages bigotry against atheists." While it is difficult to determine the cause of bigotry against atheists, I would venture to guess that the BSA is not a primary cause - similar to bigotry against homosexuals, while the BSA may not do much to prevent such actions, I don't think it is a primary cause. Link to post Share on other sites
Brewmeister 132 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 If I decided to wander onto an anti-theism forum somewhere and start calling everyone a bunch of godless bigots I would expect a little dissent and wouldn't constantly cry about it. Boo hoo. Link to post Share on other sites
moosetracker 132 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Merlyn treats me just fine, I know he treats others here fine also, then he gets a little heated with others, but normally over a arguement or statement they are making.. If you feel you have had that treatment from him Brewmeister, I would question what you may have said to Merlyn to get such a reaction. Link to post Share on other sites
Peregrinator 85 Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 "Merlyn, you're not paying attention." Yes, I am. You're clearly bigoted against atheists. "]Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others" Someone who is truly Jewish cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Catholic cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Muslim cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Bigot. You are a PERFECT example of how the BSA encourages bigotry against atheists. And people criticized ME for removing school-sponsored BSA units... It is not "bigotry" to not respect someone's beliefs. Why would one respect something he believes is not true? I certainly would not expect an atheist (or Jew or Muslim) to respect my religious beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 "Merlyn, you're not paying attention." Yes, I am. You're clearly bigoted against atheists. "]Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others" Someone who is truly Jewish cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Catholic cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Muslim cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Bigot. You are a PERFECT example of how the BSA encourages bigotry against atheists. And people criticized ME for removing school-sponsored BSA units... No, but it is bigotry to say that an entire class of people are incapable of showing respect. Link to post Share on other sites
Peregrinator 85 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 "Merlyn, you're not paying attention." Yes, I am. You're clearly bigoted against atheists. "]Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others" Someone who is truly Jewish cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Catholic cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Muslim cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Bigot. You are a PERFECT example of how the BSA encourages bigotry against atheists. And people criticized ME for removing school-sponsored BSA units... Good thing he didn't say that. Link to post Share on other sites
NJCubScouter 1389 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Peregrinator says: It is not "bigotry" to not respect someone's beliefs. Why would one respect something he believes is not true? I certainly would not expect an atheist (or Jew or Muslim) to respect my religious beliefs. Leaving aside what is and is not bigotry, I will point out that respecting the beliefs of others, including their religious beliefs, is part of being a Scout (and a Scouter.) In explaining the meaning of "A Scout is Reverent", the Scout handbook says: "He respects the beliefs of others." Of course, I think that's the right way to treat other people even if the Scout handbook didn't say so. (And one could get into a discussion of how much the BSA itself respects the religious beliefs of its members and CO's who believe it is wrong to exclude gay people and/or atheists.) But I think those who say that they do not respect the religious beliefs others need to take a long look at where they stand in relation to the Scout Law. Link to post Share on other sites
Merlyn_LeRoy 72 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 "Merlyn, you're not paying attention." Yes, I am. You're clearly bigoted against atheists. "]Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others" Someone who is truly Jewish cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Catholic cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Someone who is truly Muslim cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others. Bigot. You are a PERFECT example of how the BSA encourages bigotry against atheists. And people criticized ME for removing school-sponsored BSA units... "Someone who is truly atheist cannot, by definition, respect the beliefs of others" Thus saying an entire class of people (atheists) cannot respect the beliefs of others. Link to post Share on other sites
packsaddle 753 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Peregrinator says: It is not "bigotry" to not respect someone's beliefs. Why would one respect something he believes is not true? I certainly would not expect an atheist (or Jew or Muslim) to respect my religious beliefs. Leaving aside what is and is not bigotry, I will point out that respecting the beliefs of others, including their religious beliefs, is part of being a Scout (and a Scouter.) In explaining the meaning of "A Scout is Reverent", the Scout handbook says: "He respects the beliefs of others." Of course, I think that's the right way to treat other people even if the Scout handbook didn't say so. (And one could get into a discussion of how much the BSA itself respects the religious beliefs of its members and CO's who believe it is wrong to exclude gay people and/or atheists.) But I think those who say that they do not respect the religious beliefs others need to take a long look at where they stand in relation to the Scout Law. But I have to credit him with at least being honest about it. Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2784 Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Peregrinator says: It is not "bigotry" to not respect someone's beliefs. Why would one respect something he believes is not true? I certainly would not expect an atheist (or Jew or Muslim) to respect my religious beliefs. Leaving aside what is and is not bigotry' date=' I will point out that respecting the beliefs of others, including their religious beliefs, is part of being a Scout (and a Scouter.) In explaining the meaning of "A Scout is Reverent", the Scout handbook says: "He respects the beliefs of others." Of course, I think that's the right way to treat other people even if the Scout handbook didn't say so. (And one could get into a discussion of how much the BSA itself respects the religious beliefs of its members and CO's who believe it is wrong to exclude gay people and/or atheists.) But I think those who say that they do not respect the religious beliefs others need to take a long look at where they stand in relation to the Scout Law. [/quote'] I took Peregrinator’s quote to mean internal unexpressed respect. Despite how we may respect or feel about another person internally, the Scout Law is clear to how we outwardly show respect. Barry Link to post Share on other sites
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