Jump to content

Can Someone Explain To Me........

Recommended Posts

I took Eamonn's original questions to be more rhetorical than some of you apparently have. From this and other threads I know Eamonn understands and supports quality goals. Rather I believe what he was asking was, what is is about quality goals which would make some one trade their integrity to meet them?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 40
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic



I've missed this post yesterday and just tried to read everyone's responses. Please forgive me if I missed this being mentioned somewhere.


You eluded to it being a crew, but also had question marks. Are you sure it was a crew and not Learning for Life/Exploring? If it is a crew, then I go with Dsteele's comments about the pack, although it would be awful hard to run a program for a crew like that.


If it was LFL, I have noticed that United Way really likes this type of program and usually expects the council to invest some money here. There by assuring good relations with the United Way that covers that expense and then some.


Are there egregious acts committed in sake of the "numbers game"? I suppose so. Would I stand for such stuff? Not if I could help it. As to the numbers game I always am reminded of a statement I have in writing about the "Numbers Game". It goes something like this:


"Do we have a 'numbers game'? Yes we have a numbers game! We have TO MANY KIDS out there!

Too many kids on drugs and alcohol at every age level we serve.

Too many kids with no real freinds they can count on.

Too many kids Committing suicide because of a sense of failure, lack of direction, lack of freinds, sense of despair and a lack of people who care.

Too many kids lacking values consistent with society.

Too many kids who don't know God or anyone who does.


We have a numbers game all right... but when it is put in this perspective, it may well be the most important game in town"


Whenever I am reminded about quality district/council I always remember this statement and wonder, have we done everything we can to get kids in our programs, or have we settled for "good enough". I am particularly reminded when our district meets its goals and gives up trying for any more kids when possibilities arise.


Eamonn, sorry if I got off track here, but thought that this could be appropriate in hind site. Happy New Year



Link to post
Share on other sites

"I don't think that any district should describe a unit as being a "Quality Unit" without being familiar with the program."


The District does not "describe" a unit as being a "Quality Unit". National designates a unit as being quality based on the attainment of a set of measurable achievements.


The same holds true for Quality District and Quality Council. Just as Quality Unit is based on multiple elements, so are Quality District and Council designations. Every element is tied in some way to a number. How else could it be measurable?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don and I used to stand in the parking lot after meetings and kick the dirt while discussing such issues. We were volunteers. The people that were paid to do their job did not always do it the way or to the standards we thought it ought to be done. We got mad, angry and hostile about their failures.


Yes, we witnessed the wholesale signing up of kids in the schools just to make numbers. We pointed out to each other how wrong this was and how poor a program the council had to be able to get into such sad shape.


We didnt recognize that allot of our program in our district was done by both of us. We failed to point out that we didn't plan very well, so we flew by the seats of our pants. We failed to reach out and train others to do what we were doing. We failed to recruit others, and then to properly train and mentor them. We failed to point out that we liked being the "go to people" to gather the praise which should have gone to others. In short, we failed to do the things that we were supposed to be doing and holding to the standards we wanted of others.


I am not proud of my failures in Scouting or anywhere else. I have learned from some of my failures and am regrettably sorry for not understanding how my failures affected others.


The last year before leaving, Don and I quit meeting to discuss the problems of others. I started reaching out to recruit, train, and mentor. I saw some of the best programs ever during that year. They were done by some of the newest folks in the district. They did programs that were far beyond anything that Don and I ever did. Being in the background and giving assistance was a difficult job but I received a kind of personal pride in doing that work.


I can honestly say that I now believe in good program and how it is achieved. As for the numbers, hopefully there will be a good response to good programs or it will become easier to recruit and train others because of it. Nonetheless, I learned something important from my experience. Fuzzy Bear


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The District does not "describe" a unit as being a "Quality Unit". National designates a unit as being quality based on the attainment of a set of measurable achievements."


What kinds of achievements are these. It isn't simply having x% more people registered than last year, is it? You mentioned multiple elements, so I assume that there are more. What are the others?


Yes, "Quality Unit" is a description. It may be based on national guidelines and it may be based on features that have little to do with quality itself, but it is a description.

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 4 Quality unit recognitions. One for each of the traditional scouting programs. They are available for downloading at numerous locations on the Internet.


The form for Quality Council and District recognitions are available from you local scout office. The basic requirements are the same but the specific goals are dependent on the previous years statistics in your specific district or council.


They include measurements on: membership, training, finances, unit commissioners, units, manpower, there are one or two others but that's all that come to mind at the moment.


It is interesting to note that what is measured are the kinds of things that Fuzzy Bear said he started doing once he stopped meeting to complain about things. He notes that in improving these areas he saw some of the best scouting ever in his area.


That's what these mile markers are all about.


Link to post
Share on other sites





I think it was pretty clear what Eammon was saying. Some people have a tendency to "interpret" a post so that it asks what they want it to ask, and then they answer that question, instead of answering the question that the person really was asking... or in this case, respond to the rhetorical question as if it were a different, "real" question.


Well, usually just one person, not some people.

Link to post
Share on other sites

DS, you are right, the comment about "professionals" was out of line. I apologize. I think I made clear that I was talking about only the professionals who are doing what we are talking about, but even there, singling out professionals is incorrect, since volunteers can place the emphasis where it does not belong just as easily. What I really meant was "all those people who are doing what we are talking about."

Link to post
Share on other sites



No need to apologize. No offense was taken. I just wanted to point out that blaming the professionals isn't always accurate.


Now I'll see if I can find the requirements for Quality Council so I can post them. I don't think Adrianvs is going to be satisfied until I do so . . . and he shouldn't be. I think everyone should know what the standards are because that's the best way to get everyone on the same page, or at least closer to it.



Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the 2003 requirements for Quality Council. The * means it is required.


"A National Quality Council must achieve six of eight objectives to qualify. Starred (*) items are required. Note: Carry out all percentages to one decimal place.


*1. More than 60 percent of total units achieved the Quality Unit Award.


*2. Record a 2 percent gain in traditional units and a net gain in total units including Learning for Life groups and posts.


*3. Record balanced membership growth in total Cub Scouts, total Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts, and total Venturers, with a gain in total membership including Learning for Life OR record a 2 percent gain in total Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts/Varsity Scouts, and Venturers, with a gain in total membership including Learning for Life.


*4. Operating fund revenue must exceed operating fund expense for the current fiscal year.


*5. HAve an active endowment committee that has secured additional new outright gifts for the current fiscal year.


6. Maintain approved staff size while increasing or maintaining the number of unit-serving executives (Note from DS -- a unit serving executive is one of the following: District Executive, Learning for Life Executive, Senior DE, Senior LFLE, District Director)


7. Have a current strategic long range plan (within last two years.)


8. Have a functioning key 3 (district chairman, district executive, district commissioner) in each district."


Now you have the requirements for quality council. I was incorrect earlier when I mentioned commissioner ratio as being part of quality council -- that falls under quality district.


The requirements are achieved or not achieved as of the end of the calendar year.



Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Create New...