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dennis99ss

tap out timing

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Once elected, there seems to be a strong push to be tapped out immediately, even at a ceremony at a meeting. However, why would you want to do this, if, in fact, OA is a life long membership, and an honor society. Why would you not want the tap out ceremony to be one that has pomp and circumstance, for the members being tapped out to start the oa experience in a big way, making it special.

 

The reason I ask, is that my son is up for a tap out ceremony, and I have voiced my thoughts that such should be done in a setting that has some meaning more than a simple meeting. I have seen the tap outs at summer camps, camporees, etc. and some are better and more moving than others. It would seem that, the better the ceremony, the more meaning such would have to the scout. As a result, I have suggested that the tap out take place at this years summer camp, where I understand the ceremony is special.

 

So, the question I have is, why is there some resistance to delaying the tap out..is it an OA thing, or is it simply the local lodge trying to increase numbers as soon as possible.

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It's absolutely local. I wouldn't assign the numbers reason to it. Keep asking though. Sounds like simple laziness to me.

BDPT00

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Call-outs (the term replaced "tap-out" quite a while back) are entirely optional. So your concern is not due to an "OA thing."

 

It also has nothing to do with wanting to "increase numbers." Candidates generally have up to a year to complete the inductions process. They can do that with or without having been called out. Conflicts with family vacations or other events often spring up, making the candidate delay until the next opportunity. It's not a conspiracy.

 

Some chapters and lodges prefer to perform the public recognition immediately; others want to wait. Some unit leaders have preferences. Your local leaders can best answer your questions.

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That reminds me of a question I had.

 

I've been gone from Scouting and OA for about 30 years. From reading some posts here, I gather that these days, the results of the election are simply "announced" at the end of the election.

 

Back in the day, the results were not announced, but the election took place a couple of hours before the tap-out ceremony, and the candidates did not know that they had been selected until they were tapped out.

 

I've forgotten a lot about OA, but the most vivid memories I have are of those ceremonies--the ones before I was eligible, the one where I was eligible but was not tapped out, and the one where I was tapped out. In most cases, there was a special "OA ring" where the ceremony was held, and it was a very special and memorable night, mostly because of the anticipation. I can still remember what it felt like to be tapped out. I forget right now whether I'm allowed to tell what the meaning of those taps is, so I won't. But I remember what they meant. And if my name had just been "announced", I doubt if I would remember that meaning.

 

It seems to me that a great deal has been lost if candidates are simply "announced" after the election. Is there any reason why this has changed, or is it just a local option that was done particularly well in my troop and lodge?

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A few things.

 

1) It's a Call Out, not a Tap Out. Taps out have not been allowed since approx 1989 b/c some folks view it as child abuse. Don't ask but that is what I've been told and read in a BSA publication.

 

2) As stated above there can be a variety of reasons for it. Do keep asking, but here are some reasons why I or the chapters I have been in have not doen a formal Call Out.

 

A) SM scheduled the election as late as possible in order to get an extra BOR or three done so that he could have more scouts eligible to be in the OA. Election was done between the formal Call Out Ceremony at fall camporee in Nov, and the Spring Ordeal in Mar.

 

B) SM had a new troop that wanted to send a scout to the Ordeal ASAP in order to motivate the rest of the troop. Election was done early in the Fall to get the scout to the Fall Ordeal (Sept) 2 months prior to formal Call Out.

 

and my personal favorite

 

C) Scout was out sick when the ceremony was done, so he missed the last Tap Out Ceremony his lodge. ( and yes that was me.)

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Clem,

 

Some SMs want the results announced ASAP, soem want the elections held in advance of the Call Out so that the family can be informed in advance and attend, and some SMs go the old school route and hold elections the weekend of our Call Out. Also some SMs want to know and others want it to be a surprise for them as well.

 

Me personally I like a mix: have the elections in advance, but don't tell anyone, except the ceremony team, the results until the Call Out.

 

One twist I have my ceremony team do is that the day of the Call Out, we get folks from the home troops to volunteer to pick their candidates out from the audience and present the candidate to teh Chief. The Arrowmen get the names just before the campfire starts, so they know about 10-15 minutes in advance.

 

As for the tap outs, yes I missed out on that. I though the lawsuit issue was a Scouting urban legend, desptie the sources who told me, until I read it in a BSA publication. beleive it or not, some states viewed it as a form of child abuse.

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One of the stupidest things the Boy Scouts of America ever did was eliminate the Tap-Out.

 

I will remember that moment of the Mulholland District, San Fernando Valley Council BSA, spring Camporee in 1970 to my last day.

 

No namby-pamby little boy "Johnny, you've been selected..." for this no longer eligible to vote for age youth member of the Order of the Arrow. Bring the hand down on the shoulder... KA-WHUMPF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Ask me how I really feel. I dare you...

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So John, how do you really feel about it?

 

Seriously though, i would give ya the citation, but I forgot that I loaned a good bit of my collection to a local museum doing a BSA exhibit. Just remembered when i came home and started looking for the book, when I realized the bookcases are empty.

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My son missed summer camp the year he got elected into OA. He never had a call out ceremony, in fact, his SM never even told him he had been elected. He received a mailing from the Lodge in late Fall asking if he was going to attend the Fall Ordeal. Surprise! He had one year from the date of his election to undergo his Ordeal, or he would be out of luck, and have to be elected again. He had to scramble to get his Ordeal in before he timed out.

 

 

 

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When and how the elections are announced is entirely up to the scoutmaster.

 

I have been to call-outs at summer camps and district camporees. Both can be very long and troublesome for controlling younger scouts with very short attention spans. For the last several years, our troop has had its call-outs after the spring Court of Honor. We have our own ceremony team with costumes, drums, torches, etc. It has several advantages in that it is fairly short, intimate and parents can attend without traveling to camp where little Johnny sees them and says, "Hey why are my mom and dad here?".

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I was called out, instead of tapped out. I didn't feel short-changed because no one slammed their hand down on my shoulder. I would think that'd hurt the tapper more than the recipient, after X number of repetitions ...

 

In my day, I did countless elections and call-out ceremonies, as a chapter elections team member and lodge summer camp chief. We always deferred to the SMs. If they wanted the candidates and troop told right away, we announced it; if they wanted to tell the candidates themselves, that was fine; if they wanted to wait until summer camp or the next district camporee for a formal call-out ceremony, that was kosher, too.

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that's an advantage we have for out district, OA leads the camp intothe campfire circle, lit the fire, and do the call out. Lasts less that 10 minutes tops.

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Sadly, the move to holding call outs did not take with our chapter. The boys still do tapouts, but without the physical abuse that was sometimes prevalent in the glory days. They do touch the candidates, but it's more welcoming. Now the drums, the lone dancer, and the runners... well, that makes it all worthwhile.

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Kahits,

I know traditions are hard to break, especially when the reason for stopping them sounds stupid and there is a common sense approach to fixing the problem, but I'd be very leary of doing Tap Outs. Don't have the publication in my possession at the moment, those books are in the attic where oldest son can't go nosing through them, but I read in one BSA publication that NO physical contact is permitted at all by national, and they included in their example tapping with a fan. Don't remember if it's in the Guide to Inductions, the proposed Call Out Ceremony that national came out with in the 90s, or oneof the operation reports, but it is written and was distributed.

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