RE: Opinions on Patrol(Den) vs. Troop(Pack)

[FScouter]

In response to ScouterPaul -

Our Boy Scout troop has had issues with Popcorn and fundraising in general. We have an account set up for each boy, and part of profits goes to the boy account and the rest to the troop. All the funds are kept in the troop bank account, with a separate ledger sheet for the boy's accounts. The issue that always arises is how to make the split between the boy account and the troop account.

 

It was very geneous that an individual bought $1,000 worth of popcorn out of his own pocket. But that should be discouraged. Some people would believe that using their own money allows them to circumvent policy, or puts them in charge. Better to have the pack write the $1,000 check.

 

In any case, I would suggest that at least a portion of whatever money they raise go for general pack purposes. We can't all run our own programs.

 

 

[evmori]

I have always viewed fundraisers as a Troop or Pack function, not a Patrol or Den function. In my Troop, we use fundraisers as a means for Scouts to earn their summer camp fees. If a patrol needs new gear, it comes from the Troop fund. Each Scout pays $5/month in dues to help offset this cost. Now, if a Scouts earns enough $$$ from fundraisers to cover summer camp & has $$$ left over, it can be put toward dues or camping trips.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

[ScouterPaul]

Thanks FScouter and Ed

I will be moving up to Boy Scouts this summer and will become an ASM. The issue of how much of the fundraiser to "assign" to the boy and how much goes to the pack or troop is a question I can't come to grips with. Thrifty is part of the Scout Law and we teach our boys to "earn their way". Is 10% the normal percentage? If summer camp costs $150 and popcorn is the fundraiser then the Scout would have to sell $4,500 worth of popcorn to earn the $150 this doesn't seem right to me. Should the percentage going to the Scout be on a graduated scale? Example: If the units budget is $200 per scout then the scout would receive 10% up to $600 of popcorn sales and 25% on any amounts above $600.

[eisely]

Many troops operate accounts for funds earned by the youth through fund raisers. Personally I think it is a good idea. Four suggestions regarding this.

 

1. Keep the boy's portion generous. It should be available to the boy for any scout related purpose.

 

2. Keep it simple. Sliding scales are a complication that don't contribute much to the whole program.

 

3. Adopt a clear policy that unused funds revert to the unit if and when the boy leaves the unit.

 

4. Make sure that your treasurer is up to the task.

[evmori]

When we hold the popcorn sale, the Troop gets 39% of the gross sales. The Scouts get 75% of the 39% & the Troop fund gets 25%.

 

When we hold our hoagie/pizza sales, the Scouts get $1.00 for each hoagie & pizza sold & the Troop gets the difference which is between $0.50 & $0.75 per item sold.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

 

 

[FScouter]

As you can see, there is no "normal" percentage or method to split.

 

In our troop the popcorn split has evolved:

Year 1 - The boy got all the profit, in cash. He turned in the popcorn cost and kept all the profits.

 

Year 2 - Boy accounts were set up. 90% of the profit went to the boy account, 10% to the troop. The boy could use his account for any Scouting related purpose.

 

Year 3 - The split was changed to 50/50. "Scouting purpose" was defined to mean anything that can be purchased at the Scout Shop.

 

Year 4 - It got to be inconvenient to disburse funds everytime a boy wanted to buy some item from the shop. He either wanted the money first, or would buy something and have no receipt to turn in. We changed the rule and now the boy account can be used only for the troop outing fee, summer camp, and for the annual re-charter fee. Personally I'd like the boy to be able to use it for any Scouting purpose, if the committee could figure out a practical way to do the bookkeeping.

 

Whatever you decide, I'd suggest you put it in writing and have the committee vote on it. Eisley's suggestion about the funds reverting when the boy leaves is important.

[KoreaScouter]

Ed Mori's right: there's language in the Pack and Troop Committee guidebooks that explains that money earning projects are to be undertaken at the Pack and Troop levels, not dens and patrols -- the Unit Money Earning Application has the little check boxes on it for the type of unit, and there aren't boxes for dens or patrols -- only Packs and Troops. National can best explain why, but I suppose it has to do with the notion that a Pack or Troop project will have the oversight of the Committee and CO, and will be more likely to comply with BSA rules on these projects than if a den or patrol went off on their own.

 

I think the best way to apportion funds from projects is to spell it out in Pack/Troop by-laws so there's no misunderstandings. Each unit can make it as simple or as complicated as they want to and their Treasurer is capable to handle. But, as long as it's logical, fair, and everybody understands it, there's way more than one way to skin this cat. If your unit doesn't have apportion language in their by-laws, or doesn't have by-laws at all, you have to determine each time you do a project whether you will apportion and how you will apportion. Not optimal in my opinion, but it works.

 

I'm not sure I agree 100% with the "funds revert to the Troop" argument. Your demographics are probably different from ours. In stable troops in the US, when a Scout leaves the Troop, he's more likely to be leaving Scouting altogether than moving to a new Troop (please correct me if I'm wrong). Here, when a Scout leaves the troop, it's because he's transferring with his family, and is staying in Scouting. And, our turnover is guaranteed and frequent, and sometimes short notice, too. So, a Scout could participate in Summer Camp projects, build up a healthy account, then get transferred before summer camp. Now what? I think there are other options, to include Scout Stuff, or sending a check to the next troop's treasurer for his Scout account there, or giving his Scout account funds to his parents with the proviso it should be used for Scouting activities. Moreover, especially for us, if the funds revert to the troop, there's less incentive to participate for the Scouts within six months or so of moving. Realize that's our reality, may not be yours, so different solutions work for different units...

 

 

[andrews]

If the boy doesn't have the receipt, that is his problem, not the troop/pack's. Don't drop that part off just because the boys can be irresponsible. Just stress that you have to have a receipt. That could also serve as a good character lesson, making them remember better.

 

Brad

[eisely]

KoreaScouter,

 

Your circumstances are quite different from troops stateside. In your situation equity and motivation suggests a different policy about reversion of funds. You are right. In most communities in the states, troop membership is fairly stable and when a boy leaves a troop, it is usually because he is leaving scouting altogether or going off to college.

[yarrow]

We are having a little heartburn right at the moment because we do not have a clear policy in the bylaws concerning the money left in accounts. We were trying to clear up some accounts still on the list from scouts that have been gone a long time. And these we agreed should be reabsorbed by the troop. Some were negative, some were positive balances by it all amounted to not much. There were however 3 accounts of boys that recently left within the past year.

 

One boy is $50-60 in the hole and we feel that he should send a check to the troop. We allow some float which may get us in trouble.

 

Another boy's parents have asked for the money in his account and the SM feels that if it was earned as part of a "troop" fund raiser, even if the individual boy had some of it put in his account that the troop now should get it all back. I happen to agree on this one but I am sure that one could argue that the money left is the boy's deposited by the parents if they ever put any in, and that any other activities came out of "troop" earned individual account money. Hope I'm not losing you.

 

Also one boy moved and has $200 plus money left in his account which may have been accumulated over years. Our records are not what they should be, so take note and see that yours are, and that you have a clear policy on the monies left when a scout leaves like 6 months to reclaim money and with a receipts such as cancelled checks.

 

What a headache.

[evmori]

yarrow,

I feel that if a Scout earns money as part of a Troop/Pack fundraiser and the Scout gets a portion of the funds earned credited to his Troop/Pack account, that money is to be used for Troop/Pack purposes like summer camp, dues, rechartering fees, camping trip fees, etc. This isn't a "savings account" for the Scout or his family to draw on when they need money. Also, if the Scout transfers to another unit, the funds in his Troop/Pack account should be transfered to the treasurer of his new Troop/Pack. The funds should not be given directly to the Scout or his family to give to the new treasuer.

 

I agree that the Scout who is in the hole $50-$60 should be required to make ammends, unless there is a hardship in the family. If that is the case, this needs to be dealt with privately with the Scout & his family and on a case by case basis.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

 

Hey, I'm a senior member! When do I get my AARP card!

[FScouter]

This old thread has more discussion about how to split profits from money-earning events.

[dancinfox]

The troop general fund keeps 50 cents of every popcorn item for the general fund. The rest of the profit goes into the Scouts account. When we do our fundraisers, Spag and Pancake Breakfast, we have the Scouts sell tickets. The Scout gets 1.00 for every ticket sold and any remaining profit from the dinner and breakfast gets divided up amoung the Scouts that worked the event. The Scouts parents, and siblings who are old enough to work add their hours worked to the Scouts. We total the hours, divide into the remaining profit after ticket sales are deducted and figure a hourly amount, then multiply that by the total hours the Scout and family worked. Seems to work real well for us.

Dancin