Eugene Evans (of Evans v. Berkeley) arrested for molesting Sea Scouts

[evmori 11]

Guess it's OK for ACLU executives to molest kids but not OK for BSA volunteers!(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Lisabob 13]

hrm? Sure it is still early and I'm not through my allotment of coffee yet Ed, but I don't recall seeing ANYBODY suggest what you've indicated. No of course it isn't ok for ACLU execs, BSA volunteers (or execs) or anybody else to do that! Get real!

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Beavah, part of the two-deep leadership policy is to reduce the opportunity for incidents as is alleged in the Evans case.

[evmori 11]

Yes it is Merlyn. Maybe the ACLU should have the same policy, huh?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Same reason, Ed.(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

[Lisabob 13]

Ed, I'm not understanding your perspective here, unless perhaps it is simply to bait ACLU supporters with spurious arguments? The ACLU is not a youth organization; the BSA is. The BSA has a 2-deep leadership policy in place specifically because we are an organization where adults and youth work together, often becoming mentors and role models for youth. Although I can't be certain, I'd be willing to bet that the 2 deep policy was not adhered to in the Evans case. But what this has to do with the ACLU or the price of tea in China...I think you're just trying to get under someone's skin here and I don't see how it is useful in this context, sorry.

 

Similarly, Merlyn, just because the BSA *has* a 2 deep policy does not mean that all adults are going to follow it. Some people will break the rules no matter what those rules are, and reasonably speaking, the BSA national office does not and cannot oversee the behavior of every adult volunteer in the program. If anything, that's the charter organization's job.

 

More's the shame, but I really think 2-deep leadership is a matter of BSA covering its tracks. When cases like this arise, sad as they are, the BSA can point straight to its training material and say "hey, we expect leaders to follow this 2 deep policy, and if they do, there shouldn't be much chance of abuse occurring." If people don't follow policies though - what do you want BSA National to do? Swoop down from Irving and take over every pack, troop, team, crew, and ship in the land? Not very likely.

[evmori 11]

Same reason as what, Merlyn?

 

No the ACLU isn't a youth organization but they seem bent on making life miserable for the BSA yet, fails to police its own. Did ya read what I posted?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

A blessed Christmas to all

 

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

Didn't say that Ed.

 

Lisa, I also suspect the two-deep leadership rules weren't followed (though I haven't been able to find any reports on whether Evans was sometimes the only adult along on outings), but I would also like to find out if any other adults are registered with that Sea Scout ship.

[evmori 11]

Didn't say what, Merlyn? Seems we are having trouble connecting!

[Merlyn_LeRoy 72]

I have already answered your question, Ed.

[FScouter 24]

Ed, knock it off.

[acco40 95]

Just to muddy the waters a little bit ...

 

I think people confuse "no one on one contact" with "two deep leadership." No one on one contact between a youth and adult is always the rule (unless their is a minor/guardian relationship). Two deep leadership is rule for outings (and only some).

 

As a Scouter, there are many, many times when in a Scouting role with youth I do not have two-deep leadership but I never have one on one contact For example, I recently held a Scoutmaster conference at a local coffee shop. No other Scout leader (that I knew of) was present but in a radius of 20 feet were numerous other adults (general public) near the Scout and I.

 

Is keelhauling (keilhalen) banned in G2SS? Maybe an option for Mr. Evans? :-)

[Peterb 10]

I was in his troop in the late 70's. He always discouraged parents from getting involved. If he needed adult help, it was always "Mates", or 18-25 year olds that had graduated from his troop.(This message has been edited by Peterb)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, to summarize:

 

The Teton Council should not be terminating the employment of people just over undocumented rumors about what they did back when they were high school sophomores. (BTW, I note that the Idaho Supreme Court just remanded the civil case with a firm ruling against the plaintiffs, who have now settled for a reasonable amount, so the courts aren't necessarily finding a huge amount of liability here either). So that whole "the BSA is evil" argument has gone away.

 

The BSA didn't have any supervisory responsibility over Evans, and the abuse (probably most if not all of it) seems to have happened at non-Scouting events and private meetings, or after the end of Scouting meetings. And even then, two-deep leadership wouldn't apply. So that whole "the BSA is evil" argument has gone away.

 

We now recognize that court records are sealed only with the consent of the victims, and for da victim's protection. And that once sealed, the BSA is subject to the non-disclosure agreement and can't be usin' the stuff for commissions and whatnot. So that whole "the BSA is evil" argument has gone away.

 

The BSA's YP program, while not perfect, has more safeguards than many other organizations that have paid staff (let alone volunteers) doing youth work. The BSA moved immediately to revoke Evans' membership. And the BSA YP program is apparently what led the whistleblower scout to "resist and report." So da BSA really doesn't look evil at all, does it?

 

Could we do better? Always! One abused kid is too many. But it sure seems like all this foo has been just to push an agenda, rather than bein' valid criticism or really concerned with da welfare of kids. Has anybody looked at the molestation rates just for youth soccer coaches? Seems like there's twice as many reports for them as Scouting.

 

Beavah

 

[MarkS 11]

Merlyn said, "I know it's impossible to eliminate 100% of the child abuse."

 

Merlyn said, "I'm criticizing the BSA for their lax youth protection which lead to the victimization of children."

 

Merlyn said, "I also suspect the two-deep leadership rules weren't followed (though I haven't been able to find any reports on whether Evans was sometimes the only adult along on outings)..."

 

This is confusing.(This message has been edited by MarkS)